I need some advice on transcoding to/from the CineForm intermediate codec.
I have clips from various sources; h264, MPEG2, VC-1, etc. that I need to convert to CineForm for editing in Vegas Pro but I'm not sure what the correct path would be.
If I use the CineForm software for transcoding h264, I'll have to demux the mkv clips and remux as mp4 for them to be recognized by the CineForm software. Just an extra step, but I don't have to worry about color spaces.
On the other hand, I transcode from h264 to CineForm using AviSynth I can use a script similar to this without the demux/remux step:
However, I'm not sure about the color spaces used for each of the codecs and how to properly convert between them. Are the color spaces something I should worry about?Code:LoadPlugin("...\tools\ffms\ffms2.dll") FFVideoSource("...\Source.mkv", fpsnum=24000, fpsden=1001, cache=false)
The only thing I really know about the clips, at this point, is that they're all 8-bit; no HDR or 10-bit clips.
After applying filters in Vegas Pro I'll be encoding to h264/h265 as the final product either by frameserving or rendering another CineForm file, again, some color space change (at least that's what MeGUI says when it adds "ConvertToYV12()" at the end of the script)
Need some advice on a proper work flow.
Thanks in advance
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Are your files YV12 (4:2:0) to start with or are they a 4:2:2 source?
Megui will add that ConvertToYV12() when the decoded source is not YV12. I've come across this problem with certain Directshow decoders, which will take YV12 footage and output YUY2 for whatever reason. If you know your source is not YV12 then this is proper, otherwise this might be a bug that is adding some degradation to your encodings. -
why use cineform? it's only visually lossless unlike lagarith, huffyuv or utvideo.
if vegas can use it and it's installed on your computer it will show up in vegas "video for windows" render as codecs. you can encode to it from within vegas.
[Attachment 47929 - Click to enlarge]Last edited by aedipuss; 29th Jan 2019 at 15:18.
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"a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303 -
oops sorry the slider had moved
[Attachment 47930 - Click to enlarge]--
"a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303 -
Just by looking at the two image posted above by aedipuss anyone can see all the different items for UtVideo. Need I say more about the confusion?
All the files I've checked so far show the following:
MPEG2
Code:ID : 224 (0xE0) Format : MPEG Video Format version : Version 2 Format profile : Main@Main Format settings : BVOP Format settings, BVOP : Yes Format settings, Matrix : Default Format settings, GOP : Variable Format settings, picture structure : Frame Duration : 4 min 8 s Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 4 405 kb/s Maximum bit rate : 6 125 kb/s Width : 720 pixels Height : 480 pixels Display aspect ratio : 4:3 Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS Standard : NTSC Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Interlaced Scan order : Top Field First Compression mode : Lossy Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.425 Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00 Time code source : Group of pictures header Stream size : 131 MiB (89%) Writing library : TMPGEnc MPEG Editor 2.1.1.152 Color primaries : BT.601 NTSC Transfer characteristics : BT.601 Matrix coefficients : BT.601
h264
Code:ID : 1 Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : Main@L3.1 Format settings : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames Format settings, CABAC : Yes Format settings, RefFrames : 4 frames Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC Duration : 44 min 0 s Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 3 385 kb/s Maximum bit rate : 5 100 kb/s Width : 1 280 pixels Height : 720 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.123 Stream size : 1.04 GiB (95%) Language : English Default : Yes Forced : No
Code:ID : 1 Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : High@L4.1 Format settings : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames Format settings, CABAC : Yes Format settings, RefFrames : 5 frames Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC Duration : 53 min 8 s Bit rate : 2 633 kb/s Width : 1 280 pixels Height : 720 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.119 Stream size : 1 001 MiB (86%) Writing library : x264 core 133 r2334 a3ac64b Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00 Language : English Default : Yes Forced : No Color range : Limited Matrix coefficients : BT.709
All the clips are 4:2:0 8-bit. I guess that would be about the only thing they have in common.
Also, the only time I've seen the ConvertToYV12() added is when transcoding from CineForm to h264. I don't see it when I use MeGUI to transcode movies directly to h264. -
Anything 1280x720 to 1920x1080 is going to be assumed to be BT.709, which is important when converting between YUV to RGB. Simply looking at a video requires YUV to RGB conversions as we all mostly use RGB monitors but work with YUV video. BT.609 is for SD content, like 480p and 576p resolutions.
Also, the only time I've seen the ConvertToYV12() added is when transcoding from CineForm to h264. I don't see it when I use MeGUI to transcode movies directly to h264. -
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Regardless of the codec selected as an intermediate, if you don't know what to use, color space wise, all are equally good and equally useless.
You could open a clip like this in VirtualDub2 (x64):
Code:LoadPlugin("...\tools\ffms\ffms2.dll") FFVideoSource("J:\001.mkv")
Unless, of course, the color space settings used really don't matter all that much. -
you have 2 color space choices with some codecs. use 601 for sd material and 709 for hd. some codecs don't give you a choice at all. you can always color correct in post anyway
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"a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303 -
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It's not clear from your original post that you "need" to convert to cineform at all. Why not just use a proxy workflow and relink your timeline to your original sources for final output. In other words, what's your real goal here? (Obviously I'm willing to concede I may have missed something.)
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YUY2 is 4:2:2, YV24 is 4:4:4, YV16 is 4:2:2, YV12 is 4:2:0, Y8 is 4:. RGB is effectively 4:4:4, but it does not really apply as the luma and chroma are not separated like the different YUV types. RGB24 is a 3 channel image (RedGreenBlue) with 8-bits per channel, taking 24 bits for one pixel. RGB32 is the same as RGB24 but with the addition of a transparent channel (Alpha), aka RGBA. http://avisynth.nl/index.php/YUV
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Some interesting reading...
No mention of lagarith, huffyuv or utvideo as intermediates.
https://blog.frame.io/2017/02/13/50-intermediate-codecs-compared/
https://blog.frame.io/2017/02/15/choose-the-right-codec/
https://trixter.oldskool.org/2017/04/02/an-informal-comparison-of-intermediate-editing-codecs/
http://www.glennchan.info/articles/vegas/v8color/vegas-9-levels.htm
Some good explanations.
http://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2010/06/color_subsampling_or_what_is_4.html
http://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2010/06/understanding_color_processing.html
http://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2010/06/what_is_yuv.html
And, you gotta love YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JYZDnenaGc
I also came across another codec I hadn't heard of before, MagicYUV. I've run various tests using several different codecs, HuffYUV, Lagarith, CineForm, MagicYUV, Grass Valley, etc. so far to measure encoding speed, file size, compare to original file for quality loss, Vegas compatibility and so on. So far, it seems, that Lagarith and MagicYUV are the quicker lossless formats, though the free version of MagicYUV is limited to 8 bit.
Has anyone else used MagicYUV for their work? Any thoughts, opinions or something I should look out for when using this codec?Last edited by fa1c0n; 3rd Feb 2019 at 14:19.
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If you want fast, go with Ut Video Codec. Never done Magicyuv.
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I've been trying Ut Video Codec using the following:
AviSynth script:
Code:LoadPlugin("C:\MeGUI-2896-64 - 2018-12-08\tools\ffms\ffms2.dll") FFVideoSource("J:\Season 01\S01-E01 - Temp.mkv", fpsnum=24000, fpsden=1001, colorspace="YUV420P8")
- Select Video -> Fast recompress
- Select Video -> Compression -> UtVideo YUV420 BT.709 VCM
- File -> Save As...
I average about 65-75 fps with 1080p. However, when rendering out of Vegas Pro it seems to have smart rendering and doesn't re-compress clips without any changes.
Using the same script with FFmpeg
Code:ffmpeg -i "J:\AVS Source\S01-E01 - Temp.avs" -vcodec utvideo -colorspace bt709 -an "I:\My Videos - Working On\S01-E01 - Temp.avi"
I've been looking a the different clips and cannot figure out what the difference is between them that would cause Vegas Pro to re-compress one, but not the other.
Opened both clips in VirtualDub2 (x64) to check File info, both the same. Media Info reports same results. The only difference is a small change in bitrate used between the two files.
Is there any way I can speed up the VirtualDub2 (x64) encoding? -
never mind
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"a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303 -
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"a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303
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