Roxio introduces alternative to DVD2One

[galactica]

its too bad it isnt just an enhancement add on to toast. like an extra tab, rather than a 2nd app. but from what i see its quite nice

[geezerbuttz]

Does Popcorn have anything DTOX does not have....

YES...


it will compres Sony ARccOS rips from MTR ( Dev 2.5 ) WITHOUT having to wash the IFO structure first....

In this respect DVDremaster and DTOX fail

Geezerbuttz

[macuser25]

Pop has features that 90% of features that most people want to do most of the time for half the price. That's it in a nutshell.

For someone who hasn't purchased the Toast part already - they can get DVD2One type features + Toast burning in a single app.

For those who want DVD2One and need some way to burn their VIDEO_TS folder, they can get the Toast burning features for half the price of Toast.

Seems like everybody wins... regardless of whether they want to use Popcorn for the compression or DVD2One for the compresion.

[londor]

For those who want DVD2One and need some way to burn their VIDEO_TS folder, they can get the Toast burning features for half the price of Toast.

For burning your VIDEO_TS folders you can get DVDImager (free) and then use Disk Utility (Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility). No need to expend money in burning software just for this.

[galactica]

Yes, but for those out there with non iApps supported drives, this is a nice way to get the "toast burned dvd" without having toast itself.

overall im very impressed with it.

[bendermac]

Does Popcorn have anything DTOX does not have....

YES...


it will compres Sony ARccOS rips from MTR ( Dev 2.5 ) WITHOUT having to wash the IFO structure first....

that might be the case but as long you're unable to rip the dvd all this is useless but wiseweasel told us that you're working on a solution for the ripping part

[WiseWeasel]

The ripping part is solved. All that's left is making the output compatible with DVD2OneX. As for Popcorn, one crucial feature that it lacks is the ability to eliminate a single audio track. I always remove the DTS audio track if there's an AC3 track of the same language, as DTS takes up significant space, and thus makes the video quality significantly poorer after compression. For those posting comparisons, processing time would also be good to know...

[Frobozz]

I agree that Roxio should seriously consider providing the option to select which audio track you want when they update Popcorn. I hadn't thought of an option to select all but one, but what if the DTS track is the one you wanted instead of the Dolby track? Now you have to take all the tracks if you don't want the first one, which increases the needed video compression.

Still, it's a darn good version 1.0.

[WiseWeasel]

Yeah, obviously they would have to allow you to specify exactly which audio track(s) you want. Does Popcorn automatically backup all subtitle tracks? I agree that it's a good 1.0 release, and I'm relieved that it accepts the MTR output from ARccOS-protected DVDs. One less worry, and one more available solution on the Mac. Also, the price is good. I hope this makes the DVD2One team reconsider their price point, which with the weak US dollar, is quite high.

[geezerbuttz]

HEY BENDERMAC...

Its working!!!!!

just wait for a few days....

[bendermac]

As for Popcorn, one crucial feature that it lacks is the ability to eliminate a single audio track.

acctually you can remove audio tracks with popcorn but only in 'main movie only' mode. what you can' deselect is subtitles, nor in movie only or in full disc.

one feature i really like in popcorn is the status bar of the compression factor. it shows you when u select movie only and i dump a audio track if this is already enough to keep the video untouched. a feature dvd2one still hasn't

anyway, dvd2one will remain my no.1 tool in assosiation with mtr and toast 6 8)

[WiseWeasel]

It doesn't say which track is the DTS one if there are several of the same language... I think...

[terryj]

hmm, no reason to switch for me then.

[AntnyMD]

I agree with the person who noted the DVD2OneX price point ... It was already sold at a higher price than its PC equivalent. I bought it when the Euro and US dollar were roughly equivalent, but lately the dollar has tanked so DVD2OneX is now a very expensive option for most casual users. Popcorn, with its near zero learning curve and familiar Toast-like interface, is a no-brainer for first time buyers. When DVD2OneX changes version numbers and the developers want more cash, Popcorn will be a serious option for me.

[g4jedi]

Hmmmm.... I tried Popcorn on one movie and did NOT like the results when played on my Sony. I chose to do a complete copy of a film. Garfield the Movie (shut up, it's for the kids ) The speed seems about the same as DTOX, and I liked that. However, when I played the movie in my Sony, the video was very jumpy. Almost like the compressor tossed out some frames. It was very annoying. So as a test I copied the same movie using DTOX and Toast. The playback was perfect. So, for now, I'm stikcing with DTOX.

[badtz]

I really like that status bar showing the compression in Popcorn. For now, the only feature I'll wait for is to be able to de-select audio tracks. Otherwise, looks good!

[Frobozz]

Ever wonder if compressing with Popcorn a high bitrate movie to fit single layer media has a better or worse picture than using a lower bitrate in the first place?

That question was asked in the Roxio Popcorn forum and the reply was the Popcorn compressed video may have better picture quality. "I think you would notice a difference, wrote freshburn. "Popcorn doesn't re-compress the video, it actually adjusts the quantization of each frame which lowers the bitrate and should give one better quality then encoding at a lower bitrate."

[g4jedi]

Bah! At what cost? Frames get dropped! I'm sticking with DVD2One for now...

[WiseWeasel]

Frames don't actually get dropped with any of these programs. They all requantize the MPEG2 video stream to a lower rate. I think it's wrong that encoding at high bitrate and then requantizing will give better results than encoding at the lower bitrate to start with. A good VBR MPEG2 encoder will optimize the bitrate distribution based on the amount of motion and image complexity, much moreso than a requantizer is capable of doing. I think Freshburn is full of it.

[Frobozz]

I should have stated that the question in the Roxio Popcorn forum was whether encoding with Toast at it's best bitrate (8 mbps VBR) and then using Popcorn to compress was better than encoding at Toast's lowest bitrate (5 mbps VBR) when needed to fit single-layer media. Freshburn's answer was specific to a Toast-encoded MPEG2 and so my previous post was misleading.

[chikanakan]

If an encoder is good enough, that is great. But I've seen very few software encoders (especially on the Mac) that are great.

If an MPEG is created with a hardware encoder, it will have better quality at the lower bitrate then a software encoder will have at that same bitrate. If you have a 12Mbps MPEG file and re-quantized the file, you will have better quality then taking that same file and re-encoding it to 8Mbps. Re-encoding the file means decoding the file and then encoding back again. If there are any problems with the MPEG, artifacts can occur.

Anyway, I almost never see artifacts in files ran through Popcorn or DVD2One, but if a run a MPEG through Toast or any other program to re-encoded it (including Compressor) artifacts occur. BitVice also has issues.

[WiseWeasel]

Compressor has been very good for me at around 4-5 Mbps VBR 2-pass, but I usually encode animated content, so YMMV with live-action. Mpeg2enc is also very good, but significantly slower. All hardware encoders are just DSP chips running specially tuned software. A software encoder running on a computer can be just as good, and oftentimes better, as it doesn't have to encode in real-time, like hardware encoders have to, but can take as long as it needs to get the results you desire. The re-encoding process is also a large source of variability. If you decode from MPEG2 (a lossy compressed format) to DV (another lossy compressed format) and then back to MPEG2, obviously, that's going to introduce a huge amount of picture degradation and artifacting. If you decompress the MPEG2 to YUV uncompressed, and then go directly back to MPEG2 at a lower bitrate, you could get much better quality than simply requantizing the original MPEG2, depending on the way the original was encoded and the playtime of the content in question. Sometimes, DVDs are encoded at much higher bitrates than they need to be, and so they requantize well; but other times, it will look like crap if you try to fit it in 4.37 GB, and you have no choice but to reencode or split it if you want acceptable results. Also, there might be issues with Compressor if you try to go directly from MPEG2 to MPEG2 without first fully decoding the entire stream, as that might prevent 2-pass encoding from working properly since it couldn't compare the entire uncompressed stream for each pass, needing to break it up into segments which might interfere with the motion estimation and optimization code. Although it would take up a lot of HD space, you'd get better results decompressing the entire MPEG2 stream before reencoding it.

The other problem with hardware encoders is that they only accept analog source, so you're resampling the content with a lot of quality degradation, whereas a software solution can keep the content in digital form, so it has the potential for much better quality.

[chikanakan]

All very good info and if a users has the knowledge and money (and time on top of that), they can get excellent quality from just about anything. But for most users, they go from DV to MPEG2 with Toast or iDVD.

If they don't have a DL burner, they can still get more on a single layer disc by creating the 8.5GB image and then re-quantizing with Popcorn or DVD2One. Plus, it much faster to re-quantize MPEG2 then it is to re-encode it, and at some point time takes over.

I personally am too cheap and too lazy to waste too much time just for my home movies. And because I an cheap, I want to get as much as I can on a single layer disc (and the fact that DL disc still don't work on set-top players well if the booktype is DL). I can make a 4 hour DVD image in Toast and then use Popcorn to get it on one disc. Most people don't even notice a difference in quality.

[terryj]

at some point time takes over.

I personally am too cheap and too lazy to waste too much time just for my home movies. And because I an cheap, I want to get as much as I can on a single layer disc (and the fact that DL disc still don't work on set-top players well if the booktype is DL). I can make a 4 hour DVD image in Toast and then use Popcorn to get it on one disc. Most people don't even notice a difference in quality.

I never would of thought of doing something like that, until I
started trying various ways to fit SEASONS of episode shows onto disc.

One thing I have started doing now, is doing my builds of 10 half hour shows
(roughly 26 mins minus commercials) in length, authoring in DVDSP3,
and then re-quantinizing through DVDTOX to fit on a DVD-5.
Since the original source was VHS analog, I actually find the result watchable,
and as you said chik, time does become a factor after a while.

Now if someone could come up a 1 button click from start to finish
encode, author, burn all in one option, ( well. maybe 2 clicks )
I'd be HAPPY to look at that...

[ra3ndy]

I've found popcorn works fantastically for simple operations (compress & burn). I've managed several 10-12 episode single layer dvds that playback with good sound and video comparable to the original broadcast quality. For the price, can't miss. If you're a purist who has time for the DVD2oneX learning curve, then by all means, I applaud you. In the meantime, I'll be enjoying my shows.

[macuser25]

Roxio UK now offering Popcorn download.
Discounted pricing for Toast 6 users.

http://www.roxio.co.uk/products/popcorn/index.jhtml