Stand alone DVD recorder vs PVR

[seekninfo]

I am considering buying a stand alone dvd recorder and have been doing some reading on this board for info. One thing I have noticed is that their performance is really inconsistent. Any model that one can pick has its detractors and "supporters".

On the hand I have also come across suggestions for building a computer and using an encoder (software or hardware) one can do essentially what a stand alone dvd recorder does.

Can some of the members of this board let me have the benefit of their experiences or knowledge with respect the advantages or lack thereof of either setup. I would like to take the plunge with a certain degree of knowledge, confidence and anticipation of problems and how to deal with them as either system can run anywhere fro $800-$1200.

Suggestions for DVD recorders preferably one with (HDD) or a computer system designed to do the same would really be welcome.

Thanks for any info or suggestions

[Capmaster]

There are advantages to both approaches. Here's my thumbnail take on it:

Standalone advantages:
Easy
Convenient
Inexpensive
Excellent video quality

Standalone disadvantages:
Doesn't defeat macrovision
TBC (if included) isn't as good as a standalone
Extensive editing after capturing is problematic
Inflexible video options

PC Capture advantages:
Lots of freedom configuring it
One part can be upgraded without replacing the whole thing (app revisions, capture HW upgrade, writer upgrade)
Editing after capture is easy and straightforward

PC Capture disadvantages:
More expensive (all HW and apps)
Only very few capture HW models bypass macrovision
Requires PC be equipped with tuner/sat receiver ...else colocated with receiver for broadcast captures

I have both setups. I also have a standalone TBC so I capture macrovision material on the PC.

The standalone gets the lion's share of work though. The results are amazing, and the block filters have to be seen to be believed

Recommendations: A Panasonic unit that has a HD ...like the DMR-E85.

[gshelley61]

Two disadvantages Cap didn't mention about using the PC... first is the steep learning curve. To generate results as good as the average DVD recorder, you definitely have to know what you are doing.

The second problem, and this is the kicker, is TIME. Capturing, editing, frameserving, encoding, authoring and burning is very time consuming. DVD recorders offer excellent quality results in real time.

[zleepy]

I got the LiteOn 5001 to transfer protected tapes to DVD.

I use cyberhome 1500 to record TV shows then edit out the adverts with it.
Adding chapters is easy too.

LiteOn doesn't edit and you have no control on where to put the chapter marks.
I prefer DVD Shrink over Womble for editing out adverts on Liteon recordings.

LiteOn 5005 can also be made macrovision free.

EDIT:
I am looking to upgrade my cyberhome with a HD model that's just as easy to edit.
Probably it'll be the iLO dvrhd04, since it has decent hack-support.

[Frobozz]

If you're talking about a PVR that also can burn DVDs the standalone units are far superior to using a computer. I switched from using my computer to a Pioneer DVR-510H-S this summer (when the cost finally became affordable to me) and couldn't be happier. I recommend its successor, the DVR-520H-S, to anyone as well as the TIVO-equipped Pioneer DVR-700 (my daughter has one of those).

I now only use the computer when I want to create special video DVDs using an editing application. It is so much faster and easier to use the standalone unit for TV programs or converting my laserdiscs to DVD. And the picture quality is terrific.

[lordsmurf]

Standalone advantages:
Excellent video quality

This depends entirely on the quality of the chips inside the recorder. Quite a few recorders out there are inferior even to that of the cheapest capture cards money can buy (BT chipsets).

[TBoneit]

I got the LiteOn 5001 to transfer protected tapes to DVD.

I use cyberhome 1500 to record TV shows then edit out the adverts with it.
Adding chapters is easy too.

LiteOn doesn't edit and you have no control on where to put the chapter marks.
I prefer DVD Shrink over Womble for editing out adverts on Liteon recordings.

LiteOn 5005 can also be made macrovision free.

EDIT:
I am looking to upgrade my cyberhome with a HD model that's just as easy to edit.
Probably it'll be the iLO dvrhd04, since it has decent hack-support.

I use the Cyberhome 1500 too, But I do run it with the cover off as it gets very hot otherwise. And since I don't do timer recordings with it I switch it off on thge back when not in use to save electricty, wear and tear and reduce heat. Have you run across the thread here about Cyberhome doing out of warranty exchanges on this unit. I suspect they realize it has heat problems. I'd bet the re-furb they ship back has a colling fan and vents or they'll replace it with a 1502 (as I recall the thread saying, but it has worse editing.)

Cheers

[TBoneit]

I myself capture mostly on the standalone (Cyberhome 1500 modded for cooling, IE No cover), rip into the computer, re-author and trim. If the source is good quality then the 2Hr. setting does a good job for me.

I re-author for better menu's and just trim start and end times. Tmpgenc does it for e as it lets me trim and edit, use a still background r motion menu .

I can make a menu layout that I like with it. I tend to stay away from motion menus as they reduce the space for the video unless the video is short enough to leave room. Then I extract a short portion of the video for the menu.

Cheers

[louthewiz]

I also have been down both paths ,but to me having a dvd ecorder with a HDD is a big advantage for me because I can record edit and burn to a dvd all in one machine. And if I want to back up commercial dvds I use my cpu with my 2 burners and thats it,I hope this helps you out.

[lenti_75]

2 things

1. if you have a lot of material to transfer on dvd, then stand alone is the way

2. if you do it for fun and want more options and control on your result, then is the pc.

I like the pc option, the result is more "professional", is a hobby.

[Capmaster]

Standalone advantages:
Excellent video quality

This depends entirely on the quality of the chips inside the recorder. Quite a few recorders out there are inferior even to that of the cheapest capture cards money can buy (BT chipsets).

True. And there are some pretty sad capture cards too. Anything made by ADS, for starters, IMHO

But you're right ...getting a standalone recorder doesn't guarantee great quality. But I'm assuming that if he took the time to pulse us about our feelings on comparing the two approaches, he would also do the same before committing any money to a standalone purchase

[JohnnyCNote]

I have the DishNetwork PVR and a Pioneer DVR-210. They make a great combination. I'm currently in the process of putting The Sopranos on DVD as they're showing it nightly, a new episode each night, on HBO-2. I'm also rebuilding my gangster movie collection on DVD and replacing my old VHS tapes as I catch them on satellite. Depending on what you want to do, I can vouch for this set-up....

[handyguy]

Another bonus with a recorder is that it turns itself on when its needed.

Saves a lot of power not having to have your PC (300 watts) & maybe your monitor on all the time.

[tipstir]

For the PC you can call it:

HTPC (Home Theater Personal Computer)
TVR (Tuner Video Recorder)
PVR (Personal Video Recorder)
DVR (Digital Video Recorder)

I use both, DVD Recorder Liteon 5101 and PC P4 Built DVR system.

Which one you say is better?

Well let's take into consideration the PC.

Need P4 2.4 GHz or better or AMD XP 2400+ or better
512 MB DDR RAM (1 GB DDR RAM better)
HDD 60 GB min (recommend 160 GB to 300 GB)
DVDRW 8x to 16X Burner Single 4.7 GB or Dual Layer 8.5 GB
PC Video Capture Card (RF, S-Video, Video, Audio)
DVR Software Tuner Recorder / Viewing Program

Now the Home Stereo System in the Living Room.

DVD Recorder Single 4.7 GB and Dual Layer 8.5 GB DVDRW
Need Multi-channel Digital Stereo Surround Receiver
R6 Digital Quad 2.3GHz Coax Cable (8x low signal loss and 3x transfer)
24K Gold S-Video, Optical Cable, Regular 24K Gold Audio Cables

My thoughts is that all this depends on what you want to do with your setup. Building a PC as a DVR is a better way to go, cheaper if you get all your stuff from a computer fair or show.

I started with just the DVDRW on the PC.
Next PCTV Stereo Capture Card plust DVDRW on the PC
Finally streaming the media down to the living TV using Media MVP (a network device that hooks up to your TV S-Video, Video and Stereo Audio L / R.

After all I have the most fun I am having is recording cable TV manually or using the Titan TV PVR Web site to setup schedule recordings. Using WinDVD Recorder Platinum 5 and WinDVR 3 software.

Doing this way saves me time to burn the recorded cable TV media to DVDRW and I can quickly watch the recorder stuff directly on the TV using Media MVP ( Music, Video, Picture and now Web Radio Player)

Or I can go down stairs in the living room and setup the timer on the Liteon DVD Recorder and erase the DVDRW disc before I would record.

Think of the DVD Recorder as a PC burner which is mostly the case. The units with the HD cost more, were you can build a PC with 120 GB HD for less than 80 bucks. Most of these recorders had 80 GB HDD a lot are coming out with 160 GB.

But you'll soon realize like I did that using the EP the longest play isn't the greatest, I use either LP on the DVD Recorder on a 4x DVDRW or SP on the PC at 8x DVDRW.

To me the picture that comes out of the PC and the one from the TV DVD Recorder is almost the same. This all depends on the signal strength coming in from your Cable TV.

Since I have both Analog and Digital Cable TV, there is a big difference in picture then again the method I use to record both helps a lot.

[seekninfo]

Thanks for all the responses. I shall mainly be transfering LD to DVD so I would give the standalone DVD recorder a try.

One more question...what is the quality of recording like when using different modes (ie SP LP FR etc) for recording on a standlone dvd recorder

[TBoneit]

Well when you have decided on what model(s) you are interested in, go to the manufacturers website and research. Use the feedback to request specific information.

Run the bitrate calculator over in the tools section. That'll give you approx bitrates.

I find that the 2 hour setting works good for me. I did a disk using the 6 hour setting to record a sirius audio channel from Dishnetwork and the audio was fine but the video quality even though it was only scrolling title information was only fair. That was most likely 352 by 240 by 1150K bit rate (same as VCD) with AC3 audio.

On mine as I recall it the 1 & 2 hour settings are 720 by 480 and the 4 hour setting is 352 by 480.

Cheers

[Frobozz]

One more question...what is the quality of recording like when using different modes (ie SP LP FR etc) for recording on a standlone dvd recorder

You will get very good picture quality from your laserdiscs. Quality doesn't start to suffer until more than 2 hours is recorded and still is quite good until more than 3 hours is on a disc. Each person has their own opinion of what good picture means, though. I've never owned a standard VHS recorder because I couldn't stomach the lousy picture, so I consider myself something of a snob about picture quality. I think that's something I share with many other laserdisc owners.

I have the Pioneer DVR-510H-S which has 32 FR settings. I'm very pleased with the results in copying my laserdiscs and recommend its successor, the DVR-520H-S, as one people should consider when comparing different brands.