TV longevity

[RabidDog]

MY 2$ .. It sounds like "you are losing the war for want of a horse shoe" . I suspect your rabbit ears aerial are ok for some TVs but for digital and less sensitive Tvs you are not getting a good/any picture. Anybody will tell you that garbage in, Garbage out. So start off with a Good aerial installation.. painful, costly, but worth it.
Now your choice of TV is not limited by a bad signal. It will improve the picture you get on any TV.
MY opinion on LCD/LED/Plasma? Any TV quality is determined more by the thought put into the design, rather than any particular technology. Plasma tend to be cheaper, at the same size, than LCD/LED. YMMV.
Better to get a good quality small set than a bad quality large set.

[MarcMiller]

I have been heating the advice on the above replies about looking into plasma televisions. I have been amazed at the quality picture of some Panasonic plasma televisions. And like you said in the above replies they can sometimes be found at terrific values. My question now is can brand-new 2010 plasma television be expect to last as long as they 2011 one? There are some 2010s which are still available brand-new and even more sensational prices than the 2011s. So is there been any great strides in longevity that wouldn't make you only want a 2011 plasma television?

[smitbret]

I'm not completely up on exactly what has changed from 2010 to 2011, but as far as simply being a television, there will be little or no difference. You may find that things like wireless connectivity or the 3D might be different, but quality of picture and longevity should be identical. Plasma is a relatively mature technology.

[MarcMiller]

smitbret - Thank you for your answer

I wonder if I can engage you in answering another question which is on another thread I just started? Perhaps you haven't commented on that question because you don't have that much of opinion on it. But I would be interested in your perspective just the same. I would be thinking of using this plasma television purchase just as a giant cloned computer monitor of the content present on my computer. What I mean I will produce video content on my computer either from its TV tuner or from a media player playing a video on it and no video content will originate on this new plasma TVs tuner. So my question is this where will the quality parameters in that situation of using your television as just a computer monitor come from? By quality parameters I mean all the things you read about on HDTV reviews like motion artifacting and color accuracy. Will lease things becoming from your big TV being used as a monitor or from the video feed which will always come from your computer via a long overhead HDMI equalized cable?

[handyguy]

HDMI is not analog, so picture is the same. I use a 30' HDMI cable to my TV & the picture is perfect.

With HDMI either you get a picture or you don't.

[orsetto]

No significant difference in budget-priced plasma models from 2010 to 2011. If you choose plasma, go for the most attractive deal.

Re your question about using it as a huge computer monitor: sorry, but that completely changes your options. You can either have a big nice plasma TV screen on a budget that will be useless as a PC monitor, or you can bankrupt yourself to buy a large LCD monitor properly optimized for dual TV and PC use. Using your big TV as a computer monitor is one of the most over-rated geek tricks: it usually looks like crap unless you buy exactly the right TV to match exactly with your current PC video card and scour the internet for exactly the right hidden backdoor adjustments to make the screen usable. There are all sorts of pitfalls involving text, motion, color, aspect ratio, resolution, and other parameters. Choosing a screen for general TV viewing is tricky enough, you throw PC connectivity in there and you'll pull the last of your short hairs out. You'll also end up even more crushed between the plasma vs LCD conundrum. Plasma avoids many LCD<>PC problems but is not as easy to "read" and can be ruined by static images like text and web pages. LCD can be excellent with PC, easy to read and resistant to image burn with static display. But not in the price range you're looking at for larger sizes, and you'd have to be EXTREMELY savvy with serial numbers and do heavy research because of the infuriating "panel lottery" nonsense (every one of the highly recommended LCD sets is subject to this bait-and-switch screen crap). In the budget range, LG LCDs are most popular with gamers and PC users but the tradeoff is spottier performance for regular TV viewing, and one of the worst "panel lottery" risks.

Most any large TV can be temporarily used as a huge PC monitor of middling quality, but if you plan to make a constant habit of it you'll need to rethink your budget and possibly screen sizes.

[jagabo]

If buying an HDTV for use as a computer monitor get a 1080p set with a non-overscan mode. That's pretty much the only way to assure pixel-for-pixel mapping via DVI/HDMI. 720p and 1080p sets with VGA ports usually don't overscan that input. If you can set your computer the the TV's native resolution (720p HDTV's rarely have native 1280x720 displays, they're usually 1024x768, 1366x768, etc.) you can get pixel-for-pixel mapping that way. If you don't use the TV's native resolution Desktop text will be fuzzy or distorted.

[Seeker47]

Re your question about using it as a huge computer monitor: sorry, but that completely changes your options. You can either have a big nice plasma TV screen on a budget that will be useless as a PC monitor, or you can bankrupt yourself to buy a large LCD monitor properly optimized for dual TV and PC use. Using your big TV as a computer monitor is one of the most over-rated geek tricks: it usually looks like crap unless you buy exactly the right TV to match exactly with your current PC video card and scour the internet for exactly the right hidden backdoor adjustments to make the screen usable. There are all sorts of pitfalls involving text, motion, color, aspect ratio, resolution, and other parameters. Choosing a screen for general TV viewing is tricky enough, you throw PC connectivity in there and you'll pull the last of your short hairs out. You'll also end up even more crushed between the plasma vs LCD conundrum.
. . .
Most any large TV can be temporarily used as a huge PC monitor of middling quality, but if you plan to make a constant habit of it you'll need to rethink your budget and possibly screen sizes.

A larger (if not jumbo) and good quality PC Monitor ranks high on my must-have list. Fortunately, I have not had to be on the budget or dual-use track for this. But I've not yet seen anything remotely affordable that was truly a worthy substitute for a good CRT-type PC monitor . . . so I dread the day they are no longer available. My last three of them -- which have been in the 18 - 22" range -- were either from Iiyama or another semi-obscure deluxe brand whose name escapes me just now, and they each lasted 4 - 5 years before something burned out that was not practical to repair. The main priority for this monitor is sharp display on standard business apps, although motion video display looks rather good also -- better than on most of the LCD-type PC monitors I ever auditioned.

[MarcMiller]

If buying an HDTV for use as a computer monitor get a 1080p set with a non-overscan mode. That's pretty much the only way to assure pixel-for-pixel mapping via DVI/HDMI. 720p and 1080p sets with VGA ports usually don't overscan that input. If you can set your computer the the TV's native resolution (720p HDTV's rarely have native 1280x720 displays, they're usually 1024x768, 1366x768, etc.) you can get pixel-for-pixel mapping that way. If you don't use the TV's native resolution Desktop text will be fuzzy or distorted.

Jagabo - I do not know how this changes all that you have said immediately above, but I am not thinking of using a TV as a giant computer monitor for purposes of text or typing on it. My aim is to have a TV that will play every possible video codecs I might download a video to my computer on. I know many televisions will let you play many video codecs through there USB port, but the Sony brand of television I was considering for a while is very limited in the number of codecs is it supports from the USB port. So does that change the situation if I just want to television that place every possible codec and a sensitive tuner for receiving over the air broadcasts what should I get.

I have gotten a better TV antenna at a bargain price so tell me how that affects opinions on what television I should get? The television antenna I have found at a bargain price can be seen at this link and in the picture below.



Also there is software for tweaking monitors independently like UltraMon $40 and others which are far less expensive too. So how does that change your recommendation if at all?

[jagabo]

If buying an HDTV for use as a computer monitor get a 1080p set with a non-overscan mode...

Jagabo - I do not know how this changes all that you have said immediately above, but I am not thinking of using a TV as a giant computer monitor for purposes of text or typing on it. My aim is to have a TV that will play every possible video codecs I might download a video to my computer on.

If watching video is all you plan to do then it's not critical to get a 1080p set with no overscan.

[MarcMiller]

If buying an HDTV for use as a computer monitor get a 1080p set with a non-overscan mode...

Jagabo - I do not know how this changes all that you have said immediately above, but I am not thinking of using a TV as a giant computer monitor for purposes of text or typing on it. My aim is to have a TV that will play every possible video codecs I might download a video to my computer on.

If watching video is all you plan to do then it's not critical to get a 1080p set with no overscan.

Well how would a Panasonic plasma bargain deal television work with sending everything over and HDMI cable, videos, and computer tuner TV, work quality wise? I know I can get a sensitive tuner as a computer card. I am presently testing and LG television which I can return to Wal-Mart by the end of October. But for some strange reason when I send videos to it over and HDMI cable for videos are darker than they are on my computer and for some reason however strange the LG television gives me no adjustability of the video going to it over the HDMI cable. I mean no contrast brightness or anything like that. Does anybody know how many televisions act like that? I mean losing all control ability when you input from the HDMI port.

[smartel]

can a projector be an option ?

[jagabo]

I am presently testing and LG television which I can return to Wal-Mart by the end of October. But for some strange reason when I send videos to it over and HDMI cable for videos are darker than they are on my computer and for some reason however strange the LG television gives me no adjustability of the video going to it over the HDMI cable. I mean no contrast brightness or anything like that.

That's odd. All my HDTVs' proc amp controls allow adjustment of HDMI sources. A guess: you are sending RGB over HDMI and the TV is assuming that doesn't need adjustment. Try setting the computer to output YPbPr or YCbCr instead. If you can't do that, or the TV still won't allow you to adjust the picture, use the graphics card's video proc amp controls to adjust the display with a levels/color test pattern.

Are you running a dual monitor setup? There will probably be separate video proc amp controls for each.

[orsetto]

Well how would a Panasonic plasma bargain deal television work with sending everything over and HDMI cable, videos, and computer tuner TV, work quality wise? I am presently testing and LG television [...] for some strange reason when I send videos to it over and HDMI cable for videos are darker than they are on my computer and for some reason however strange the LG television gives me no adjustability of the video going to it over the HDMI cable. I mean no contrast brightness or anything like that. Does anybody know how many televisions act like that? I mean losing all control ability when you input from the HDMI port.

The problem is two fold: computer HDMI or DVI or VGA (or whatever) output is never exactly what a screen sold for TV use expects, and the TVs tend to have very limited ability to deal with hopelessly funky files you get off websites, even mainstream sources (somebody inevitably bungles the codec, to a degree that a PC can figure out how to play it on its own monitor but you can't do a damn thing with it otherwise). Plus, as you've seen, some televisions limit or freeze the picture adjustment when connected to a PC. You should be able to find a back door into the LG picture controls, LGs are primarily bought by gamers who want to hook up PlayStation or xBox via HDMI. The controls when connected to a PC can be very confusing and counterintuitive: to even access them you sometimes have to "lie" to the TV and override its assumptions about the signal. It isn't something your average Joe is going to have a clue about: each TV works differently, the TV instruction manuals are gibberish, and store salespeople uninformative.

If you don't have a lot of money to spend or time to waste on research, just forget the whole "watch videos from my PC" idea. You are much better off getting the Panasonic TV deal, then later picking up a separate HDD-based dedicated media player that is designed to be compatible with TVs. You'd have to load the files from your computer onto the player, or network it, but this is a lot quicker and easier than going nuts with the TV each time you want to play something via direct computer connection. The TVs with built-in decoders for direct playback from USB files usually disappoint in that mode. Something like the Western Digital TV Live costs $150-200 and makes a very effective buffer between PC and TV.

[jagabo]

The problem is two fold: computer HDMI or DVI or VGA (or whatever) output is never exactly what a screen sold for TV use expects,

There's no reason a computer, when playing a blu-rap rip, say, can't be set up to output exactly the same thing a Blu-ray player would, unmolested YPbPr right from the disc/file. Though, I admit, it can be a bit tricky in Windows Vista and 7.

and the TVs tend to have very limited ability to deal with hopelessly funky files you get off websites, even mainstream sources (somebody inevitably bungles the codec, to a degree that a PC can figure out how to play it on its own monitor but you can't do a damn thing with it otherwise).

But that issue is the same no matter what computer, player, monitor, or TV he uses.

[MarcMiller]

Try setting the computer to output YPbPr or YCbCr instead. If you can't do that, or the TV still won't allow you to adjust the picture, use the graphics card's video proc amp controls to adjust the display with a levels/color test pattern.

I need some help in what you proposed above. Where would you find the place to change the settings of YPbPr or YCbCr on a Windows Vista 64-bit computer?

Are you running a dual monitor setup? There will probably be separate video proc amp controls for each.

I am running NVIDIA video cards monitor setup, but do not find separate video proc amp controls. I am thinking of going to third-party video card drivers. Can anybody suggest what other video card drivers I might try for home theater purposes only I do not use my video card for gaming at all? And what would be the procedure no longer using the NVIDIA video card drivers? Do you just find those, drivers in add and removed programs, like any other program? Are there any tricks in installing third-party video drivers on your video card?

[jagabo]

Try setting the computer to output YPbPr or YCbCr instead.

I need some help in what you proposed above. Where would you find the place to change the settings of YPbPr or YCbCr on a Windows Vista 64-bit computer?

When I had a NVIDIA card hooked up to my TV I could get YCbCr by selecting 1080i as the output, not 1080p.

Are you running a dual monitor setup? There will probably be separate video proc amp controls for each.

I am running NVIDIA video cards monitor setup, but do not find separate video proc amp controls.

Some have it, some don't. If your card supports it there will usually be two monitor icons in the proc amp controls -- you select which you are settings via that.

I am thinking of going to third-party video card drivers. Can anybody suggest what other video card drivers I might try for home theater purposes

As far as I know, there are no third party drivers for Windows.

[fritzi93]

Apologies in advance to Orsetto, who is very knowledgeable about HDTVs...

I have no problem hooking up my HTPC to either of my HDTVs, a 720p plasma and a 1080p LCD. I set the output of my Radeon video card to either standard 720p or 1080p, Scaling options to no overscan, and connect via DVI-> HDMI adapter and HDMI cable. (Audio routed separately through a receiver, of course). Easy.

Proc amp controls work as expected. There is one oddity, though. If I set the output of my Blu-Ray player to YCbCr (4:4:4), the color is screwed on the plasma when I switch back to the HTPC input, requiring me to cycle the TV. RGB and YCbCr (4:2:2) don't exhibit that problem.

[orsetto]

The issue boils down to yet another case of "it depends." Depends on your specific computer, the files you want to play on the TV, the connection you have available, and the TV itself. For some some people its plug n play, for others its a nigtmare of buried settings or incompatibility leading to set swapping. It helps if you're a geek who can intuitively suss out the glitches, and it helps if you have a newer dedicated "HTPC" as opposed to a generic PC assembled from who-knows-what various parts. And of course it helps to have a wide open limit on your credit card.

Maybe I'm reading Marc Miller wrong, but I keep coming back to the issue of "budget." Someone shopping a $449 42" or 50" plasma has different options and capabilities available than someone with $1199 to blow on the latest LCD design. Plasma is usually 720p, and 720p sets seem to have the most glitches when connected to PCs. OTOH the current plasmas have evolved as far as they're ever gonna go and by now should have improved PC ability, certainly on the Panasonics and Samsungs. Some LCDs hook up to PC in a jiffy, others require lotsa fussing or should be avoided altogether as PC displays: if you decide LCD is the better fit for your eyes and environment, its a good idea to visit dedicated threads here and elsewhere devoted to the question of "LCD TV For PC Use". Those threads tend to be brand-specific, so perhaps you should go to a showroom first to narrow down LCD brands/sizes you like most and then search out user reports of how to optimize their settings for PC.

[fritzi93]

Right, I'm not silly enough to generalize from my experience. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I have tried hooking my plasma up via VGA and that's a problem alright. Even at the native resolution.

Anyway, I should think the OP should at least try my suggestion (HDMI at standard 720p or 1080p, using scaling options to fix the overscan). I haven't had an nVidia card in a while so I dunno exactly how overscan is adjusted.

[MarcMiller]

I am sorry if I made any body here expend undue effort in talking about plasma TV. I was really thinking about plasma, but recently reviewing what a deal on getting on the LG 42lk450 makes me think I will probably stick with it. Although it is not very suited for over the air TV which is what I can afford and use. The LG gives a good television picture using my 75 foot equalized HDMI cable into its HDMI port. It does have a glitch of losing all adjustability of contrast and brightness, but I am able to achieve that by adjusting the video card settings on my computer. This does get slightly work intensive however. What I am presently doing is using a software program called TeamPlayer which lets you have the capability of having two curses and keyboards working simultaneously on both cloned computer screens. You can then go in and change the adjustments on which ever monitor your sitting in front of the to suits your viewing on that monitor. I do wish I had a way of his changing settings or upgrading my video card or its drivers to let me have two monitors settings while cloning monitors. Also I have not experienced problems with reading text off the TV monitor even without choosing just the right TV or video card for that purpose. It does seem to be a need to read the text at computer like viewing distances even though my eyes are good with glasses on. But I am not interested in a TV monitor with a heavy typing capability and doing all those things one does on a computer. I do have interest in using the TV for viewing U-TUBE channels and a like.

Any further help would be greatly appreciated and thanks for all the feedback.

[usually_quiet]

I am sorry if I made any body here expend undue effort in talking about plasma TV. I was really thinking about plasma, but recently reviewing what a deal on getting on the LG 42lk450 makes me think I will probably stick with it. Although it is not very suited for over the air TV which is what I can afford and use. The LG gives a good television picture using my 75 foot equalized HDMI cable into its HDMI port. It does have a glitch of losing all adjustability of contrast and brightness, but I am able to achieve that by adjusting the video card settings on my computer. This does get slightly work intensive however. What I am presently doing is using a software program called TeamPlayer which lets you have the capability of having two curses and keyboards working simultaneously on both cloned computer screens. You can then go in and change the adjustments on which ever monitor your sitting in front of the to suits your viewing on that monitor. I do wish I had a way of his changing settings or upgrading my video card or its drivers to let me have two monitors settings while cloning monitors. Also I have not experienced problems with reading text off the TV monitor even without choosing just the right TV or video card for that purpose. It does seem to be a need to read the text at computer like viewing distances even though my eyes are good with glasses on. But I am not interested in a TV monitor with a heavy typing capability and doing all those things one does on a computer. I do have interest in using the TV for viewing U-TUBE channels and a like.

Any further help would be greatly appreciated and thanks for all the feedback.

You say you the LG TV that you currently have will not tune any channels from an antenna. Your LG's tuner should not be inferior to that supplied with a Samsung, Panasonic, or any other big-name brand. I can tell you the tuner in a ATSC TV device that you buy for use with a PC will not perform as well as one supplied with a current model TV from a well-known maker.

I presume you have gone through the set up procedure for OTA/ATSC detailed in the manual, have an antenna that is capable of providing good reception, have pointed the antenna correctly, and have verified the antenna is working. If so, have you considered that the tuner in your set is defective? If that is the case, the defect should be covered by the warranty.

[MarcMiller]

I presume you have gone through the set up procedure for OTA/ATSC detailed in the manual, have an antenna that is capable of providing good reception, have pointed the antenna correctly, and have verified the antenna is working. If so, have you considered that the tuner in your set is defective? If that is the case, the defect should be covered by the warranty.

Your presumptions about using inadequate antenna pointing in the right direction are correct. But I have not looked into the LG manual very thoroughly on over the air TV other than doing a channel scan for channels and finding none. I do find it there PCTV computer tuner card picks up all the stations I expect. I am thinking of exchanging it for a computer tuner card that I think will be even better. I did find that one I was using my digital conversion coupon a tuner adapter for my old CRT television (now broken) that all TV tuner converter is did not have the same sensitivity. Some of the sensitivities on the TV tuner converter were much better than others and I tried quite a few before I decided on the one I kept. Well I will certainly check the LG TV manual, but I'm not certain of your insertion that LG's should just have the same sensitivity as all other brands of TVs. Searching the Internet I found another forum where there was a thread where people were talking about Panasonic televisions being the most sensitive.

[usually_quiet]

I presume you have gone through the set up procedure for OTA/ATSC detailed in the manual, have an antenna that is capable of providing good reception, have pointed the antenna correctly, and have verified the antenna is working. If so, have you considered that the tuner in your set is defective? If that is the case, the defect should be covered by the warranty.

Your presumptions about using inadequate antenna pointing in the right direction are correct. But I have not looked into the LG manual very thoroughly on over the air TV other than doing a channel scan for channels and finding none. I do find it there PCTV computer tuner card picks up all the stations I expect. I am thinking of exchanging it for a computer tuner card that I think will be even better. I did find that one I was using my digital conversion coupon a tuner adapter for my old CRT television (now broken) that all TV tuner converter is did not have the same sensitivity. Some of the sensitivities on the TV tuner converter were much better than others and I tried quite a few before I decided on the one I kept. Well I will certainly check the LG TV manual, but I'm not certain of your insertion that LG's should just have the same sensitivity as all other brands of TVs. Searching the Internet I found another forum where there was a thread where people were talking about Panasonic televisions being the most sensitive.

The coupon-elegible converter boxes from 2008-2009 were designed to sell for $40 to $70. (I have two BTW.) They generally used older, less expensive and inferior tuner designs compared to the tuners used in big-name LCD TVs of the time.

If a converter box worked in your location, the tuner in any new LG TV should work as just well, if not better. Tuners are now a few generations beyond the ones available then. I don't know if the problem is caused by user error, an antenna problem, or a bad part in the TV, but something is wrong if it you are unable to receive any of the channels that you used to get.

However, there is every indication that you are the kind of person who must see everything for himself, so I'm now done offering you advice. Good luck.

[jagabo]

But I have not looked into the LG manual very thoroughly on over the air TV other than doing a channel scan for channels and finding none.

Maybe you scanned for QAM (digital cable) channels, not ATSC (digtial over-the-air) channels?

[MarcMiller]

Maybe you scanned for QAM (digital cable) channels, not ATSC (digtial over-the-air) channels?

OK-I took the trouble of trying it again with the antenna in exactly the right position and manually tuning to every possible ATSC channel and could not receive any nor get any signal indication either. I simply think the LG television tuner is very insensitive.