Highest quality deck for capturing D-3 tapes

[rgreen]

Hi All,
Hopefully all you "old timers" (or any age that like a challenge) will help me out here as I need to capture about 40 films that are stored on D-3 tapes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-3_(video). Here is what I know.
1. The video deck that was developed at the time (1991) was the Panasonic AJ-D360 , which is a composite video deck . here are some links to current decks https://www.ebay.com/itm/PANASONIC-AJ-D350-D3-NTSC-VIDEO-CASSETTE-RECORDER/26428813243...4AAOSweuBct9Rt

2. The D-5 was the "newer" model and according to wikipedia "it is an uncompressed digital component system (10-bit), but uses the same half-inch tapes as Panasonic's digital composite D-3 format." There are many panasonic D-5 decks including the AJ-HD3700B available. These are video decks that I can find but after talking to video rental companies the big question of whether a D-3 can play on a D-5 machine is uncertain and mixed answers. I've heard that their was a special, expensive D-5 model that allowed for this and big companies like Warner Bros and possibly BBC had these. But seems the D-3 tape and d-5 tape size are the same and a couple of people said "it might work". Not sure why I cannot use the HD3700. The big advantage of using a D-5 deck is that their is a SDI HD out port that will increase the quality

3. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on how to play/capture content from a 1/2 inch D-3 tape using a Panasonic (or other) D-5 deck?

Thank you very, very much!! rg

[Brad]

The specs for AJ-D580 note: D3 playback capability with optional playback adaptor AJ-PB35.

BUT...

Case 3: the bits are available, but a clone is not made: this is the case for the BBC’s D3 preservation project (Ingex Archive, 2009). The problem is that the format is composite PAL, not component. New use of the content, whether for editing or for broadcast, requires a component signal, so the BBC included PAL decoding in the workflow, and saved the result of that decoding, not the direct output from the D3 playback.

Conclusions for preservation of digital data not in files:
...

• Case 3: engineers argue about what to do about colour decoding (going from composite to component). If the particular composite format is obsolete (as with D3) then there is a case for not saving the artefact, and instead decoding to component.

BBC diagrams from whitepapers 155 & 167. Indeed, they output digital composite 4fsc via Parallel port, which they decode into component using their custom-built hardware.


[Attachment 50322 - Click to enlarge]



[Attachment 50323 - Click to enlarge]

You may have to settle for SDI capture from a suitably-equipped D-5 deck rather than the "absolute best" possible. Unless you want to tinker with figuring out how to capture data from the Parallel port to use with a software comb filter like ld-decode's.

[rgreen]

wow. thanks for this. Seems my options are:
1. As you suggest an "SDI capture from a suitably-equipped D-5 deck". The only deck seems to be AJ-D580 (D5 VTR) with AJ-PB35 daughter board. This appears to be the most straight forward approach. Problem is that this combination of hardware is very difficult to source based on what I've seen or could be cost prohibitive.
2. Also as you suggest "tinker with figuring out how to capture data from the Parallel port". This seems to be the BBC workflow but with a "modern day" approach using a D-3 deck but using software to go from composite to component. Your attachment 50322. But why use the capture from the parallel port vs the BNC port and a blackmagic or similar converter from analog to SDI? Would the parallel port give a better raw uncompressed data? Attached is a photo showing the ports of the AJ-D360 (D3 VTR) which might be available.

A third option might be SDI capture from a D-5 deck that does not have a daughter card but easier to source the hardware and if this works use software decode from composite to component. Not sure this is even possible but because the tape sizes (1/2) seem to be the same between D-3 and D-5 might work. Will call this third option "SDI capture from an unsuitably-equipped D-5 deck"
thanks again...

[Brad]

A third option might be SDI capture from a D-5 deck that does not have a daughter card but easier to source the hardware and if this works use software decode from composite to component. Not sure this is even possible but because the tape sizes (1/2) seem to be the same between D-3 and D-5 might work. Will call this third option "SDI capture from an unsuitably-equipped D-5 deck"

I don't think a D-3 tape played on a D-5 deck with no conversion circuitry will produce a usable signal.

But why use the capture from the parallel port vs the BNC port and a blackmagic or similar converter from analog to SDI? Would the parallel port give a better raw uncompressed data? Attached is a photo showing the ports of the AJ-D360 (D3 VTR) which might be available.

Okay, I was unaware that there were D-3 decks equipped with SDI.

Further research indicates that these aren't your typical SDI component ports. They would be passing 4fsc composite digital just like the parallel port; only difference being the way the data is arranged and transmitted. So, no advantage to parallel, if hardware to dump this data from the SDI port exists. Perhaps the BBC chose Parallel only because decks without SDI are more common.

SMPTE 259M defines four operating data rates that are listed as levels of support:
• Level A- 143 Mbps NTSC
• Level B- 177 Mbps PAL
• Level C- 270 Mbps 525/625 Component(4:3 aspect ratio)
• Level D- 360 Mbps 525/625 Component(16:9 aspect ratio)

To be considered SMPTE 259M compliant, a piece of equipment must support at least one of these data rates.

I don't have time at the moment to research any further, but it seems to me you have four possibilities:

A) D-3 deck or backward-compatible D-5 deck: capture analog composite via (analog BNC jack), converted to digital component by capture card. Some loss incurred by digital → analog → digital conversion. Comb filter quality depends on which capture card you use. This is the most straight-forward approach.

B) Backwards-compatible D-5 deck: capture digital component via SDI (digital BNC jack). No analog loss. Unknown comb filter quality; composite decoding into component is done by circuit inside deck.

C) D-3 deck: capture digital 4fsc composite via SDI (digital BNC jack). No analog loss. Does a capture card exist to do this directly? It would have to internally comb filter the data and present it as a digital component file. Or maybe there is hardware to convert from SMPTE 259M-A to SMPTE 259M-C, in which case that would be the comb filter and you'd use a regular SDI component capture card.

D) D-3 deck: dump raw digital 4fsc composite via SDI (digital BNC jack) somehow. Then a software comb filter would be needed, but you have the advantage of actually backing up the data from the tape.

I don't know whether C or D are actually doable.

[johns0]

Moved the thread to the capturing forum where you can get more help.