NTSC Capture Has White Line Near Top of Screen

[TazDave]

Bad wording on my part, the first video was the ES10 set to PAL not captured as PAL.

[jagabo]

Bad wording on my part, the first video was the ES10 set to PAL not captured as PAL.

The what happens if you have the ES10 set to PAL and VirtualDub capturing with PAL settings?

I suspect with a PAL60 input and the ES10 set to PAL the ES10 is dropping every every 6th frame to convert from 29.97 fps to 25 fps. Then with VirtualDub set to capture 29.97 fps it is duplicating every 5th frame to convert 25 fps to 20.97 fps -- but not coordinated in any way. So you end up with drops and dups.

It looks to me like the cap with both set to NTSC has the correct interlacing. But since the ES10 didn't understand the 4.43 MHz chroma it didn't successfully filter it out of the luma and didn't interpret the colors correctly.

So basically, you won't be able to use the ES10 to clean the time base with your current VCR. You'll need a real NTSC VCR. Or you can just live with the crappy results of connecting your VHS deck directly to the capture device.

[Sharc]

So basically, you won't be able to use the ES10 to clean the time base with your current VCR. You'll need a real NTSC VCR. Or you can just live with the crappy results of connecting your VHS deck directly to the capture device.

If the OP succeeds to produce captures via direct connection like his "Test Capture.2.avi" in post #39 (i.e. without too many dropouts as in his "Test Capture.avi") he could try to improve it in post processing and live with the line wiggle.
Far from good and wondering why there is a strong brightness fluctuation every 3rd field in the capture (or every 3rd frame in this bobbed version) towards the end of the clip causing ugly flicker. Maybe this is like it's on the tape.

[oln]

I changed the setting on my ES 10 to NTSC, here is the resulting captures in VirtualDub of both NTSC & PAL settings.

Did you also try change the setting on the VCR to NTSC 3.58? There should be a system setting in the VCR menu to select between NTSC 4.43, NTSC 3.58 and PAL60 (sometimes called NTSC on PAL TV). You want to select NTSC 3.58, which is normal/standard NTSC. I suspect that is what is missing here.

The ES10 can only handle standard NTSC, not NTSC 4.43 or PAL60. If the VCR is set to output one of those you won't get the correct color. The one with NTSC looks correct besides the color, so I think the capture card and ES10 is set correct in that one, the PAL one looks like it's trying to read PAL60 as normal 25fps PAL which will give color but otherwise look very bad as the frame rate is wrong.

The newer Sony and Pioneer dvd-recorders are the only ones I know that can decode NTSC 4.43 and PAL 60 properly, but since you presumably have a multi-system VCR with proper NTSC output those shouldn't be needed. The multi-system ones normally say "Multi-system" and "PAL/NTSC 3.58/NTSC 4.43/PAL60" or similar on them These seems to have been somewhat common in Australia/NZ and parts of Asia. PAL ones with pseudo-NTSC just say "NTSC PB" or "NTSC on PAL TV" or similar. Similar models with MESECAM support were used in the Middle East and Eastern Europe as those countries used SECAM. These multi-system seem to be pretty rare in North America as there probably wasn''t much marked for them there.

[TazDave]

The VCR I have is a multi system that choses NTSC automatically. It does say on the front of the VCR it will do both NTSC 3.58/4.43 but I cannot access the menu when connected to a PC, it apparently can only be changed when connected to a TV.

I've never connected a VCR to a flat screen, I was going to try but the thing that concerned me was I might be able to change to 3.58 on my TV but once I reconnect it back to my USB capture it may auto select back to 4.43.

[Sharc]

I changed the setting on my ES 10 to NTSC, here is the resulting captures in VirtualDub of both NTSC & PAL settings.

Did you also try change the setting on the VCR to NTSC 3.58? There should be a system setting in the VCR menu to select between NTSC 4.43, NTSC 3.58 and PAL60 (sometimes called NTSC on PAL TV). You want to select NTSC 3.58, which is normal/standard NTSC. I suspect that is what is missing here.

The manual may help with the setting options (e.g. pages 16,19 NTSC Playback) in case the OP doesn't have it.

[DB83]

Now, if memory serves, you do not have a proper remote for this vcr. But I would have thought that any front message is for signal input and not output - no vcr can detect a signal by simply connecting it to a tv. Or putting it another way, nothing will automatically change if you connect it to a tv or any other device.


And reading the manual while the vcr is described as multi-system this only appears to relate to recording and not playback. Page 19 of the manual states:-


Note for only NTSC Playback on PAL system TV






This function is designed to allow only the playback of tapes


recorded by NTSC signals on a PAL system TV. The NTSC


signal is not completely converted to a PAL signal. For this


reason, images played back by this function cannot be


recorded correctly on other VCRs.


And that is essentially either PAL60 or NTSC 443 neither of which are supported for true input by an ES10


Of course that setting may be default and can be altered to true NTSC 3.58 using a remote and following the full instructions on page 16 and 19

[TazDave]

I've actually managed to get into the setting through WinTv for some reason, I will post a pic below, please tell me if I should change anything, thank you.

[oln]

EDIT since you posted while I was replying: Yes, Change NTSC PB SELECT to "3.58". Can also turn off NTSC Converter but I think that's only for converting ntsc 3.58 from the front input to ntsc 4.43 so probably not relevant.

On page 16 you can see how to select the NTSC output system (NTSC PB SELECT), which is where you want to chose NTSC 3.58. I have one of the predecessors (NV-HD630AM) which is set up the same way, so I'm pretty sure it should work fine. It shouldn't matter what it is connected to for displaying the menu, though as VCR menus very often are non-standard (240p/288p) signals you may not be able to see it if connected directly to the capture card (but should display if going via the ES10). It could also be that the menu is output as PAL by default, so it may be easier to use a TV for it, though it seems the ES10 will output something even if it's receiving the wrong tv standard so that may be sufficient to change the system.

[TazDave]

Thank you for your help. So now should I try capturing with just the USB Live or connected to the ES10?

[TazDave]

Here is a capture of a capture with the USB live & the VHS player set at 3.58 NTSC

[DB83]

Frame-wise now perfect (no top or bottom border)


Was that through the ES10 ?

[jagabo]

Doesn't look like it. But the ES10 should be able to deal with it.

[TazDave]

Here is a capture through the ES10, both were set at NTSC

[oln]

Yeah much better, definitely capture through the ES10, much more stable and much better color/brightness separation. It does look like the VCR has some issues with tracking the tape, but otherwise it looks good.

[dellsam34]

I told him to do that in post #15 I'm glad it finally sunk in.

[DB83]

I told him to do that in post #15 I'm glad it finally sunk in.

But that was only part of the then issue. It took time, and a process of elimination, to capture a full-frame and not a squished/distorted one.


But I think we are now there and the OP can, finally, capture his NTSC material.

[dellsam34]

I think it was the issue, That crappy software was letter boxing because it was receiving an odd ball format so it didn't know what to do with it.

[TazDave]

Thank you everyone for the help, it's highly appreciated.

[dellsam34]

In those last two samples you got some tracking issues, Try cleaning the control track head to see if it helps otherwise your VCR could have been tempered with and lost its factory alignement.