Do I Want a New Camcorder?

[chris319]

I have a Sony AX53. It's an OK camcorder but ...

... the image stabilization feature has an annoying artifact. When the camera is panned it tends to "overshoot", i.e. the optics keep moving even though the camera itself is not moving. Apparently this is due to the image stabilization compensating for the physical movement of the camera. Unfortunately this "feature" does not appear to be defeatable. In addition, there is no control over zoom speed. The zoom control is just an on-off switch and there is no provision for setting the zoom speed.

Does anyone know of a camcorder with the following characteristics?

- No image stabilization or defeatable stabilization

- Provision for an external mic via a 3.5 mm or XLR jack

- Bit rate >= 50 Mbps

- PCM audio

- Zoom speed control

- Eyepiece-style viewfinder (useful in direct sunlight)

- I have no need for 4k. It would be nice if it shot 720p natively.

[pepegot1]

I have a Canon HF G60 which looks like it meets your requirements. It has image stabilization (two modes of stabilization) that can be turned off, though It works fairly well. Picture quality is excellent and it has a one inch sensor. I turn stabilization off when on a tripod. A wifi remote is included.

[chris319]

Thanks for the tip. The HF G60 is $1,699 at B&H which is affordable.

I own a Canon HF G40. The problem is, when I shoot MP4 at 720p the bit rate is only 8 Mbps which is not very good. When I shoot trains, the ballast (rocks under the rails) is pretty fuzzy.

The AX53 doesn't do 720p but does 1080p and the bit rate is 50 Mbps; the pictures are noticeably sharper, which is why I bought it.

The HF G60 likewise does only 8 Mbps at 720p so no win there.

[chris319]

What is a good bitrate for 720p?
between 3,500 and 5,000 kbps
For 720p video at 60 frames per second, the bitrate should be between 3,500 and 5,000 kbps.

Is it unrealistic to expect a bit rate of 35 - 50 Mbps at 720p/59.94?

[ConsumerDV]

Is it unrealistic to expect a bit rate of 35 - 50 Mbps at 720p/59.94?

Consumer camcorders have been generally shy on 720p options, preferring to offer 1080i and 1080p, and lately 4K and higher resolutions.

For 50 Mbps you can have 1080p60 4:2:0 8-bit with AVC, or 4Kp60 4:2:2 10-bit with HEVC.

EDIT: Or you can buy a used Sony EX. For example, you can have the PMW-EX3 for well less than a thousand, it shoots in MPEG HD422, which is 50 Mbps MPEG-2 4:2:2 both 1080i30 and 720p60. But you will need a real SxS card for recording in 50 Mbits mode.

[chris319]

Consumer camcorders have been generally shy on 720p options, preferring to offer 1080i and 1080p, and lately 4K and higher resolutions.

Yes, I'm seeing that as I browse camcorder specs.

The thing to do might be to shoot at 1080p and use ffmpeg to make it 720.

[ConsumerDV]

Do you need 720p for some specific reason? Are you authoring to BD? BD players have been supporting 1080p60 for quite some time.

[chris319]

Do you need 720p for some specific reason?

Broadcast.

[ConsumerDV]

Yeah, they don't make it easy. It seems that the NX100 can do 720p60 @ 24 Mbps AND it can do LPCM; considering that AVC is about twice more effective than MPEG-2 it should be good enough It is not 4:2:2 though.

The PXW-Z150 can do XAVC HD (1280 x 720)@59.94p, 50p, 50Mbps and MPEG HD422 (1280 x 720) @59.94p, 50p, 50Mbps - awesome camcorder!

JVC GY-HM170 can do MPEG-2 720p60 @ 35 Mbit/s in 4:2:0 (basically, XDCAM EX). I've heard its image stabilizer is not that good. Figures, I owned several other JVC camcorders from 1994 to 2010, all have crappy image stabilizers.

Back in the glory days of HD many broadcasters were very strict about submissions, 50 Mbps 4:2:2 was the minimum, but then it was MPEG-2. I think many of them have relaxed their requirements, considering the garbage quality they send out nowadays...

[pchan]

Depends on what is the purpose. As a tourist, point and shoot, and take video, then a point and shoot camera is good enough. Just carry one instead of two. Most digital camera can take video in AVCHD format. Camcorder still picture can never beat a digital camera due sensor size. Notice that there are not many camcorder in the market now. Most use goPro.

This video was taken in South Korea about 10 years ago using Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX20V.

[rrats]

Get a more expensive point 'n shoot.

[realspeed]

I have a Sony AX53. It's an OK camcorder but ...

... the image stabilization feature has an annoying artifact. When the camera is panned it tends to "overshoot", i.e. the optics keep moving even though the camera itself is not moving. Apparently this is due to the image stabilization compensating for the physical movement of the camera. Unfortunately this "feature" does not appear to be defeatable. In addition, there is no control over zoom speed. The zoom control is just an on-off switch and there is no provision for setting the zoom speed.
Does anyone know of a camcorder with the following characteristics?

- No image stabilization or defeatable stabilization

- Provision for an external mic via a 3.5 mm or XLR jack

- Bit rate >= 50 Mbps

- PCM audio

- Zoom speed control

- I have no need for 4k. It would be nice if it shot 720p natively.

I had that sony A53 camcorder and got rid of it. The problem i had it the camcorder controlled everything or so it seems. So I went back to Panasonic and Bought the HC-X1500camcorder instead. Then added the handle for it with XLR ports. What a difference, choice of formats MOV MP4 or AVCHD in 4K or can shoot in 1080p. OK it is a 4k camcorder with 2 SD slots and built in ND filters. better image stablisation can be switch on or off. has extrnl mike jack and earphone one as well. With the handle the microphone works only with the XLR ports and cuts out the body mic port


If I may can I suggest you take a look at it at least as I think it will meet your requirements.
Got mine from here being the least expensive retailer

https://hprestonmedia.co.uk/products/panasonic-hc-x1500e-lightest-4k-professional-camc...kaAnruEALw_wcB

[chris319]

Panasonic HC-X1500

That looks interesting; will definitely have a look.

What kind of zoom speed control does it have?

I see it does PCM audio but only MOV.

In MOV it does >= 50 Mbps.

In FHD it does 1920 x 1080 @ 50 - 200 Mbps.

[realspeed]

Depends if your talking about optical or digital zoom this camcorder has both . Usually speed is controlled by pressure on a rocker switch. digital zoom is normal-x2-x5-x10 times depending on choice via an on body button which is programmable anyway. However if using the zoon control on the handle that is a fixed speed. even has super slow digital zoom or fast zoom in digital.
another option is controlling it via one of the rings in the front behind the lens hood.

What I will say is forget the consumer camcorders, this is a different league completely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4_28TQyvV0

here is the manual on it to give some idea of what it offers

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/hdw/oi/X2000/HC-X1500_X2000_DVQP2152YA_eng.pdf

I did have to get an XLR cable for the mic when used on the handle.

Don't know where you are but anywhere near East Sussex you can try out mine here

OH mine came as version 1.2 so down loaded the latest 1.3

[chris319]

Optical zoom.

Usually speed is controlled by pressure on a rocker switch.

Is this how the optical zoom works?

I am in Hollywood, California, USA.

[ConsumerDV]

I had that sony A53 camcorder and got rid of it. Bought the HC-X1500 camcorder instead. Then added the handle for it with XLR ports.

So you replaced a 1/2.5-inch camcorder with a 1/2.5-inch camcorder. $1600 for the camcorder, another $300 for the XLR handle. How is low light? Some say it is not great. The NX100 has 1-inch sensor; with an integrated handle and XLR it costs $1500. They say it is very good in low light.

The NX100 does not shoot in 4K. It can record in AVCHD, DV and XAVC S 50Mbps.

Recording formats in NTSC:

• XAVC S (1920 x 1080) of 59.94p, 29.97p, 23.98pa 50 Mbps
• AVCHD (1920 x 1080) of 59.94p, PS mode (28 Mbps)
• AVCHD (1920 x 1080) from 59.94i / 29.97p / 23.98p, FX (24 Mbps) mode, FH (17 Mbps) mode
• AVCHD (1440 x 1080) of 59.94i, HQ (9 Mbps) mode, LP (5Mbps)
• AVCHD (1280 x 720) of 59.94p, FX (24 Mbps) mode, FH (17 Mbps) mode, HQ (9 Mbps) mode
• DV (720 x 480) of 59.94ia 25 Mbps

PXW-X70 is an older 1-inch model, but still can be purchased ($1400 at B&H used, but very clean) has the following modes:

XAVC-L @ 50 Mbit/s
1920 x 1080i: 59.94/50
1920 x 1080p: 59.94/50/29.97/25/23.98
1280 x 720p: 59.94/50

XAVC-L @ 35 Mbit/s
1920 x 1080i: 59.94/50
1920 x 1080p: 59.94/50/29.97/25/23.98

XAVC-L @ 25 Mbit/s
1920 x 1080i: 59.94/50

AVCHD
1920 x 1080i: 59.94/50
1920 x 1080p: 59.94/50/29.97/23.98/25
1280 x 720p: 59.94/50

DV
720x480i: 59.94
720x576i: 50

For $500 software key purchase: MPEG-2 Long GOP 422 10-bit 50Mbps (1920x1080) at 50p/60p/50i/60i/ 30p/25p/24p, 25Mbps (1920x1080) at 50i/60i

[realspeed]

Optical zoom.

Usually speed is controlled by pressure on a rocker switch.

Is this how the optical zoom works?

I am in Hollywood, California, USA.

yes is the short answer or by the ring behind the lens hood. Obviously there are alternatives as already mentioned, I went back to Panasonic because my old panasonic did me well for 10 years. Also the one I mentioned the HC-X1500 has the option of having a handle or not I don't now about other makes.

Never been to Holiywood but been to the USA a few times and had a great time. Lot of things so different from us in the UK such as you all driving on the wrong side of the road. AS a bye the bye my wife and I are off this year on holiday to Norway- Fareo Islands and then on to Iceland. Having travelled extensively to so many countries Norway takes some beating having been there before.

[chris319]

realspeed:

Have you ever checked the levels from your HC-X1500? Are they digital 16 - 235 or 0 - 255?

[realspeed]

realspeed:

Have you ever checked the levels from your HC-X1500? Are they digital 16 - 235 or 0 - 255?

see the link below and in post 13

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/hdw/oi/X2000/HC-X1500_X2000_DVQP2152YA_eng.pdf

[realspeed]

[QUOTE=realspeed;2654401]

realspeed:

Have you ever checked the levels from your HC-X1500? Are they digital 16 - 235 or 0 - 255?

are you talking about when using low cut on or off, or do you mean using the channel limiters or the mic imiter switch . then again on the handle there is

[IMG][/IMG]

in post 13 there is a link to the manual. That is the only help I can give you .Sorry


[Attachment 64386 - Click to enlarge]
I used one or these under the handle to keep cables out of the way as shown in the photo

[realspeed]

repeat post

[4kblurayguru]

Get used pmw 200. Will do 720p 60fps MPEG2 50Mbps

https://pro.sony/en_CZ/products/handheld-camcorders/pmw-200

never use cheap consumer for broadcast, always go 3 chip

check ebay or known camera stores for used. B&H, Adorama etc.

limit spending to 1k

other 3chip camcorder can do 720p panasonic, JVC
check their discontinued models and search for used on craigslist or similiar

[ConsumerDV]

Get used pmw 200.

Nice camcorder, but SxS cards are expensive: new 64 GB SxS Sony-branded cards are $370 at B&H, while 64 GB SD cards are $20 for SanDisk U3, or even cheaper for less fancy ones. There are adapters for SD cards, but AFAIK Sony cameras would not record 422 @ 50 Mbit/s onto SD card in an SxS adapter.

[larioso]

My AX700 has a setting to turn off Steadyshot, and sure AX53 would have too.
I can even assign it to a button on camera on/off.

I think AX53 also has ability to record two formats, there one is 720p MP4 to upload directly, kind of.
So native 720p is there too, as I see it. Sony call it Proxy Rec Mode for second format.

PCM audio also seen listed for audio.

Maybe I missed something what you are aiming for?

[chris319]

I have had my eye on the Canon XF 100 for a while but haven't picked one up. Does anyone have any experience or opinions on it?

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/camcorders/professional/xf100

I had another Canon XF series camcorder and the lens was huge. All of that glass weighed a bloody ton, not something you would want to run 'n' gun with.

There is also this, but it lacks an eyepiece-style viewfinder:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1401512-REG/blackmagic_design_pocket_cinema_camera_4k.html

At my former TV station (now retired) we used to put GoPro's on the air, but for live shots and real news coverage we used Sony professional camcorders costing well over $10,000, too rich for my blood. I haven't checked the features of the latest GoPro models.

Regarding audio, I use one of these to get an E-V 635 N/D into the 3.5 mm jack of my AX53. Highly recommended. I have one of those furry windscreens for it, also highly recommended.

https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/accessories/rp325

[realspeed]

I have been giving some though on the best way to carry the Panasonic HC-X1500 all day as that i might have to do soon on our holiday. So best i can come up with so I dont have my hand through the strap all the time is using a Peak design plate
[Attachment 65663 - Click to enlarge]

with it facing this way the camcorder lies flat across the chest and can be quick released with the peakdesign setup. I had thought about using a threaded loop fixing but the camcorder goes everywhere no control on how it is carried. the button clips with the cord I have used on far heavier camera gear than this with no problem the breaking strain is far more then ever needed

[realspeed]

recent trip to Iceland Norway and farao islands, so had a good chance of trying out this Panasonic HC-x1500 camcorder hand held. Above is an example of a waterfall and zoom capabilities in optical zoom.
Microphone used Azden SMX-30V additional furry deadcat over supply foam

Puffins in Iceland, those with cameras didn't even get any photos, too far away (no sound) + movement so no photos

[chris319]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but in 2022 I should be thinking about HLG/HDR which I have yet to wrap my head around.

At the moment there is the Sony AX-700 and I don't know what else, if anything. It's about $1,900. Then I would need a new 10-bit graphics card and a HDR monitor.

This looks interesting: https://www.markertek.com/product/vz-215led-hdr/viewz-vz-215led-hdr-21-5-inch-broadcas...di-hdmi-vga-av

1,000 nits, whee!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1044784-REG/blackmagic_design_bdlkstudio4k_deck...studio_4k.html

There goes the money!

[realspeed]

I got myself a Dell ultrasharp 27" 4K USB monitor ( U2720Q). On Amazon UK quote £589.98 and well worth considering.
watching playback for my Panasonic HC-X1500 is as if actually being there in real life

[chris319]

I got myself a Dell ultrasharp 27" 4K USB monitor ( U2720Q). On Amazon UK quote £589.98 and well worth considering.
watching playback for my Panasonic HC-X1500 is as if actually being there in real life

That goes up to 350 nits (cd/m2). Should be good enough for broadcast HLG.

This is a weird question, but can you control the brightness/black level independently of the overall backlight? I got an LG TV set which does this. I can set the black level totally independently of other controls and set proper black levels using the pluge on SMPTE bars. I'm totally happy with this. It replaced a consumer monitor where all you had control over was the backlight.

This looks attractive. 250 nits and the price is right.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1269687-REG/lg_24ud58_b_24_4k_freesync.html