Hauppauge HD PVR 2 issues

[Brad]

The attached clip was captured by HDMI using Capture4ME at fairly high settings and the maximum bitrate.

The fields appear to be misaligned, or something. Even the stationary channel bug looks interlaced. Any ideas?

[jagabo]

The lower field is above the upper field. Use FieldSwap in VirtualDub, SwapFields() in AviSynth. Many MJPEG codecs have that setting too. Original on left, after VirtualDub FieldSwap on right:



Is that TS file exactly what comes out of the device? Or did you reencode it?

[jman98]

You could always try ShowBiz that came with your device and see if it does better. I don't know of any compelling reason to pay for Capture4ME when ShowBiz is good enough for most people. The official website shows none of the Advanced Settings options so without being able to look at them, it's impossible to know if this program has anything going for it other than maybe being easier to use than ShowBiz. What you are seeing could just be a software bug in Capture4ME.

However, most of us don't do HDMI captures at all because it's too difficult to get an unencrypted HDMI signal. You should probably explain exactly how you pulled this off and what your source is as it could be that Capture4ME is fine and the real issue is with your HDMI signal.

Finally, just as an FYI thing to keep in mind as it doesn't apply to your sample but it's something you should know, the HD PVR, HD PVR 2 and Colossus are all known to have audio sync issues if recording directly to MP4 format so unless this ever gets fixed you should not do that. Recording to TS, like you did, seems to work best with the card according to my tests.

[jagabo]

I believe rcTVCap, made for the original HD PVR, works with the HD PVR 2 too.
http://blog.arogan.com/2008/06/hauppauge-hd-pvr-model-1212.html

[Brad]

Is that TS file exactly what comes out of the device?

Yes. I recorded a 5 second clip with the software and uploaded it directly.

You should probably explain exactly how you pulled this off and what your source is as it could be that Capture4ME is fine and the real issue is with your HDMI signal.

It's no secret (anymore). I used a specific HDMI splitter to remove the HDCP encryption. The HDMI signal coming from the passthrough output of the Hauppauge into my TV is perfectly fine. Source is my Motorola cable DVR. DCT-6412 I believe.

jman98, thank you for the info. I wasn't aware that anything called ShowBiz came with the device as I just ignored the CD included (as I always do) and headed to the website.

I will try those two apps.

[jagabo]

Is that TS file exactly what comes out of the device?

Yes. I recorded a 5 second clip with the software and uploaded it directly.

I've been thinking about getting a HD PVR 2 but this is a fatal flaw if it's present in all interlaced caps. What's the point of having a hardware encoder if you have to fix and reencode everything it captures? Have you checked for firmware updates? Maybe a swap fields option in the drivers?

[jman98]

I can't rule out that it's his software or his HDMI encryption stripping. I've done interlaced captures and I don't have this issue, but then again I only capture via component.

1) Install and use ShowBiz. See if it makes a difference.
2) If ShowBiz makes no difference, then let's see if it's HDMI related. Use Capture4ME but use the component outputs from your video source to the HD PVR 2 and see what you get.

[jman98]

One more thing - When you install ShowBiz, do NOT update it after you start it if it prompts you to do so. The updates take away the ability to set the bit rate in exchange for turning on a few other options. You don't need the updates for now to do your testing and it might be better for testing to just leave them off. I refuse to update my version of ShowBiz because it's a deal breaker for me to not be able to set the bit rate to whatever I want.

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind to post a screen grab of the Advanced Settings part of Capture4ME? I'd like to see what options it has.

[Brad]

It exposes the same H264 Encoder DirectShow controls as ShowBiz does, with the Level, Latency, and stuff like that. Missing are the other tabs that ShowBiz offers.

HDMI into ShowBiz produces the same result, as expected since this is a hardware thing. I will try to find some cables to do component.

EDIT: Can't get YPbPr working with my cable box, and the back of my PS3 is not accessible.

[jagabo]

Yes, since all the capture and encoding is done inside the PVR, and all the computer is doing is displaying the image and saving the compressed stream to a file, the swapped fields problem must be within the HD PVR 2. I tried searching a bit to see if anyone else has mentioned the problem but I didn't find anything. Maybe if you bring this up with Hauppauge tech support they can come out with a firmware fix. It will probably take a few months because they probably don't have anyone in-house that knows anything about video and will have to go to the chipset manufacturer for a fix.

Are the 1080p and 720p captures ok?

[Brad]

1080p from PS3 looks amazing; haven't tried 720p.

[Brad]

The compression quality is very good at the high settings I tested (maxed out). Nearly transparent to the source. There is a color shift and a slight horizontal shift. Both may be caused by the DCT-6412, not sure yet.

The below Invasion screencaps employ SwapFields to workaround the problem I am having.

Firewire 15Mbps MPEG-2 vs HD PVR 2 14Mbps MPEG-4 AVC (not respectively; they are jumbled)

[Attachment 16511 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 16512 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 16513 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 16518 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 16514 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 16515 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 16516 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 16522 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 16517 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 16520 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 16519 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 16521 - Click to enlarge]

Color bars on PS3 at 1080i:

[jagabo]

The compression quality is very good at the high settings I tested (maxed out). Nearly transparent to the source.

There is a lot of macroblocking in those caps. What was the source? Blu-ray or cable TV? If cable the blocks might be in the source.

There is a color shift

Remember there are two ways YUV can get to the screen in RGB, rec.601 and rec.709. HD usually uses rec.709, SD usually uses rec.601. But it's possible to use either in any particular video. You have to be sure your player and screen caps use the right method, otherwise you will get color shifts -- most visible in bright reds and greens.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/329866-incorrect-collor-display-in-video-playback?p...=1#post2045830

[Brad]

Shaw Cable. I chose a macroblocky source on purpose to see how much they transfer over.

[jagabo]

Shaw Cable. I chose a macroblocky source on purpose to see how much they transfer over.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Is there any chance you could capture from a good Blu-ray disc, and then rip the disc and compare the two?

[Brad]

Chapter 10 of Taken 2.

Taken 2 - Blu-ray to PS3 to HD PVR 2.ts (494.3 MB)
See split-RAR attachment below.

I don't, however, have the Blu-ray. It was a rental and I neglected to rip the chapter.

[jagabo]

Thanks for the sample cap. There was quite a bit of macroblocking in dark areas. I guess that's expected for such a noisy, high motion source and only ~14 Mb/s with a hardware encoder. So just to be sure I understood what you did: that was an un-recompressed rip of the Blu-ray disc playing on a Blu-ray player? And was the player set to output 24p?

If I get an HD PVR 2, my main use will be to capture cable TV from my computer (I have a SiliconDust HDHomerun Prime and an HTCP running Windows Media Center). Normally I have the computer set to output 1080p60. So I need a device that can accept 1080p60 as input. I know the HD PVR 2 accepts that as input but will decimate to 1080p30 (which would be jerky) or downscale to 720p60. If it could decimate accurately to 1080p24 that would be great. Otherwise I'd probably just go with downscaling to 720p60.

Thanks again for the sample.

[Brad]

It was PS3 -> HDMI -> HD PVR 2 with maxed settings -> VideoReDo GOP Cut mode (to ensure nothing was recompressed)

I didn't think the PS3 was set to 24p, but I guess it was. I was surprised by the frame rate of the file, expecting 1080p30. But there's no way it would actually decimate from 60 to 24. The advanced encoder dialogue specifically mentions that only 60->30 and 50->25 work.

[Brad]

Jagabo, if you didn't closely follow this stuff you may be surprised to learn, as I was, that the HD PVR 2 drops support for 5.1 and optical.

[jagabo]

Jagabo, if you didn't closely follow this stuff you may be surprised to learn, as I was, that the HD PVR 2 drops support for 5.1 and optical.

Thanks for that warning. Too bad they dropped 5.1. But I think I can live with a stereo downmix.

I'm currently using an HTPC with a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime as a cable tuner/DVR, hooked up to a TV via HDMI+HDCP. As you know, most of the recordings with this setup are encrypted, locked to the HTPC. I'd like a way to archive recordings now and then (or watch them on another TV in the house). I have an HDCP stripper so I'm looking at recording the HTPC's HDMI output on the same computer. The HD PVR2, with hardware compression, should be perfect for that. I can use a filter graph to send its USB output directly to a TS file with virtually no CPU usage (I used to do that with the original HD PVR). It would be great if it could reliable inverse telecine film sources back to 24 fps. But I can live with the HTPC's 1080p60 output being reduced to 720p60 for recording.

[Brad]

http://www.hdpvrcapture.com/wordpress/?page_id=97

Same errors visible in their 1080i captures, and these are people who write capture software for the device.

Is everyone else blind?

[jagabo]

http://www.hdpvrcapture.com/wordpress/?page_id=97

Same errors visible in their 1080i captures, and these are people who write capture software for the device.

Is everyone else blind?

I noticed in another thread you mentioned asking Hauppuage tech support about this problem. Have you heard back from them?

Do you have anything that can output 1080p60? Could you perform a little test for me? Try feeding the HD PVR 2 1080p60 and capture as 720p60 rather than decimating to 1080p30? I'm having trouble figuring out whether that's really an option. I know it can downscale 1080p60 to 720p. But I haven't been able to figure out for sure if that's 720p60 or 720p30. I'm testing an Elgato Game Capture HD right now and it only downscales and decimates to 720p30.

[gll99]

http://www.hdpvrcapture.com/wordpress/?page_id=97

Same errors visible in their 1080i captures, and these are people who write capture software for the device.

Is everyone else blind?

I noticed in another thread you mentioned asking Hauppuage tech support about this problem. Have you heard back from them?

Do you have anything that can output 1080p60? Could you perform a little test for me? Try feeding the HD PVR 2 1080p60 and capture as 720p60 rather than decimating to 1080p30? I'm having trouble figuring out whether that's really an option. I know it can downscale 1080p60 to 720p. But I haven't been able to figure out for sure if that's 720p60 or 720p30. I'm testing an Elgato Game Capture HD right now and it only downscales and decimates to 720p30.

If I understand what you are asking correctly.......I'm pretty sure feeding a 1080p/60 or 1080p/30 signal and having the HD PVR 2 capture at 720p is not possible. It will automatically take the 1080p/60 and make it 1080p/30 but to get 720p/60 I'm sure you have to input that to the pvr unless I missed something to my knowledge it's not selectable.

Recording formats

• 1080p60p (recorded as 1080p30)
• 1080p50p (recorded as 1080p25)
• 1080i60
• 1080i50
• 720p60
• 720p50
• 480p60
• 480i60
• 576p50
• 576i50

From what I've read the bypass will let the 1080p/60 go through even though it records it as 1080/30


btw) Just to correct something that was posted earlier. It may be known by now from other threads that the newer HD PVR2 released in Feb 2013 (models 1504 and 1519) have the 5:1 connector.

[jagabo]

I noticed in another thread you mentioned asking Hauppuage tech support about this problem. Have you heard back from them?

Do you have anything that can output 1080p60? Could you perform a little test for me? Try feeding the HD PVR 2 1080p60 and capture as 720p60 rather than decimating to 1080p30? I'm having trouble figuring out whether that's really an option. I know it can downscale 1080p60 to 720p. But I haven't been able to figure out for sure if that's 720p60 or 720p30. I'm testing an Elgato Game Capture HD right now and it only downscales and decimates to 720p30.

If I understand what you are asking correctly.......I'm pretty sure feeding a 1080p/60 or 1080p/30 signal and having the HD PVR 2 capture at 720p is not possible. It will automatically take the 1080p/60 and make it 1080p/30 but to get 720p/60 I'm sure you have to input that to the pvr unless I missed something to my knowledge it's not selectable.

Recording formats

• 1080p60p (recorded as 1080p30)
• 1080p50p (recorded as 1080p25)
• 1080i60
• 1080i50
• 720p60
• 720p50
• 480p60
• 480i60
• 576p50
• 576i50

From what I've read the bypass will let the 1080p/60 go through even though it records it as 1080/30

Thanks. I saw that table at Hauppauge but I was hoping it was just an oversight that they left out possibility of recording at 720p60 when receiving a 1080p60 signal. I guess you're saying it does the same thing I'm seeing with the Elgato Game Capture HD: 1080p60 input can only be recorded at 30 fps, regardless of what resolution you select for recording. Unfortunate for me.

btw) Just to correct something that was posted earlier. It may be known by now from other threads that the newer HD PVR2 released in Feb 2013 (models 1504 and 1519) have the 5:1 connector.

Yes, I saw that. I guess that's why Fry's has the older version on sale for US$139!

How does the button on top of the HD PVR 2 work? Does it start recording in the background (with the program minimized)? Or does it just open up the recording software?

Thanks again.

[gll99]

@jagabo
From what I read, the button starts the recording but the software has to be open already. I have the original HD PVR 1212/1219 (1080i max) and haven't unboxed my HD PVR2 1512/1519 yet but I've read that it won't stop the recording though so it is only to start recording. Someone said there is a couple of seconds delay too.

Late EDIT by gll99:
For those who read this later, I've since learned that the preceding is not true. The button will start the app you specify if it is not loaded although there will be a longer delay than if the app is already loaded. The button on top of the unit can also be pressed to stop the capture as well as start it. Starting and stopping with the button on top of the PVR works even if the capture app does not have focus when you press it.

AS far as resolution you don't really select it yourself. The PVR defaults to whatever you feed it as input. If you want to feed a cable box 720p then you have to set the cable stb to 720p, 1080i gets capped at 1080i etc... If you have source material from say.... a camera at 1080p/60 that's when it will default to 1080p/30 but according to Hauppauge the pass-through will put out the full 1080p/60.

[jagabo]

From what I read, the button starts the recording but the software has to be open already. I have the original HD PVR 1212/1219 (1080i max) and haven't unboxed my HD PVR2 1512/1519 yet but I've read that it won't stop the recording though so it is only to start recording. Someone said there is a couple of seconds delay too.

My interest revolves around the fact that I want to record the output of an HTPC, with the HD PVR 2 (or whatever) on that same HTPC. It would be great if I could start the recording software and have it running in the background -- then while watching TV, just press the record button on the PVR2 and have it start/stop recording, without disturbing the display; With the Elgato Game Capture HD I have to bring the recording software to the foreground, Press the on-screen start button to start recording, then bring WMC back to the foreground (which means the recording includes part of this window shuffling). To stop recording I have to bring the recording software back to the foreground, press the stop button, then bring WMC back to the foreground (and again part of this window shuffling is included in the recording).

AS far as resolution you don't really select it yourself. The PVR defaults to whatever you feed it as input.

I know the original Hauppauge HD PVR always records in the same format as the input ( I have one). I thought the HD PVR 2 and/or the Gaming Edition let you specify other recording resolutions? With the Elgato you get four choices: Mobile (360p), Standard (480p), 720p, and 1080p. Any input resolution can be scaled down (but not up) to one of those. It's aimed at gamers who want to upload to Youtube and stream live games.

Once you get your HD PVR 2 set up could you let me know about these issues? Thanks!

[Brad]

jagabo: I sent them this thread and the other day they told me they would pass it along to their engineers. (Howdy folks!)

I don't have the HD PVR 2 anymore so I can't perform your test. I kept it for as long as I could with the store's return policy but had to return it since 1080i is something I would capture a lot.

There is a big array of resolution options that you can select on one of the Advanced tabs. It briefly says which resolution/frame rate combinations are absolutely denied, but there is no way I can remember now.

[jagabo]

I don't have the HD PVR 2 anymore so I can't perform your test.

No problem. Thanks anyway.

[gll99]

From what I read, the button starts the recording but the software has to be open already. I have the original HD PVR 1212/1219 (1080i max) and haven't unboxed my HD PVR2 1512/1519 yet but I've read that it won't stop the recording though so it is only to start recording. Someone said there is a couple of seconds delay too.

My interest revolves around the fact that I want to record the output of an HTPC, with the HD PVR 2 (or whatever) on that same HTPC. It would be great if I could start the recording software and have it running in the background -- then while watching TV, just press the record button on the PVR2 and have it start/stop recording, without disturbing the display; With the Elgato Game Capture HD I have to bring the recording software to the foreground, Press the on-screen start button to start recording, then bring WMC back to the foreground (which means the recording includes part of this window shuffling). To stop recording I have to bring the recording software back to the foreground, press the stop button, then bring WMC back to the foreground (and again part of this window shuffling is included in the recording).

AS far as resolution you don't really select it yourself. The PVR defaults to whatever you feed it as input.

I know the original Hauppauge HD PVR always records in the same format as the input ( I have one). I thought the HD PVR 2 and/or the Gaming Edition let you specify other recording resolutions? With the Elgato you get four choices: Mobile (360p), Standard (480p), 720p, and 1080p. Any input resolution can be scaled down (but not up) to one of those. It's aimed at gamers who want to upload to Youtube and stream live games.

Once you get your HD PVR 2 set up could you let me know about these issues? Thanks!

I'll probably un-box mine in a day or so and try to check for any new recording options. My tests will have to come from component sources.

To keep your display on top what you need is a program that constantly polls the keyboard looking for hot control key combinations and then sends the equivalent char codes of keystrokes to the program of your choice. For example you press alt-ctrl-s and the program associates that with starting the capture of program X while Shift-ctrl-s might mean stop. I experimented with that in VB 6 using the Windows API functions a few years back. There are a few ways to find a loaded window and even take control of it and then to send it simulated keystrokes even if it doesn't have focus. As I recall you can't use "sendkeys" to a non active window but "sendmessage" or "postmessage" might work. I'm not sure which one I used to send keystroke commands to a program in background. For example to close a Virtualdub screen in background I might have used "Call PostMessage(lVDUBWnd, WM_CLOSE, 0, 0)" within my VB program. I used a similar structure to send ctrl key sequences that simulated menu presses. I haven't played with that in ages so I am very rusty. Not sure if any of this would work in anything but XP but there may be free hotkey monitor program out there that would do the job.

[gll99]

Unboxed 1519 and installed. Lots of problems and can't capture except a few quick frames. Will post more later but one thing for Jagabo... I was wrong about not being able to downgrade from 1080p to 720p. It can be done. You can't go int to prog though so 1080i can only go 1/2 res and below 960x540 so it is only down scaling no conversion. Lots to say but no time right now. Will have to remove and reinstall my 1219 for tonight since I need to do a cap.