using photography cameras for video...

[nkordyjaka]

Had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine who has been digging into photography really hard the last couple years. He was over showing me his first published shots in a skateboarding magazine. Was pretty cool!

Anyways he works part time at a large studio that does wedding photography and video. We were talking about some different video cameras and mentioned that his studio did have some pretty big dollar HD cameras, but that most of what they've started using in the last little while as stationary cameras were Canon 5D Mark II's .

Never heard of this before but they are a HUGE agency and do a ton of big dollar weddings so it must be working...

i'm assuming because they're smaller (easy transport, less 'visual' room when set up at a wedding?) and less expensive. They're still shooting 1080 p with them, and it goes to an sd card i guess instead of a tape...

anyways, thought it was interesting. Thoughts or whatevs...

n

[edDV]

Had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine who has been digging into photography really hard the last couple years. He was over showing me his first published shots in a skateboarding magazine. Was pretty cool!

Anyways he works part time at a large studio that does wedding photography and video. We were talking about some different video cameras and mentioned that his studio did have some pretty big dollar HD cameras, but that most of what they've started using in the last little while as stationary cameras were Canon 5D Mark II's .

Never heard of this before but they are a HUGE agency and do a ton of big dollar weddings so it must be working...

i'm assuming because they're smaller (easy transport, less 'visual' room when set up at a wedding?) and less expensive. They're still shooting 1080 p with them, and it goes to an sd card i guess instead of a tape...

anyways, thought it was interesting. Thoughts or whatevs...

n

What do you want to know?

Have you ever held a Canon 5D MkII (with lens) and think it is small? Ever see the suitcase with accessories? Also, this kind of cam needs a 20 lb. Bogen/Manfroto tripod. Not great for hand hold.

DSLR's are an alternative but not a fully functioning camcorder. Also the AVCHD format is difficult to edit.

So you want to go into the wedding video business? I suggest the 5D MkII be used for B roll.

Rigged for B roll camcorder duty



Fully Rigged with audio.

[nkordyjaka]

No I have no experience hooding any pro or prosumer photography cams. Only video cams.
But I thought it was interesting. I mean I don't have a ton of experience but I've never seen wedding video guys using them that way.

How is that format harder to work with in editing?
Cool pics!

[nkordyjaka]

No I have no experience hooding any pro or prosumer photography cams. Only video cams.
But I thought it was interesting. I mean I don't have a ton of experience but I've never seen wedding video guys using them that way.

How is that format harder to work with in editing?
Cool pics!

[edDV]

DSLR cams have advantages.

The large sensor is compatible with interchangeable still cam lenses but lenses with instant focus, motorized iris and/or motorized zoom are very expensive if not noisy for audio.

Main advantage is 35mm style narrow focal depth of field but that requires focus management.

Other advantage is potential for better low light performance with large glass and large sensors.

The cost is poor form factor for live camera management and yes AVCHD and 24p editing issues. Not for the amateur.

[hech54]

I prefer the video from my Canon portable (Ixus 90) over the video from my Nikon D90. I can count on one hand the number of vids I've shot on the D90. Of course....I don't shoot much video anyway and the video aspect of the D90 was never a consideration for me upgrading to it from my old D70. And these are both MJPEG.

[nkordyjaka]

AVCHD and 24p editing issues. Not for the amateur.

Hm. Yeah I'm seeing quite a few issues online with it. I've read that Sony Vegas 8 and up deal with this format okay though? True?

Ive got 6 now but would upgrade if it could do it...

[jagabo]

DSLR vs Film Camera Shootout:
http://www.zacuto.com/shootout

[edDV]

AVCHD and 24p editing issues. Not for the amateur.

Hm. Yeah I'm seeing quite a few issues online with it. I've read that Sony Vegas 8 and up deal with this format okay though? True?

Ive got 6 now but would upgrade if it could do it...

I'd say Vegas v9 up for AVCHD but you also need a quad core CPU up (ideally an i5/i7) to get adequate timeline performance. Unlike, DV/HDV/XDCAM, there is currently no smart render feature so AVCHD is going to take additional recode loss.

A major limitation for wedding work is going to be audio. These cams record compressed ac3, lack multichannel XLR input, aren't good for wireless mics without an external BeachTek. It becomes a very bulky hand held solution. That is why I suggested B-Roll application with the main cam handling the core multi-track audio.

By the time you buy all the accessories, you are going to exceed the price of say a good 3x CCD JVC GY-HM100U that has all the needed features built in and handles much better. The HM100U records up to 35Mb/s MPeg2 (similar to XDCAM) with uncompressed LPCM audio.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=597842&is=REG&A=details&Q=



The main DSLR advantage remains narrow depth of field giving it a more 35mm look.


PS: Forgot to mention the DSLR CMOS sensor rolling shutter issues that aren't present in a 3x CCD design.
http://dvxuser.com/jason/CMOS-CCD/

[jagabo]

DIY 35mm adapters for consumer cancorders:
http://www.twoneil.com/

[lordsmurf]

You're forgetting time limits:

On 5DmkII, the video recording limit is 30 minutes in standard definition (480/30p) mode. At HD bitrates this is roughly equal to 12 minutes of video, resulting in a 4 gig file. There are no overheat or sensor issues, but the maximum possible single shot is rougly 12 minutes. Once the shot is complete, another 12 minute shot can be started with a delay of only a few seconds.

The Nikon D3s is limited to 5 min 720p, 20 minutes for less res.
New Nikon D7000 is longer, more res (20 min @ 1080p), but DX format, which loses optical qualities against full-frame.
At least the D3s is MJPEG and not AVC, so much easier to edit.

Not sure why DSLRS are stuck in FAT32 still. Very stupid.

And then it's a huge battery suck. Drains a full battery in just a few "bursts" of video use.

[edDV]

You're forgetting time limits:

On 5DmkII, the video recording limit is 30 minutes in standard definition (480/30p) mode. At HD bitrates this is roughly equal to 12 minutes of video, resulting in a 4 gig file. There are no overheat or sensor issues, but the maximum possible single shot is rougly 12 minutes. Once the shot is complete, another 12 minute shot can be started with a delay of only a few seconds.

The Nikon D3s is limited to 5 min 720p, 20 minutes for less res.
New Nikon D7000 is longer, more res (20 min @ 1080p), but DX format, which loses optical qualities against full-frame.
At least the D3s is MJPEG and not AVC, so much easier to edit.

Not sure why DSLRS are stuck in FAT32 still. Very stupid.

And then it's a huge battery suck. Drains a full battery in just a few "bursts" of video use.

All good input. The more experience you have shooting event videography, the more you appreciate traditional tape based HDV cams like the Sony V1. Flash RAM is very expensive if the event requires hours of raw shooting before you can unload the RAM. At least the JVC HM100U takes SDHC flash RAM (Class 10) and takes two 32GB modules (a $400 investment for ~4 hours).

Camcorder batteries have improved. The larger lithium-ion batteries can go a few hours. The tiny DSLR batteries require more frequent change.

Still, other batteries need to be managed in wireless mics and accessories. Not to mention lights.

[lordsmurf]

DSLR video was, in my opinion, created for photojournalists who see a "video worthy" moment about to happen. In the old days, you didn't care, because you had print interests. These days, with converged media, you want video for your online pub, even if it's the online version of a print pub. Broadcasting has fully leaked into print, and this was one way to add it without adding videographers.

Think of DSLR video as collecting "video bites" (like sound bites).

These weren't made for shooting TV episodes, wedding, etc -- buy a real video camera for those.

I can shoot some cool stuff on the D3s, but there's now way in hell I'd look at using it to shoot a wedding. Same goes for Canon or any other DSLR brand.

Video and stills are separate skills, too.

[edDV]

Here's a good wedding strategy.

Get the prime event video and audio covered with your video camcorder. Send Uncle Larry out with his DSLR to shoot pretty B-roll and maybe some interviews. He won't be tied to the event schedule so will have time to dump his RAM to a laptop.

[nkordyjaka]

some fantastic info! Thanks so much to everyone!

I had no idea of the 12 minute video limits. For me that would eliminate any advantages to using something like that. It had never crossed my mind. I was just hoping for a cool alternative to act as a stationary b-roll like edDV had suggested.
I thought perhaps going with a DSLR would give me some good pricing options and allow me to purchase a decent video camera as my main feed.

A major limitation for wedding work is going to be audio. These cams record compressed ac3, lack multichannel XLR input, aren't good for wireless mics without an external BeachTek.

I would think the best audio would be from a couple wireless mics strategically placed feeding to a board that's recorded separate from the audio to be mixed in afterwords. That way you could also take a feed from the church board as well and get a clean track of any instruments/tracks everything. even one mic at the back for ambient room sounds without distance ratio changes on what's closest to camera...

I find for me a video is only as good as it's weakest link. So you could be in crystal clear HD with fantastic lighting but with crummy audio the video just is like...meh...

[edDV]

A major limitation for wedding work is going to be audio. These cams record compressed ac3, lack multichannel XLR input, aren't good for wireless mics without an external BeachTek.

I would think the best audio would be from a couple wireless mics strategically placed feeding to a board that's recorded separate from the audio to be mixed in afterwords. That way you could also take a feed from the church board as well and get a clean track of any instruments/tracks everything. even one mic at the back for ambient room sounds without distance ratio changes on what's closest to camera...

It is usually an advantage to have a house mono mix feed to one of the camcorder tracks. This can be done wired or wireless. It also helps to rent the same brand wireless mic receiver as the house so you can directly receive their individual mics by switching channels or switch to your own wireless mic.

[nkordyjaka]

Dude! Renting the same receiver is freaking genius. Lol that's awesome.