used Multi-AVCHD, discs won't play in the Insignia WBRDVD player- WHY?

[Sinatrafan]

I've made several AVCHD discs, using Multi-AVCHD, burned with IMGBURN (UDF-250) on various media (Verbatim, Fujifilm)- these discs play very well in the cheap HD Blu Ray Player...no problem.

We bought the INSIGNIA WBRDVD Player, simply because it could stream Netflix..however, before I bought the player, I did some investigation...I read The Insignia thread on AVSFORUMS, people there also indicated that the INSIGNIA WBRDVD can play AVCHD discs. I downloaded the INSIGNIA WBRDVD users manual, which also (albeit somewhat ambigiously) indicated that this unit can play AVCHD Discs.

We bought the Insignia, (gave the HP Blu Ray player to our kid). Sure, the INSIGNIA plays back commercial Blu Ray discs very well, and streams Netflix well..however, when I play any one of my AVCHD discs, the INSIGNIA WBRDVD recognises them as BR (the BR Icon appears, but, the tray will re-open, then the Insignia will grin at me.

Sooo,, what am I doing wrong?

Any suggestions, or ideas are greatly appreciated !

[obewon]

in the output options in multiavchd theres different settings as you will know.
sounds like your authering as bd disc instead of avchd , tried both settings on my lg bd 370 and happy to say they both work with dvdr,(player see,s them differently though ie -bd disc or avchd disc)
but some players will only accept avchd on dvdr not bd settings on dvdr.
there is a difference in the files included in the disc struture, you could also try avchd strict which is another setting
like i said some players will play what ever settings you use but some are very picky with the avchd format.
hope this helps

[oldfart13]

Did you burn these using -R or +R? I ended up using Verbatim -R for all the AVCHDs I have been making for the Curtis DVD1102. You might have to experiment with what will work for you. Also, if the files are not compliant in the first place, they will be unlikely to work since they will be out of the Blu Ray specifications. I ran afoul of that today with a number of files I had which were not compliant. In my case, the program skipped them when I went to compile them but I think you might be able to force it to compile them anyway. I've only started to use this program.

Also, are the AVCHDs you are making double or single layer? Many players won't play double layer without getting a firmware upgrade.

[Sinatrafan]

Thank you for the suggestions..yes.. these are single layer DVD+R discs, and yes..I used the STRICT AVCHD folder.. the INSIGNIA NS-WBRDVD firmware is up to date..I used IMGBURN to burn in the UDF 250 format...burned the BDMV folder, and the HDAVCNT subfolders to the root. soo; these discs WERE burned in the normal AVCHD file structure. I had to transcode several movies, with Multi-AVCHD, to make the files COMPLIANT with the AVCHD standard..The Insignia didn't recognise it; although the HP Blu Ray Player DID.

I did come across the Multi-AVCHD forum this afternoon.. found one thread regarding this topic..the man who started the thread also had an INSIGNIA..he found that the INSIGNIA would NOT recognise any AVCHD discs at all...they tried various things, all of which did not work, until someone suggested they try burning the disc in the BLU RAY format.. with the CERTIFICATE folder..that step WORKED for the man.. he burned the disc in the BLU RAY format with a CERTICATE with IMGBURN.. and the disc played with no problem. SOO.. I will now try this step as well..

I'll let ya'll know if this step works for the INSIGNIA NS-WBRDVD player. Thanks again for all of the good suggestions !

[creamyhorror]

The multiAVCHD author (deank) will be happy for your confirmation of whether the problem can be fixed on your specific Insignia model. Make sure you let him know the outcome.

[oldfart13]

I used the BDRB test discs available from that program's forum and found the Curtis to be very flexible for what it will accept. I've now run into some other problems converting MKVs with multiAVCHD and can't access the forum for that program. Later for that as it's now 6am and I've been working on this one disc for the past 12 hours. I must get some sleep before tyring to solve these new problems...

[fritzi93]

What little information I've come across concerning Insignia BD players indicates they will play movie-only on BD 5/9. (Models: HS-BRDVD and NS2-BRDVD. It's possible your player is the same unit with different firmware, maybe someone here knows.) Specifically, movie-only muxed in tsMuxer (versions 1.8.35 and later) and output as AVCHD should work. I've also come across a model listed as playing movie-only multiAVCHD Blu-Ray output (NS-BDLIVE01).

Dunno much about multiAVCHD, only used it a couple of times, so can't comment on your procedure.

[Sinatrafan]

Thank you for all of the fine suggestionsl, guys.. I burned the BDMV folder and a CERTIFICATE folder to a DVD+R, with IMGBURN. I then placed the disc in the tray of the Insignia, closed it, the player did show the BR Icon..but..nothing ...simply ejected the disc again, then grinned wildly at me.

I've always made discs WITHOUT MENUS, so these discs ARE Movie only discs. I've really only tried Multi-AVCHD, and, now that I think about it..doesn't Multi-AVCHD incorporate tsMuxer within it's program?

The Insignia WILL play standard dvd backup copies I've made, on DVD+Rs, with Nero Recode, then burned with IMGBURN.

Sooo; hmm..I've a problem that I have no idea how to solve..

Thank you all for your input..I'm open to further suggestions.

[fritzi93]

Have a look here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146339&highlight=standalone+results

Check that there's an AUXDATA folder in the BDMV folder. Also, if using DVD+R, burn as DVD-ROM booktype.

[Sinatrafan]

Fritzi93, I've looked at the BDMV folder, there IS no AUX folder within the BDMV folder...I read the thread that you recommended...but, I'm sorry, it was a little advanced for my skill level..didn't really understand completely what they were saying, but, I think they said that the AUX file should be removed from the BDMV file to be able to playback on the Insignia NS-WBRDVD. But..MultiAVCHD does NOT include an "AUX" file in it's finished product.

Fritzi93, really? Burn as DVD-ROM Booktype? Hmmm..well.. It may be worth a try..I've made a lot of coasters trying to find a solution..one more probably won't matter !

Thanks for your suggestions..they are much appreciated !

[Sinatrafan]

Ok.. I'm stuck.. I've looked at the latest version of IMGBURN.. there isn't a setting to change the Booktype, at least, not that I've found..any help ?

Thanks !

[Sinatrafan]

OOhhh. I guess I have to upgrade the firmware in my Sony DVD burner to change the BOOKTYPE.. well.. umm... let me give that some thought..

[fritzi93]

Once you have selected write, you'll see a book icon at the bottom right. What's the model number of your Sony burner? Then we can find out the actual manufacturer, and change the booktype setting.

I'm not saying I'm sure it will work, but you'll see the tests on the page I linked specify DVD-R or DVD+R booktyped to DVD-ROM. (Not DVD+R). Notice it says so in the second sentence at the link. The Insignia players listed therefore should work with DVD-ROM booktype, and yours probably will too (fingers crossed).

As to the AUXDATA folder, I dunno what to make of that note. I just checked a BDRB encode I made today. It has the folder, but it's empty. You could try including one. (Read it again, I think you got it backwards). But I think booktyping is what you should try first.

Good luck.

[EDIT] Look in device manager and post the model number of the burner exactly as it appears.

[Sinatrafan]

Fritzi93, the device manager states that I have a "Sony DVD RW DRU-810A ATA". Ok.. I've located the Book Setting in IMGBURN, however, none of the selections there are SONY..sooo.. hmmm - I dunno what to do at this point..

I've also read in another thread this afternoon, that the INSIGNIA NS-WBRDVD player does NOT recognise M2ts files (it WILL recognise and play Mpeg-2 format)... that MAY be the problem right there, in that the MultiAVCHD software will convert any file to the M2ts format to comply with the AVCHD standard.. SOOO I had another idea. MultiAVCHD has the option to convert to a BLU RAY Mpeg 2 format, within the standard AVCHD BDMV folder.. soo I'm currently using MultiAVCHD to do this....sure..it's gonna be out of standard compliance, but.. hey...this MIGHT work ! :>)

We'll know within 20 hours or so..

Thanks again, Fritzi93 !~

[fritzi93]

That's why I want the model number.

First thing I found (at MyCE, formerly CDFreaks), is that it's a rebadged BenQ 1640.

I'll check to confirm that.

[EDIT] Yep, it's a rebadged BenQ 1640. Use the booktype setter in ImgBurn. Don't worry, it's not hazardous like updating firmware. It'll tell you if it's been reset successfully.

http://club.myce.com/f92/benq-1640-sony-dru-810a-cannot-read-dvd-rws-186836/

[fritzi93]

I've also read in another thread this afternoon, that the INSIGNIA NS-WBRDVD player does NOT recognise M2ts files (it WILL recognise and play Mpeg-2 format)...

I'm doubtful; to state the obvious, lots of posts on the 'net are by people who don't know what they're talking about. You got a link for that?

But hey, maybe so, you can try. Still, I'd change the booktype and try that.

[fritzi93]

Hard to find much about Insignia players, other than they're Best Buy's brand, actually manufactured by Funai. This post implies they will play *NON-strict* movie-only on BD 5/9, using BDRB.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1329994#post1329994

The author of BDRB has removed strict avchd as default for movie-only on BD 5/9, as it caused more problems than it solved.

[Sinatrafan]

Thanks, Fritzi93, for the info regarding booktype..I'll try that as soon as the transcoding into Mpeg-2 format is finished..shouldn't take too long.. regarding that thread; well.. I've read too many threads today to actually remember exactly where I saw it..but I'll look through the forums again to try to find it.. I was sorta doubtful about it as well...BUT I'm at the point of trying stuff just to see if the Insignia can play it.

Thanks again... :>)

[fritzi93]

When I search "Funai" instead of "Insignia" I get a ton more information. Here's a link:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1355885#post1355885

and another:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1355871#post1355871

and another:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1355871#post1355871

and another:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1269603#post1269603

It seems the Insignia (Funai) is very touchy. It wants to see two empty directories: BDMV/AUXDATA, and BDMV/BACKUP/AUXDATA. It does *NOT* like strict AVCHD.

[Sinatrafan]

Ok, Friti93..I gave up on transcoding the m2ts file into Mpeg-2...from what I understand now...it most likely wouldn't work at all..

Now, I DID remake the AVCHD again, using a relaxed AVCHD folder (not strict), when Multi-ACVHD finished, it had THREE major folders..the BDMV folder, the HDAVCTN folder, and a CERTIFICATE folder ! Well,, I was surprised...I thought that a ACVHD compilation would not have a CERTIFICATE folder.. anyway.. I burned the contents of the AVCHD folder (including all three folders and subfolders) to a RE WRITABLE disc (trying to save on blank discs).. well,, the Insignia simply ejected the tray again.. no dice. ( I tried to set the booktype to DVD-ROM, but apparently a RW can't be reset...)

Getting late here..gonna try to REDO the entire project tomorrow - with a DVD+R, set to Booktype DVD-Rom.. should I INCLUDE the CERTIFICATE folder ? I also noticed that the BACKUP folder did NOT have the AUXDATA folder in it as well.. should I ADD an empty AUXDATA subfolder to the BACKUP folder? The BDMV folder DOES have an empty AUXDATA subfolder within that folder.

Thanks again for all you help ! (ooh by the way; I was reading the INSIGNIA thread on AVS, someone indicated that yes..the EARLIER Insignia Blu Ray Players were made by Funai...however, the NS-WBRDVD Player (introduced in late 2009) is made by DUSAY (or is it DUSEY?) ...in the same factories that Samsung and LG Blu Ray players are made in.. China, don'cha know. )

[fritzi93]

I was reading the INSIGNIA thread on AVS, someone indicated that yes..the EARLIER Insignia Blu Ray Players were made by Funai...however, the NS-WBRDVD Player (introduced in late 2009) is made by DUSAY (or is it DUSEY?) ...in the same factories that Samsung and LG Blu Ray players are made in.. China, don'cha know. )

If that's true, then all bets are off. I hadn't got around to searching the AVS forum. Anything there that's actually useful for getting BD 5/9 to play on your player?

All I can suggest is try including the empty directories as described above and burn the disc booktyped as DVD-ROM. If that doesn't work, then...?

[Sinatrafan]

Fritzi93, I remade the AVCHD structure using TsMuxerGui..someone on the INSIGNIA forum said that they had the same Insignia NS-WBRDVD Player as I do, they always use TsMuxerGui, then burn the resulting file structure in the UDF-250 format- they are always able to play the discs they make in thier Insignia Blu Ray Player.... so thats' what I did, after changing the booktype to DVD-Rom... I also checked to see that it included all of the sub folders that you mentioned above.. it did.

I placed the resulting disc in the tray, it was noisely loading for a long time..before the tray ejected the disc...again.

I'm about ready to give up on this project.. Before I do, I'm going to contact the guy on the INSIGNIA forum ( who owns the same Insignia that I do) to ask him precisely what he has done, that is different from what I'm doing...

Perhaps I've got a faulty Blu Ray Player; but, it's too late now to return it. Rats.


Thanks everyone for all of the great suggestions..especially to you, Fritzi93.. you've provided some great suggestions and links.. all of which has been much appreciated !

[fritzi93]

Did you mux as Blu-Ray or AVCHD in tsMuxer? I'd try muxing as Blu-Ray if you haven't already. Other than that, I'm out of suggestions.

Anyway, you're welcome, we tried.

[Sinatrafan]

Fritzi93, I Muxed the AVCHD format instead of the Blu Ray format.. still wouldn't work, even with the change in BOOKTYPE...

I thought that I would re-read the INSIGNIA user guide, to see if I missed something....I was correct in understanding that it DOES accept DVD+Rs -The User Manual states as much, and I've been able to play back standard DVD Backups on the Insignia that were burned on DVD+R discs.

The Manual also states (in an oblique way) that the INSIGNIA will play back AVCHD discs.

HOWEVER...here's something that I MISSED the first few times that I read this manual..and again.. it IS not immediately apparent..it states that the Insignia WILL play back BLU RAY discs that are DVD-RAM - or - DVD-R discs. (my guess is that AVCHD discs are playable ONLY if they are also DVD-RAM, or DVD-Rs, due to the similar file structure.)

Now, here's something that I find to be strange...The Manual also states that the Insignia WILL NOT play back any Blu Ray discs that do NOT indicate the same REGION code that the player is assigned..it also states that the Insignia WILL NOT play a Blu Ray disc IF the REGION CODE is NOT there at all.. OR if it indicates "Playable in ALL Regions".

Now.. how the heck do ya include the REGION CODE on a back up AVCHD or Blu Ray disc? No back up software that I'm familiar with INCLUDES the REGION code in the file structure.

Ok.. I'm gonna buy a spindle of DVD-Rs tomorrow, and try once more..but.. man.. I dunno what to do with the REGION Code thing.. and HOW in the world are OTHER owners of the Insignia NS-WBRDVD Player able to play thier own back up copies on this player, if the REGION CODE is a requirement ?

Questions, Questions...I'll try again tomorrow, one last time.. I'm also gonna buy a 8 gig USB memory stick..it will also play back HD video files..I tried a small USB 4 gig stick, all the HD files I had were too big to fit, but I put an AVI file in it, it played perfectly through the USB port on the INSIGNIA..although the framerate was not the best..but maybe that fault was inherent within the AVI file itself, rather than the USB stick.

Thanks again for the suggestions, Frizti93 ! I'll try again tomorrow !

[Sinatrafan]

Fritzi93, I re-made the project again..with TsMuxer, I also added the extra AUXDATA folder within the backup subfolder, located within the BDMV folder.. then selected the BLU RAY format, instead of the AVCHD format...once the file structure was completed, I burned it with IMGBURN in UDF-250 format onto a DVD-R disc (instead of a DVD+R Disc.)

I honestly have no idea what made the difference, either makeing the project as a BLU RAY, or adding the extra folder, OR burning the project on a new DVD-R disc.. BUT it WORKED !

I placed the disc in the tray of the INSIGNIA NS-WBRDVD player.. the loading process was NOT noisy at all, it immediately recognised the disc as a BLU RAY..then proceeded to play the HD content all the way through to the end of the movie, without any problem~!~

Thank you to everyone who had advice and suggestions, especially to Fritzi93...who provided valuable insights into the problems of dealing with Insignia Blu Ray players.. THANK YOU ! :>)

[fritzi93]

Well, that was a tough one.

Good for you, you didn't quit! Now you know what you need to do.