What settings to use to render videos which are the combination of clips fr

[avz10]

I use Cyberlink PowerDirector 13 Ultimate to make my home videos. I am busy editing a project which will be the combination of the clips from 3 cameras.
I want to produce 2 videos, the one a DVD and the other one to be used as a Blu-Ray Disk in future.
The features of the three types of clips are (I took one of each group/camera):

Camera 1:
MTS
Format: BDAV
VBR
Overall bit rate: 17.2
Maximum Overall Bit Rate: 18
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
1920: 1080
FPS: 25
Interlaced

Camera 2:
Format: MP4
Overall bit rate: 16.2
CBR
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
1920: 1080
FPS: 50
Interlaced

Camera 3:
MTS
Format: MPEG-PS
Overall bit rate: 25.7
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
1440: 1080
FPS: 25
Interlaced

What should the settings be for a DVD and a video that might later become a Blu-Ray Disk?

As far as I am aware, for a DVD, the format should be Mpeg 2 with a maximum bit rate of 8. I suppose one should also keep it interlaced. As the FPS is 25 in 2 of the group of clips used, it should stay like that. (I am unsure what is currently the best camera settings to take videos- is it 25 or 50 fps and should one uses interlaced or progressive?).

For the other video, I am more in the dark. The only thing that I am relatively sure of is that the Aspect Ratio should stay 16:9. Otherwise, I am unsure about the max bit rate (I suppose it should not be higher than 16, as the camera 2 clips have an overall maximum of 16.2. I am unsure of the format/container; Variable or Constant Bit Rate; the frames per second and should I keep it interlaced or convert it to progressive?

The other question being, should I have converted all the clips to one format prior to editing? My thoughts were that the mpeg 2/DVD video will be converted twice??

[LMotlow]

The other question being, should I have converted all the clips to one format prior to editing? My thoughts were that the mpeg 2/DVD video will be converted twice??

Why would you convert twice? Convert once.

The final delivery formats you mention have specific requirements and restrictions.

The videos from cameras 1 & 3 can be made to be DVD-compliant. Are you sure the video from Camera 3 is 50fps interlaced? That structure isn't compatible with either HD or DVD BluRay standard formats. Yes, DVD is interlaced. So is BluRay 1920x1080 and 1440x1080 at 25fps. MP4 containers in themselves can't be used for BluRay or DVD. The allowed encoding GOP sizes for BluRay are either 1-second or 2-second GOPs, with bitrate restrictions in each case.

If you want to author a BluRay disk using the Camera 1 and Camera 3 video, the 1440x1080 video will have to be authored as a separate track from the 1920x1080. You can't combine the 1920x1080 and anamorphic 1440x1080 into the same clip. One way around that is to use a common format: resize the 1440x1080 video to 1920x1080. To resize properly, you must deinterlace the 1440 video, resize, and re-interlace.

To get to DVD from Cameras 1 and 3, you must deinterlace, downsample to 720x576, re-interlace, and re-encode with MPEG2 for 16:9 display. The maximum bitrate for DVD is about 9000 kbps, with something like 6500 VBR as a target average bitrate. The maximum GOP size for DVD is 18 frames IIRC, but 13 or 15 frames for video with lots of movement and camera motion would be better. None of this is as easy as it seems. If none of this information makes any sense, you have some research to do. Cyberlink's software is probably one of the worst tools you could use for those tasks. Most members here would not recommend Cyberlink. For anything. The best tool for what you want to do is Avisynth with its many functions and the QTGMC deinterlacer. Most NLE's will do an inferior job.

I don't know what you can do with the 50fps interlaced format. Maybe others here will have some clever ideas.

General specs for DVD, PAL & NTSC: https://www.videohelp.com/dvd#tech
General specs for BluRay/AVCHD: https://www.videohelp.com/hd#tech
More specific specs for BluRay encoding with h264 or MPEG (yes, HD-MPEG is also used for BluRay): http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154533 . Many good BluRay encoding apps will usually help make these parameter decisions for you.

[smrpix]

Don't overthink this. Create a 1920x1080 25fps interlaced project in PD, load your footage up and edit away. There should be no problem mixing and matching your footage. (It's highly likely that your 50 fps interlaced footage is actually 25fps interlaced, so that probably isn't an issue.)

When you're done editing export directly from your timeline as either Blu Ray or DVD compliant media.

Another option would be to output a high bitrate "master" ~35mb as either mpeg 4, mpeg 2 or avchd and use that to create your BR and DVD media.

[LMotlow]

Wait a minute. re-encode twice? Maybe if it's done 3 times, it'll be even better? Using PD is bad enough without that. Tell ya honestly, I'm pretty sure at this point that the owner will never see the difference.

[smrpix]

Wait a minute. re-encode twice? Maybe if it's done 3 times, it'll be even better? Using PD is bad enough without that. Tell ya honestly, I'm pretty sure at this point that the owner will never see the difference.

Are you responding to me? My initial suggestion was that OP not reencode anything until after editing. The only reencode at that point is on the actual output -- which can be directly BR or DVD compliant.

[LMotlow]

How can you output a high bitrate master of an encoded video without re-encoding? To get DVD from that re-encoded master, you'd still have to decode, deinterlace, resize, reintelace, and encode again. How would you propose to get all of them into a high bitrate 1920x1080 master without reencoding? If you suggest doing that in PD with its blah deinterlace and resizers, I'd say it's a tough way of doing it. But I also realize that the owner doesn't understand his source or final formats, so that's the easy way for him. I wouldn't want to see the results, though.

[smrpix]

Completely agree that PD will not output optimum quality, so either save a generation by outputting directly to BR or DVD, or make a (relatively) decent high bitrate HD master. PD is unquestionably the weak link.

[LMotlow]

No one doubts that PD is junkware, but you miss the point. The 1920x1080 doesn't even have to be re-encoded for BluRay. Even with better software, the intermediate re-encode can go for BluRay, but that's re-encode #2 (the original shoot was encode #1). Then you have to take that re-encoded master and start all over again to get DVD, which would be encode #3 and a second deinterlace/resize/reinterlace. That doesn't make much sense.

If the O.P. is obsessed with Cyberlink, wouldn't it be better (in Cyberlink terms, for what it's worth) to take the originals and set them up for BluRay? Then take the originals again and work them for DVD rather than work with an intermediate quality-loss process. In the long run, though, I have some VHS tapes that will look better than the DVD Cyberlink produces. But that's just me. The owner will likely be pleased as punch. But they're his videos, and there are any number of methods that could be used.

Some cameras do shoot 50fps interlaced 1080i, which when deinterlaced runs at 100fps. Other cameras hype up and misstate the statitsics to use "50i" when they really mean 50 interlaced fields per second. Maybe some info about the camera would be useful or a MediaInfo report. But why would the camera 3 video be in an mp4 container? Did the camera format it that way? I'd think we need a little more info. If it really is 50fps interlaced (100 fields per second) the only way I can see to integrate that video with the other two would be to deinterlace and drop alternate frames, then reinterlace for 25i. That would be one stuttery video, for sure.

[avz10]

Apologies for only responding now, but I am just back from work. It is 22h00 in South Africa.

Cameras 1 and 2 are not mine. I was asked as a last minute request to take as much video as I can. I have/had a Canon Legria V40 (camera 3). The camcorder has since broken and according to Canon is "uneconomical to repair". The other two are both JVC Everio's. They looked something like this:
. I have not seen the cameras after that day.

Camera 3, my broken Canon, is obviously older and I was using tapes. Someone was able to copy the tape for me, but I am not sure what software he was using. He gave me a HDV Split version and a mpeg version, the size both in the region of 10 GB. None of the "popular" software could open the HDV split clip.

This is the MediaInfo on that 10 GB video (Camera 3):

General
Complete name                            : E:\Troue\Record - 0001.mpg
Format                                   : MPEG-PS
File size                                : 9.65 GiB
Duration                                 : 53mn 46s
Overall bit rate                         : 25.7 Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 224 (0xE0)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Commercial name                          : HDV 1080i
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@High 1440
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Format settings, picture structure       : Frame
Duration                                 : 53mn 46s
Bit rate                                 : 25.0 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 440 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.643
Time code of first frame                 : 00:00:00:00
Time code source                         : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed                         : Open
Stream size                              : 9.32 GiB (97%)
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio
ID                                       : 192 (0xC0)
Format                                   : MPEG Audio
Format version                           : Version 1
Format profile                           : Layer 2
Duration                                 : 53mn 46s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 384 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -80ms
Stream size                              : 148 MiB (1%)

General
Complete name                            : E:\Troue\HDV_1333 (2015_04_18 21_43_14 UTC).MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : JVT
Codec ID                                 : avc1
File size                                : 60.0 MiB
Duration                                 : 31s 851ms
Overall bit rate                         : 15.8 Mbps
Writing library                          : SEC 
@sec                                     : UNG                        

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L4
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=15
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 31s 840ms
Bit rate                                 : 15.6 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 50.000 fps
Original frame rate                      : 25.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.151
Stream size                              : 59.3 MiB (99%)
Title                                    : HMX-QF20
Language                                 : English

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 31s 851ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 498 KiB (1%)
Title                                    : HMX-QF20
Language                                 : English

My other statement/query was:

The other question being, should I have converted all the clips to one format prior to editing? My thoughts were that the mpeg 2/DVD video will be converted twice??

I know that one loses quality doing all these conversions, but I was thinking prior to starting this, that I might pick up problems with the 1440 x1080 and was contemplating to convert those clips to 1920 x 1080, but eventually thought that this is not the best thing to do.

But I also realize that the owner doesn't understand his source or final formats, so that's the easy way for him.

I just want to correct this-I might not know everything about this, but have since the Cine 8 days tried to keep up. I was fine with my Panasonic NV GS250 and used if I am not mistaken, 3-4 programs to produce a DVD (one included a very early version of TPMGEnc. It was a jump to the Canon, especially as I am only editing now and then, but with three cameras, producing videos with different parameters, it was just a bit much for me. There are actually quite a few threads in Videohelp with audio analog to digital conversion, with the best one I thought the one where old 8mm films were captured on video and we converted this to digital, brought down the framerate, etc. Unfortunately they were removed when Sanlyn departed and I did not copy the scripts and explanations.

Regarding PD, I find the editing section very nice and uncomplicated to work with. I export my edited video to a file and then encode in quite a new TMPGEnc (I think it is version 5 that I have).

Well, there is nothing like trying and I can try different options. (And when I show it to the children who are adults now, they cannot see any difference and I must admit often I am unsure as well, especially with the different VD filters!)

[LMotlow]

From the MediaInfo data, the mp4 video appears to have been 25i at one point, then was deinterlaced to 50fps progressive and encoded as interlaced. I don't think the camera would have done that, but it seems petty odd to have a previous and current frame rate shown (???). For DVD You would have to decode the video, resize to 720x576, separate the top and bottom parts of each frame to form two "fields", then from every group of 4 separated images you'd select the first and third "fields", then weave them to make an interlaced video. Perhaps PD can do this for you, but offhand I don't think it can. Your other choice, and probably one that involves fewer steps, is to resize the 1920x1080 video to anamorphic 1440x1080 to match the frame size of other two clips.

Whatever you do, you have these basic no-nonsense rules to adhere to:
- You can't make DVD from a 50fps video.
- You can't make 1920x1080 or 1440x1080 BluRay from a 50fps video.
- You can't join square-pixel 1080 and anamorphic 1080 in the same clip.
- You can't join clips having two differing frame sizes.
- You can't resize interlaced video. It must be decoded, deinterlaced, resized, reinterlaced, and encoded again.

Don't sell your descendants short. Some of them might very well be able to see better than you or any of us -- although I doubt they'll be upset with you about non-perfect video. Perhaps if you had stated early in the thread that quality was not important and that convenience has top priority, there would not have been so much detailed discussion. The main point is that if you break certain rules with BluRay and DVD your results will not display properly, and might not be playable.