I'm In Over My Head--OR-- Buyer's Remorse

[Skyb1ue]

This will probably be the only thread I ever start here because I think I'm in over my head after a camera purchase that I obviously wasn't ready for, and I'm just about ready to throw in the towel.

Here's the deal. I just wanted to make 10-min. recordings of my bike rides in some pretty settings around town and post them on YouTube. I did this a couple of times with my smart phone-- by simply holding it with one hand. When I put it on YouTube, the quality wasn't so good, but at least the audio I chose for it kinda made up for the fuzziness. Well, someone suggested a Go-Pro and I went for it, except that I ended up choosing a Yi 4K instead. After playing with it the past few days, I've got "buyer's remorse" because I just can't figure out how to come up with a file size that is small enough to work with, i.e., to download to the phone app or to my laptop, edit it minimally, and then upload it to YouTube. So in a nutshell, that's it. My question is: Is there a trick to ending up with a manageable file size to upload to YouTube while maintaining quality???

FOR EXAMPLE, I shot a 9 min. video a while ago in 1280 X 720 at 60 fps. After downloading to my laptop, the resulting MP4 file is over 2 GB. The resulting _thm.MP4 file is 81 MB. I also downloaded it to my smart phone's Yi Action App, and since there wasn't enough space on my phone, it had to be downloaded in SD which resulted in the same 81 MB file as the _thm.MP4 that I directly downloaded from the camera to the laptop. (Duh.) I wouldn't even want to try working with the SD version of the "movie," as I know it would look pretty crummy once on YouTube. So that leaves me with the 2 GB version, but THAT is just too, too, big. I mean, wouldn't it take forever to upload to YouTube??

If no one has an easy solution for me, I guess I better try to return the Yi 4K and forget about video-journaling bike rides and just enjoy the scenery for myself!

Thanks.

[Skyb1ue]

Why did my post turn out all vertical like that???

[KarMa]

What is your upload rate?

Anyway you can use something like Handbrake to compress your video with x264. Use something like CRF 18 and one of the slower presets. Higher CRFs give lower quality but smaller file sizes, a CRF of 18 is usually considered to give transparent quality to the source.

[raffriff42]

Agree with the Handbrake suggestion, unless you want to trim your videos, in which case I'd suggest XMedia Recode.
Unless the software you are using now (did it come with the camera?) can be set for better quality. What is it called?

After compressing at crf=18, I would expect the file size to shrink from 2GB to 500-800MB. I wouldn't try to compress action videos any more than that.

[jagabo]

If you want files of a specific size use bitrate based encoding: two (or more) passes, variable bitrate. The encoder will give you the best quality it can for that file size (and the other settings used).

With bitrate based encoding you get the size you want but you don't know what the quality will be.

With quality based encoding (RF, CRF, QP) you get the quality you want but you don't know what the size will be.

[johnmeyer]

Actually, I don't think you need to get involved with recompressing and trying to understand Handbrake. Instead, learn to use the menus on the GoPro and set the camera to take video in 1920x1080 (HD) instead of 4K.


Yes, I know, you feel like you paid for the 4K and want to use that. I have used quite a few 4K cameras but I often set them to HD instead of 4K. Why? Well, as you found out, 4K is very difficult to edit, unless you have a powerful computer and just the right software. By contrast, HD is easy. Also, the extra resolution of 4K is only going to show up if you play your video on a REALLY big display, way over 60".

If you shoot initially in HD, you shouldn't need to re-encode with Handbrake.

So what good is 4K? Well, it is great if you need to zoom into your image in post production and want to still maintain full HD quality for the final render. It is also useful if you are doing theatrical work (i.e., creating a Hollywood movie). Finally, it is useful if you have a really, really big display, or are going to project it onto a big screen.

Try taking some HD and see how it goes. Then, when you've got it running, perhaps you can post a great GoPro bike video, like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hvfYvqS-bE

[JVRaines]

Actually, I don't think you need to get involved with recompressing and trying to understand Handbrake. Instead, learn to use the menus on the GoPro and set the camera to take video in 1920x1080 (HD) instead of 4K.

The OP is complaining about a 1280×720 video he shot, so I don't think this advice is germaine.

[Skyb1ue]

Is using Handbrake similar to Exporting a video file in QuickTime? If "no," I will try that. If "yes," then:
After I save a video in QT-Pro (QT7), I'm presented with a ton of options for "exporting" the file, and I'm guessing that each option will compress the file to various degrees. So, which option do I choose to get the best quality/small file size combination like the CRF-18 option of Handbrake?

I am attaching screen captures of the QT options:

Under "Export for Web," there are options seen in first screen shot. No, in the second screen shot.
Under "Export As" there are options seen in second screen shot. No, these options are in the third screen shot.
Under "To Export, Use" there are options seen in third screen shot. No, these are in the FIRST screen shot!
(I hope I'm uploading these screen shots correctly.)

[Skyb1ue]

I keep uploading the wrong screen shot.

[Skyb1ue]

[jagabo]

file size = bitrate * running time

So if you want a smaller file use a lower bitrate.

[Skyb1ue]

Oh my gosh, getting those screen shots labeled right and uploaded was traumatic. I think I need a root beer now... So I can concentrate on y'all's replies. Thank you for your patience.

[Skyb1ue]

Unless the software you are using now (did it come with the camera?) can be set for better quality. What is it called?

The only "software" is in the form of an app called Yi Action App.

But after downloading the video to my laptop, I usually open it in QuickTime Pro to trim and maybe add audio. Since I have a MacBook Pro, I also have iMovie, but I've always found it to be kind of *counterintuitive compared to QT... though I'm willing to learn if y'all think it would yield me better results than QT. Thanks, raffriff42.

_________
* But I'm beginning to think that everything having to do with digital photography/videography is counterintuitive to me.

[Skyb1ue]

If you want files of a specific size use bitrate based encoding: two (or more) passes, variable bitrate. The encoder will give you the best quality it can for that file size (and the other settings used).

With bitrate based encoding you get the size you want but you don't know what the quality will be.

With quality based encoding (RF, CRF, QP) you get the quality you want but you don't know what the size will be.

The main reason I'm concerned about size is because of the length of time it takes to upload to YouTube. If my internet connection hiccups during a long upload, I'd have to start all over.

[raffriff42]

Quicktime Pro should be fine.
LAN/Intranet or
Broadband - High might be good presets to try.
Can you screencap the Options ?

The main reason I'm concerned about size is because of the length of time it takes to upload to YouTube. If my internet connection hiccups during a long upload, I'd have to start all over.

On the other hand, you can't go too low, or the video will look terrible. You Tube always re-encodes the video (which exaggerates any compression artifacts), so your source should be as clean as possible.

[Skyb1ue]

Actually, I don't think you need to get involved with recompressing and trying to understand Handbrake. Instead, learn to use the menus on the GoPro and set the camera to take video in 1920x1080 (HD) instead of 4K.


Yes, I know, you feel like you paid for the 4K and want to use that. I have used quite a few 4K cameras but I often set them to HD instead of 4K. Why? Well, as you found out, 4K is very difficult to edit, unless you have a powerful computer and just the right software. By contrast, HD is easy. Also, the extra resolution of 4K is only going to show up if you play your video on a REALLY big display, way over 60".

If you shoot initially in HD, you shouldn't need to re-encode with Handbrake.

So what good is 4K? Well, it is great if you need to zoom into your image in post production and want to still maintain full HD quality for the final render. It is also useful if you are doing theatrical work (i.e., creating a Hollywood movie). Finally, it is useful if you have a really, really big display, or are going to project it onto a big screen.

Try taking some HD and see how it goes. Then, when you've got it running, perhaps you can post a great GoPro bike video, like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hvfYvqS-bE

Hi, John. I really didn't have shooting in 4K in mind when I bought the camera. I just wanted a good quality, light weight action cam that I could clamp on so I can ride with both hands. So 4K vs. HD isn't an issue for me. It's more an issue of finding out how to get the highest quality I can in a manageable file size. Hope that makes sense.

[aedipuss]

there's nothing wrong with uploading the original 2gb file to youtube. i assume you aren't using an old 1200 baud phone modem. if you have decent upload speed just let it run in the background and the final product will be better on youtube.

i upload much larger ones

[Skyb1ue]

Quicktime Pro should be fine.
LAN/Intranet or
Broadband - High might be good presets to try.
Can you screencap the Options ?

I'll try.....

[jagabo]

The Fast Start option doesn't effect file size. It simply places the header data at the start of the file rather than at the end.

[Skyb1ue]

there's nothing wrong with uploading the original 2gb file to youtube. i assume you aren't using an old 1200 baud phone modem. if you have decent upload speed just let it run in the background and the final product will be better on youtube.

i upload much larger ones

I have "high speed internet" from AT&T.... But the bike ride that I DID post to YouTube was 267 MB, and it took over half an hour. How long should it take to upload a 2 GB video to YouTube? KarMa asked what my upload rate is...

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5851587960

[johnmeyer]

The OP is complaining about a 1280×720 video he shot, so I don't think this advice is germaine.

I'm an idiot. I read this in post #1: "except that I ended up choosing a Yi 4K instead" and completely missed his later statement that he was having problems with a 1280x720 video.

[raffriff42]

If you get a lot of Internet hiccups, you need an application that allows resumable uploads. Searching around, I found Video Uploader for YouTube by CodeCraft, but being a Windows user I don't know if it's any good.

[KarMa]

I have "high speed internet" from AT&T.... But the bike ride that I DID post to YouTube was 267 MB, and it took over half an hour. How long should it take to upload a 2 GB video to YouTube? KarMa asked what my upload rate is...

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5851587960

Should take nearly 7 hours on your internet, assuming you don't use the upload bandwidth for anything else during that time. Would be faster to re-encode it, through something like Handbrake.

Can use this calculator in the future. http://www.dslreports.com/calculator

there's nothing wrong with uploading the original 2gb file to youtube. i assume you aren't using an old 1200 baud phone modem. if you have decent upload speed just let it run in the background and the final product will be better on youtube.

i upload much larger ones

It would take me ~20hrs to upload the same file. American ISP monopolies are great.