VideoHelp Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 24 of 24
Thread
  1. Hi,

    I have a Satellite DVR that allows me to record and watch HD channels. It only supports upto 1080i. It has Composite, Componenent and HDMI for Video. For audio, it has RCA, Optical and SPDIF connections. I am in PAL land.

    My intention is to capture the HD programs and keep them on computer/external hard drive for later viewing through my WDTV Media Player or computer. I know HDCP protection will come into picture, so please reply assuming that the protection is taken care of.

    I need recommendation for capture cards that can capture interlaced 1080 and 5.1 audio at good bitrates and that does hardware encoding (since my computer is a bit older). Can you please suggest?

    I looked at Avermedia Live Gamer portable but understood that those devices that are made for game capturing do not usually support interlaced capturing well.

    Also, I have 3 other questions related to this topic: Would 720p be drastically inferior to 1080i? Would be the picture quality be very inferior if captured through component vs HDMI? Will capturing through component run into HDCP kind of issues?

    Thanks in advance.
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Memphis TN, US
    Search PM
    Your computer is not adequate. Most of the capture devices mentioned require about 3GHz CPU.
    A USB powered drive is too slow for HD capture. OK for storage and playback.

    The capture devices mentioned record from a DVR to a computer, or from a satellite box to a computer. Component video is used to defeat HDCP with HD material. The capture devices usually encode to AVCHD/h264. The Hauppauge HD PVR line is a popular brand.

    Originally Posted by nharikrishna View Post
    Would 720p be drastically inferior to 1080i?
    Drastically? Usually, no.

    Originally Posted by nharikrishna View Post
    Would be the picture quality be very inferior if captured through component vs HDMI?
    Many find it difficult to see a difference. However, there are HDCP removal methods that do degrade quality and have inconsistent performance.

    Originally Posted by nharikrishna View Post
    Will capturing through component run into HDCP kind of issues?
    The idea behind using non-HDMI throughput is to avoid HDCP.
    - My sister Ann's brother
    Quote Quote  
  3. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by nharikrishna View Post
    Hi,

    I have a Satellite DVR that allows me to record and watch HD channels. It only supports upto 1080i. It has Composite, Componenent and HDMI for Video. For audio, it has RCA, Optical and SPDIF connections. I am in PAL land.

    My intention is to capture the HD programs and keep them on computer/external hard drive for later viewing through my WDTV Media Player or computer. I know HDCP protection will come into picture, so please reply assuming that the protection is taken care of.

    I need recommendation for capture cards that can capture interlaced 1080 and 5.1 audio at good bitrates and that does hardware encoding (since my computer is a bit older). Can you please suggest?

    I looked at Avermedia Live Gamer portable but understood that those devices that are made for game capturing do not usually support interlaced capturing well.

    Also, I have 3 other questions related to this topic: Would 720p be drastically inferior to 1080i? Would be the picture quality be very inferior if captured through component vs HDMI? Will capturing through component run into HDCP kind of issues?

    Thanks in advance.
    As far as I know there are no HDMI capture devices that can encode 5.1 audio, but Hauppauge's HD-PVR 2 1512 and Colossus 1414 capture 5.1 Channel AC3 audio if they receive it as input. All others are limited to 2-channel audio.

    Although Hauppauge's HD-PVR 2 1512 and Colossus 1414 can capture 5.1 AC3 audio if they receive it via HDMI or optical audio, LPCM audio is encoded as 2-channel AAC. They don't capture other types of digital audio received via HDMI or optical audio. They do capture analog stereo audio as 2-channel AAC. Using a satellite receiver you may have frequent transmission losses, and might find it necessary to capture AAC audio, if you plan to edit recordings. Lost audio frames can make audio and video out of sync in the edited video. VideoReDo and TSDoctor can help to some extent, but there is a limit to what they can do.

    I have a Hauppauge Colossus. I have used it to capture 1080i, 720p, and 480i signals via HDMI. It does indeed capture 5.1 channel AC3 audio received via HDMI or optical S/PDIF. The included ArcSoft Showbiz software will work fine for recording pre-recorded shows from a DVR. I have also used the Colossus Windows Media Center, and NextPVR as well as with the included WinTV 7 software. The Colossus has no HDMI pass thorugh, so I use a ViewHD 2-port HDMI splitter to connect my cable box to both the Colossus and my TV. It works quite well for recording and watching TV at the same time. ...and if the PC is shut down, I can still watch TV.

    If you must have a portable device, Avermedia's Game Capture HD II is likely to work better than the others. It supports 480i capture and the latest firmware includes a timer. However there is no 5.1 channel audio capture available with this device.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 6th Oct 2014 at 09:59.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Your computer and external USB drive will certainly be adequate if you don't display the video while capturing. If your onboard graphics device supports hardware h.264 decoding display won't be a problem either. You can find sample videos from the Hauppauge HD PVR devices online for testing playback. The WDTV will have no problems with 1080i or 720p Hauppauge caps. Analog component is usually a little less sharp than HDMI. It will depend on how good your sat box's component output is to some extent.
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    If you don't mind not having 1080p. I would say get the Colossus for the extra bitrate. The HD-PVR 2 only allows 14mbps while the Colossus allows like 24mbps or something like that. I have the HD-PVR 2 and it works great, but would have liked to have the extra bitrate from the Colossus. If you think that 14mbps would be enough then the PVR 2 would do well, but don't get a optical S/PDIF cable for 5.1 captures. Pretty much every record was out of sync for me using one of them after re-encoding the source and removing the optical cable with HDMI fixed it, go with the HDMI cable if you really want 5.1, but you will be forced to spend more money to get a HDMI splitter.

    You will also be forced to buy TS-Doctor or VideoRedo to cut commercials and clean the stream as no other programs will do what you really need like these two programs. Everyone will tell you to go with VideoRedo, but after capping a lot of shows/movies from TV the last few weeks. I say go with TS-Doctor. It's cheaper and works a lot better then VideoRedo. I tried opening a few TV caps with VideoReDo and it wouldn't even open the file. I tried open the same file with TS-Doctor and it opened it with no problems at all. I can't stress it enough that TS-Doctor has worked WAY better the last few weeks over VideoReDo. I say go with TS-Doctor and with the money you save, buy a HDMI splitter.

    I just bought the hd pvr 2 1512 a few weeks ago and if i could go back in time. I would have bought the Colossus. I also say look on Ebay. I got my PVR 2 for 85$ shipped on ebay in the original box with everything needed to use it. It even had the disc to register WinTV. The cheapest place to buy it new was like 149$ on amazon.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Thank you all for the replies. HD-PVR 2 1512 and Colossus 1414 are hardware encoders? And is the maximum bitrate offered by them sufficient for good looking 1080i or 720p captures?
    Last edited by nharikrishna; 6th Oct 2014 at 23:59.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by nharikrishna View Post
    Thank you all for the replies. HD-PVR 2 1512 and Colossus 1414 are hardware encoders? And is the maximum bitrate offered by them sufficient for good looking 1080i or 720p captures?
    The HD-PVR 2 1512 and Colossus 1414 are both hardware encoders. The HD-PVR 2 1512 has a max. bitrate of 13.5 Mbs. The Colossus 1414 offers a higher max. bitrate, up to 20 Mbps. Some people might prefer it for that reason. However, the Colossus is a full-height PCI-e card, which means that some people (for example those with laptops or low-profile desktop cases) can't use it. The HD-PVR 2 1512 has a USB 2.0 interface, which means can be used with more computers.

    I find the Colossus' bitrate to be sufficient at less than its maximum setting, but some members here want to go even higher. The Elgato Game Capture HD, another HD USB 2.0 capture device, has a maximum bit rate of 30 Mbps. I didn't mention it because it only records 2 channel AAC audio and didn't meet your requirements in that area. Note that unlike the two Hauppauge devices, it only works with the manufacturer's software, so if you don't like it, there are no alternatives.
    Quote Quote  
  8. Thank you again for the reply. I will try and decide between 1512 and 1414.
    Quote Quote  
  9. @usually_quiet, what this really means? I only plan to remove commercials.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Using a satellite receiver you may have frequent transmission losses, and might find it necessary to capture AAC audio, if you plan to edit recordings.
    Quote Quote  
  10. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by nharikrishna View Post
    @usually_quiet, what this really means? I only plan to remove commercials.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Using a satellite receiver you may have frequent transmission losses, and might find it necessary to capture AAC audio, if you plan to edit recordings.
    When digital TV signals are transmitted there is always the possibility that some data will be lost. I'm sure that you have seen some problems with your signal in bad weather.

    Minor audio losses may go unnoticed while you are watching TV, and the unedited file may play correctly. ...but after editing the audio and video will gradually go out of sync because of the missing data. VideoReDo and TSDoctor can remove some video frames to compensate for missing audio data, to keep the video and audio synchronized, but there is a limit to what they can do.
    Quote Quote  
  11. Ok got it. Thanks for taking time to explain.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Hey, kkiller23,

    I'm glad to hear I am not the only one with issues using the HDMI input on a Colossus card and Video ReDo.

    Basically, when I play video recorded from cable tv by a Ceton card to my Colossus card through the HDMI input, many times my go to editing program Video ReDo wouldn't even open the files, and it would crash if I tried to use the quickfix tool on them. The same files would open with TSdoctor, and sometimes give warnings in the editing summary but no errors. Out of curiosity, I ran the tsdoctor edited files through VideoRedo (just a remux, no re-encoding), and they would open this time, but they would have between 100 and 200 audio frames dropped for resync purposes. Do you think tsdoctor is not properly deleting audio frames to maintain sync, or perhaps is this just an artifactual issue with Video ReDo and Hauppauge recorded TS files?

    Has anyone been able to get Colossus recorded programs via HDMI input to open with Video ReDo (VRD) and not have any errors?

    (I play back ceton recorded cable tv programs to the Colossus to strip them of the copy flag placed on almost all channels by TWC. I store my recorded programs on a NAS and we like to be able to watch them from different places in the house, not possible with the copy flag placed on the recordings unless you watch on the same computer that recorded them or use extenders. I use a View HD splitter to circumvent the HDCP issue. Also of note, the same programs recorded via HDMI by my Colossus which won't open with VRD will open with VRD and have zero errors or dropped audio frames if I record these programs with the Colossus using component plus optical audio cable input of the Colossus instead of the HDMI input).

    Thanks for any input- Nick
    Quote Quote  
  13. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Nickster View Post
    Hey, kkiller23,

    I'm glad to hear I am not the only one with issues using the HDMI input on a Colossus card and Video ReDo.

    Basically, when I play video recorded from cable tv by a Ceton card to my Colossus card through the HDMI input, many times my go to editing program Video ReDo wouldn't even open the files, and it would crash if I tried to use the quickfix tool on them. The same files would open with TSdoctor, and sometimes give warnings in the editing summary but no errors. Out of curiosity, I ran the tsdoctor edited files through VideoRedo (just a remux, no re-encoding), and they would open this time, but they would have between 100 and 200 audio frames dropped for resync purposes. Do you think tsdoctor is not properly deleting audio frames to maintain sync, or perhaps is this just an artifactual issue with Video ReDo and Hauppauge recorded TS files?

    Has anyone been able to get Colossus recorded programs via HDMI input to open with Video ReDo (VRD) and not have any errors?

    (I play back ceton recorded cable tv programs to the Colossus to strip them of the copy flag placed on almost all channels by TWC. I store my recorded programs on a NAS and we like to be able to watch them from different places in the house, not possible with the copy flag placed on the recordings unless you watch on the same computer that recorded them or use extenders. I use a View HD splitter to circumvent the HDCP issue. Also of note, the same programs recorded via HDMI by my Colossus which won't open with VRD will open with VRD and have zero errors or dropped audio frames if I record these programs with the Colossus using component plus optical audio cable input of the Colossus instead of the HDMI input).

    Thanks for any input- Nick
    I opened a 1080i TS file I captured with the Colossus yesterday via NextPVR. I made my cuts at IDR frames. This was the only error reported when I saved the file: Max PTS underflow (ms): 1388.91

    I haven't used VideoReDo with very many of my Colossus captures yet, but now that I have my setup configured the way I want it, I have no trouble opening the Colossus TS files with VideoReDo. There are errors when saving the file, but they tend to be PTS underflow errors. I suppose that could change as I edit more of the files.

    I am using a ViewHD splitter too, so the cable box can feed both the TV and the Colossus. I found HDMI for both video and audio (AC3 pass through or LPCM from the cable box) worked best for me. I had problems with dropped frames when I was using optical audio in combination with HDMI.
    Quote Quote  
  14. Thanks for the response usually quiet!

    I was having trouble getting AC3 5.1 channel sound over HDMI with the Colossus, but I'll give that a try again (in my case I'm passing pre-recorded programs from my HTPC made with a Ceton card to the Colossus). I was wondering if the ViewHD splitter was corrupting things, but I'm glad to hear it is working without errors for you.

    I was contemplating buying a HDFury4 to use as a functional splitter- in other words have the HDMI out from my HTPC going to the HDFury 4, and then have the HDFury4 output to both the TV/monitor (via HDMI) and the Colossus (via component and optical audio). Apparently the HDFury4 outputs both digital and analog simultaneously. But at about $400, it is a big expense for something that may or may not work in the way I have envisioned it. The folks at HDfury claim there is no significant difference in video quality output via the HDMI out vs the component out, but I guess that is a hard thing to quantify objectively.
    Quote Quote  
  15. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    The TS file above is 1080i, and I recorded the AC3 audio pass-through from my cable box.

    If it makes any difference, I installed the following driver package for the Colossus: Colossus_Driver_1_8_31093_0.exe and used VideoReDo TV Suite H.264 Version 4.21.6.674.

    [Edit]Here's the MediaInfo Report:
    General
    ID : 0 (0x0)
    Complete name : I:\Doctor Who Explained_20141008_10001100.ts
    Format : MPEG-TS
    File size : 4.41 GiB
    Duration : 1h 3mn
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 9 886 Kbps
    Maximum Overall bit rate : 27.0 Mbps

    Video
    ID : 4113 (0x1011)
    Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
    Format : AVC
    Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile : High@L4.0
    Format settings, CABAC : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
    Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=15
    Codec ID : 27
    Duration : 1h 3mn
    Bit rate : 9 010 Kbps
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 fps
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : MBAFF
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.145
    Stream size : 4.02 GiB (91%)

    Audio
    ID : 4352 (0x1100)
    Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
    Format : AC-3
    Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
    Mode extension : CM (complete main)
    Format settings, Endianness : Big
    Codec ID : 129
    Duration : 1h 3mn
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 384 Kbps
    Channel(s) : 6 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
    Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
    Bit depth : 16 bits
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Delay relative to video : -450ms
    Stream size : 175 MiB (4%)
    ... and the BitrateViewer graph:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	BitrateViewer 1.jpg
Views:	1540
Size:	59.2 KB
ID:	27948
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 9th Oct 2014 at 15:11.
    Quote Quote  
  16. Thanks again usually quiet.

    I'm capturing a previously recorded HD TV program right now using HDMI for both video and sound input to the Colossus - the ShowBiz capture program is indicating it is receiving 5.1 sound, so it looks promising. I'll try and edit the cap with VideoReDo and post back if there are any errors or dropped audio frames.

    In order to get the Intel HD audio from the HTPC (the source) to output audio in 5.1 to the Colossus, I had to put a Gefen device in between the Colossus and the ViewHD splitter which "fooled" the Intel HD audio into thinking it was outputting to an Onkyo receiver (the Gefen device copied the EDID from my Onkyo receiver which is capable of handling 5.1 audio input). Otherwise, the Intel HD audio senses the Colossus as only stereo capable and outputs only 2 channel audio.

    EDIT: Using HDMI for both video and audio input into the Colossus, I captured a tv program and edited out the pre and post padding with Video ReDo but did not re-encode. Once again, there were errors (176 dropped video resync frames in a 1.5 hour video). I'm using the same Colossus driver version as you are, and I've tried several VideoReDo versions, all with the same result. One could postulate that the source recording has errors in it. But if I capture the same source program using component and optical cable into the Colossus (employing an Xbox extender), there are zero errors when editing with Video ReDo.
    Last edited by Nickster; 9th Oct 2014 at 22:02. Reason: Results
    Quote Quote  
  17. Well....I am the OP.

    I have finally decided to go with AverMedia Game Capture HD II (C285). Reason being, Hauppauge products are not available in my part of the world, even if I get them in grey market, there is no warranty support from Hauppauge. AverMedia gives 2 years warranty on its products. Also, my computer (which I do not plan to upgrade imemdiately) cannot handle the Colossus card.

    The Aver C285 seems to be having good reviews, and also it satisfies my primary requirement of being able to capture interlaced. My Satellite box outputs only upto 1080i. All other AverMedia cards do not advertise the ability to capture interlaced (Live Gamer Portable....etc). C285 also satisfies my other requirement: USB 2.0. So, I am more inclined towards buying it.

    The C285 captures at a maximum bitrate of 20 Mbps. I hope that will provide good picture quality for HD channels. However, I am not sure if it can capture audio in 5.1 via HDMI. I might compromise on that if it doesn't. I intend to use it only for HD Captures (and SD captures), not for gaming.

    The C285 is a totally PC-Free device, there is no way to control it via PC, however, they give a remote control, as well as an Android application can also control it.

    Please let me know if it is NOT advised to by C285, I might place the order in a day or two.

    Regards
    Quote Quote  
  18. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by nharikrishna View Post
    However, I am not sure if it can capture audio in 5.1 via HDMI. I might compromise on that if it doesn't.
    The AVerMedia C285 can only capture 2 channel AAC audio, regardless of the audio source.
    Quote Quote  
  19. Ok thanks. I might compromise on that. Any other limitations?
    Quote Quote  
  20. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Reviewers reported these negatives:
    1. It isn't possible to transfer files to a PC via LAN, so if an internal hard is installed, the drive needs to be removed and connected to a PC, or the files need to be copied to a USB drive.

    2. Some are reporting that if an external hard drive is removed for file transfer and re-connected to the C285, an error message pops up saying the drive needs repairing, even if the correct ejection procedure was followed.

    3. The C285 slow to boot up and the video on the TV flickers on and off during this process.

    4. The latest firmware available for download from Avermedia includes a timer function, but there is only a single timer event. The timer can be set for a one event recording up to 14 hours long, or to record daily at the same time.
    Quote Quote  
  21. Thanks usually_quiet for taking time to compile these negatives. I am fine with all of them except then 2nd one on extenral hard drive issue. Let me re-think.
    Quote Quote  
  22. Well, I have ordered the AverMedia Game Capture HD II (C285) and received it over the weekend.

    Here are my first impressions: (this might help other prospective buyers of the C285)

    I was pleasantly surprised to see that none of the HD channels were HDCP protected, and the C285 can happily capture them. I did not use any HDCP stripper. I guess it is down to my set top box, not encrypting them.

    The audio was captured off HDMI as well, it is in AC3 format at standard 124 Kbps, sterio-only. There is no way to change the audio bitrate. Neither can we capture 5.1 via HDMI.

    There are only 3 options to chose from, as far as video quality is concerned. 15 Mbps is maximum. Given, satellite HD services also transmit their signals at this bit rate (from what I read from other forums), I am fine with this bitrate limit.
    I am not going to use it to capture games anyway.

    It captured 1080 interlaced as I instructed it to do.

    My PC struggled to play the file, since it is not capable of playing high bitrate HD content due to its poor specifications. I will try to play the file through my WDTV Live and see how it looks on TV.

    Upgrading the firmware was a bit tricky, but I was succesful finally. We need to download the latest firmware from AverMedia site and put it on a flash drive. The key is to have nothing on the flash drive other than the firmware. Also, the flash drive needs to be formatted to NTFS before placing the firmware on it.

    The device did warn me that the hard drive needs to be repaired, even though I followed the correct ejection mechanism before. However, the message goes away if we press OK on the remote control.

    I have used only a flash drive (thumb drive) and a Western Digital 1 TB hard drive (without power). The unpowered hard drive seems to get the power from the USB port of the C285 fine.

    The C285 did give me a message that the hard drive should have 'sufficient' write speeds to produce a proper HD recording. I am not sure what the 'sufficient' means. I guess my Western Digital Passport 1 TB drive is 5400 rpm???

    I did not try the scheduler function, since I do not need it. I mainly capture from my Satellite DVR, and those videos are already there on the HDD of the DVR.

    Regards
    Quote Quote  
  23. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by nharikrishna View Post
    The audio was captured off HDMI as well, it is in AC3 format at standard 124 Kbps, sterio-only.
    The reviews and specifications for the AverMedia Game Capture HD II (C285) I have seen said its capture files are MP4 files with H.264 video and AAC stereo audio. You say it recorded AC3 audio. Do you mean it recorded AC3 audio input as AC3 or do you mean it recorded AC3 audio input but converted it to AAC?
    Quote Quote  
  24. The video was certainly MP4 (H264).

    I did a quick MediaInfo on the recorded file and found the audio was AC3.

    I guess that was because I chose the option in the satellite box to output sound as 'Dolby Digital'. The other option was 'PCM' if I remember correctly. I don't remember seeing 'AAC' in the satellite box. My assumption is that the C285 will capture sound in the same format it receives from the source.

    I can double check this when I am home tonight.

    Regards
    Quote Quote  
Visit our sponsor! Try DVDFab and backup Blu-rays!