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  1. Asking for a friend, who wants to capture and store SD video in DVCPRO50 format The capture card captures in TFF. All flavors of DV are supposed to be BFF. Frankly, I can change field order as well as PAR in Vegas very easily, but I want metadata to be correct for the format (BFF for DV) and for actual encoded video to be in sync with metadata.

    I tried removing top line and add a line on the bottom and it did not look good. Instead of two distinct fields I get one clean field and another sort of blurry merged field made of I don't know what.

    I found Reverse Field Dominance by Donald A. Graft, which seems to work. To verify, I add Reverse Field Dominance to Filters, and then I add Deinterlace / Bob / Double Frame Rate / BFF, and I get 50 clean and unique pictures per second. So this works. I turn off deinterlacing and output into AVI using either Cedocida DVCPRO50 or just DVCPRO 50, which seems to be Canopus's encoder. Either way, when I check metadata with MediaInfo, or when I drop it to Vegas, I see progressive scan and PAR 1. I want to see BFF and PAR that corresponds to DV PAL (1.0926).

    Question: how do I get correct metadata in the output file from VirtualDub2? If I cannot do this when rendering the file in VirtualDub2, how can I update metadata of an already rendered AVI file? I looked around and made this out of, like, three or four ffmpeg commands:

    Code:
    ffmpeg.exe -i  input.avi -c:v copy -aspect 1.3625 -vf "fieldorder=bff" -c:a copy output.avi
    The file is 720x576 PAL, so accounting for the overscan I figured that aspect ratio should be something like 1.36. The above command does not work, it says:

    Filtergraph 'fieldorder=bff' was defined for video output stream 0:0 but codec copy was selected.
    Filtering and streamcopy cannot be used together.


    Ok, so I cannot just update the metadata and I need to re-encode? I looked at the ffmpeg output, and it says:

    Code:
    Stream #0:0: Video: dvvideo (dv50 / 0x30357664), yuv422p, 720x576 [SAR 16:15 DAR 4:3], 57685 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 25 tbc
    Stream #0:1: Audio: pcm_s16le ([1][0][0][0] / 0x0001), 48000 Hz, 2 channels, s16, 1536 kb/s
    So I tried specifying "dvvideo" and it worked! I wonder where ffmpeg pulls this codec from, and how did it figure it had to use 4:2:2 variant.

    Code:
    ffmpeg -i  input.avi -c:v dvvideo -aspect 1.3625 -vf "fieldorder=bff" -c:a copy output.avi
    Code:
    Input #0, avi, from 'input.avi':
      Duration: 00:00:27.12, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 59148 kb/s
        Stream #0:0: Video: dvvideo (dv50 / 0x30357664), yuv422p, 720x576 [SAR 16:15 DAR 4:3], 57685 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 25 tbc
        Stream #0:1: Audio: pcm_s16le ([1][0][0][0] / 0x0001), 48000 Hz, 2 channels, s16, 1536 kb/s
    Output #0, avi, to 'output2.avi':
      Metadata:
        ISFT            : Lavf56.40.100
        Stream #0:0: Video: dvvideo (dvsd / 0x64737664), yuv422p, 720x576 [SAR 109:100 DAR 109:80], q=2-31, 200 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbn, 25 tbc
        Metadata:
          encoder         : Lavc56.46.100 dvvideo
        Stream #0:1: Audio: pcm_s16le ([1][0][0][0] / 0x0001), 48000 Hz, stereo, 1536 kb/s
    Stream mapping:
      Stream #0:0 -> #0:0 (dvvideo (native) -> dvvideo (native))
      Stream #0:1 -> #0:1 (copy)
    MediaInfo says:

    Code:
    General
    Format                           : AVI
    Format/Info                      : Audio Video Interleave
    Format_Commercial_IfAny          : DVCPRO 50
    File size                        : 191 MiB
    Duration                         : 27s 120ms
    Overall bit rate                 : 59.2 Mbps
    Writing application              : Lavf56.40.100
    
    Video
    ID                               : 0
    Format                           : DV
    Format_Commercial_IfAny          : DVCPRO 50
    Codec ID                         : dvsd
    Codec ID/Hint                    : Sony
    Duration                         : 27s 120ms
    Bit rate mode                    : Constant
    Bit rate                         : 48.9 Mbps
    Width                            : 720 pixels
    Height                           : 576 pixels
    Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
    Frame rate mode                  : Constant
    Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
    Standard                         : PAL
    Color space                      : YUV
    Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:2
    Bit depth                        : 8 bits
    Scan type                        : Interlaced
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 4.715
    Stream size                      : 186 MiB (97%)
    
    Audio
    Format                           : PCM
    Format settings, Endianness      : Little
    Format settings, Sign            : Unsigned
    Codec ID                         : 1
    Codec ID/Hint                    : Microsoft
    Duration                         : 27s 120ms
    Bit rate mode                    : Constant
    Bit rate                         : 1 536 Kbps
    Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
    Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
    Bit depth                        : 16 bits
    Stream size                      : 4.97 MiB (3%)
    Interleave, duration             : 20 ms (0.50 video frame)
    No idea, how DVCPRO 50 was encoded with a Sony mark.

    The numbers above look good to me! But when I load it into Vegas, Vegas 13 shows TFF and correct PAR, while Vegas 14 shows progressive and PAR 1 (yes, I use old Vegas versions). The worst, Vegas does not show video! It is just black screen. But other tools like MPC-HC can play it, no problem. OTOH, Vegas has no problem loading DV/DVCPRO50 files rendered out of VDub2. This is what MPC-HC says:

    Code:
    General
    Format                         : AVI
    Format/Info                    : Audio Video Interleave
    Commercial name                : DV
    File size                      : 191 MiB
    Duration                       : 27s 120ms
    Overall bit rate mode          : Constant
    Overall bit rate               : 59.2 Mbps
    Writing application            : Lavf56.40.100
    
    Video
    ID                             : 0
    Format                         : DV
    Codec ID                       : dvsd
    Codec ID/Hint                  : Sony
    Duration                       : 27s 120ms
    Bit rate mode                  : Constant
    Bit rate                       : 24.4 Mbps
    Encoded bit rate               : 28.8 Mbps
    Width                          : 720 pixels
    Height                         : 576 pixels
    Display aspect ratio           : 4:3
    Original display aspect ratio  : 4:3
    Frame rate mode                : Constant
    Frame rate                     : 25.000 fps
    Standard                       : PAL
    Color space                    : YUV
    Bit depth                      : 8 bits
    Scan type                      : Interlaced
    Scan order                     : Bottom Field First
    Compression mode               : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 2.357
    Stream size                    : 186 MiB (97%)
    
    Audio
    ID                             : 1
    Format                         : PCM
    Format settings, Endianness    : Little
    Format settings, Sign          : Signed
    Codec ID                       : 1
    Duration                       : 27s 120ms
    Bit rate mode                  : Constant
    Bit rate                       : 1 536 Kbps
    Channel(s)                     : 2 channels
    Sampling rate                  : 48.0 KHz
    Bit depth                      : 16 bits
    Stream size                    : 4.97 MiB (3%)
    Alignment                      : Aligned on interleaves
    Interleave, duration           : 20 ms (0.50 video frame)
    So... I guess my ask is very specific: Does anyone have an advice to create spec-legal DVCPRO50 from VirtualDub2, so it would be correctly recognized by Vegas?
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  2. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Here's a quick test.

    The source was vanilla DV although I did a similar test with your uncompressed sample from another topic. The only thing I see is that mediainfo does not report on the Chroma Subsampling which should be 4:2:2 for DVCPro50.


    I do not have access to Vegas so am unable to check with that.
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  3. @DB83, thanks! This is not my source, but it does not matter. Does the dude look at a nuclear blast? Still not the effect I hoped for. Is something wrong with Vegas? Had it got worse from v13 to v14? I don't want to upgrade anyway, I think v17 requires Windows 10, also it was blamed in being less reliable lately.

    Thanks for the attempt!
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  4. Member DB83's Avatar
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    The report from Vegas, as you previously pointed, totally contradicts what mediainfo reports. Go check it.

    BTW The 'nuclear guy' is film critic Mark Kermode who presented a tv docu about Ken Russell's 'The Devils'. Maybe not a filum to your taste.


    But out of interest what does Vegas report when you feed plain vanilla DV25/30 to it ?


    Here is the original extract (Note the 'intrusion' of DVCPRO in to the mediainfo report)
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  5. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    The report from Vegas, as you previously pointed, totally contradicts what mediainfo reports. Go check it.
    I know that it contradicts it, I wanted Vegas to figure it out.

    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    BTW The 'nuclear guy' is film critic Mark Kermode who presented a tv docu about Ken Russell's 'The Devils'. Maybe not a filum to your taste.
    Mark James Patrick Kermode (/ˈkɜːrˌmoʊd/) is an English film critic and musician. Ok then. He did not age well. Filum? a threadlike structure; filament. A thread to my taste?

    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    But out of interest what does Vegas report when you feed plain vanilla DV25/30 to it ? Here is the original extract (Note the 'intrusion' of DVCPRO in to the mediainfo report)
    Same thing.

    I loaded a DV-AVI file captured through FireWire, and it reports correct metadata. Oh, well.
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  6. Member DB83's Avatar
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    So I did a quick 'Google' and found this:

    https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/post-production-tools/nle-software/vegas/107737-sony-veg...50#post1791343


    The comment "Vegas does not support DVCPRO50" might ice the cake. Of course this is an old topic but then so is this broadcast format. Which does beg the Q. why your friend wants to go down this path.
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  7. Vegas has no problem with DVCPRO. it supports DVCPRO 25, 50, 100 since at least version 12. The age of the format does not say much about its worthiness and applicability. That Kermode dude is old and looks like he did not regulate beer intake in the last twenty years - that is what my friend says - but does this make him a worse film critic and musician? DVCPRO50 has enough bitrate and has 4:2:2 color subsampling to be a good choice for storing SD content as well as for editing. I only need it for VHS and Hi8, everything else I store is in original digital files. It is well supported, and it will be supported in the future by Apple unlike some better intermediate formats like Cineform, which I am partial to, and DNxHD. Long live DV and its family.

    My friend is also curious, don't you use a Canopus DV box?
    Last edited by ConsumerDV; 22nd Apr 2022 at 19:26.
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  8. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I do, and have gone on record many times, possibly even in your topics, that I use an ADVC300

    The roriginal 2003 VHS off-tv of the docu was transfered with this. I made the extract some years later for another topic which was not proceeded with. If memory serves the extract was made with avidemux.


    But why the curiousity ?
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