BD-R & BD-R DL Intermittent Freezing on Playback

[333thefreddy]

Every BD-R & BD-R DL I burn (at 4X on a Windows 11 or Server PC via LG MODISC BD Rewriters) plays flawlessly the 1st TIME ONLY.

I think there are 2 important keys to this puzzle:
1. the discs ALWAYS play fine the 1st time. It's only beginning on the 2nd play that the disc freezing occurs.
2. None of the players have ever frozen when playing back commercial movies. It's only discs I burn myself that freeze.

Most (but not all!) of the freezes occur around the 1'20" time. But they've occurred at 10 minutes or 42 minutes or 2.5 hours. And they seem to be mostly random.

Playback is generally via of 2 OPPO players (92 & 203). However, when the 2nd OPPO did the same thing, I figured it must be an OPPO design issue, so I bought a cheap Samsung BD-J5100, which worked for awhile but has begun freezing, too. I was just given a used Sony UBP-X700, but same problem -- the freezes occur on all 4 players! I've tried the discs on friend's Blu-Ray player (I can't recall the brand or model....maybe Sony?) with the same results. So I have to think it's not the players.

Most of the discs are Verbatims, but I don't know if they're LTH, HTL or M-Disk since I don't see any of those notations anywhere on the outer Verbatim packaging or on the discs themselves. The packages do say "Hard Coat", but I'm not sure what that means.

This issue has been plaguing me for YEARS and I've spent weeks searching forums like this one for an answer, but everything I've tried results in dead-ends. I'm guessing the problem lies in either the LG BD writers or the Verbatim discs themselves, but both have been highly recommended for BD-R use.

When I run DVDInfoPro's CRC Error Read Test, it often gets stuck somewhere in the middle of the disc and outputs a long list of LBA errors. I uploaded a 175k .jpg screenshot, but it's not displaying when I Preview this post, so I don't know if it'll appear here?

Here's a sample of the type of freeze I'm getting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kICqshIstRE

[CDK]

It's only discs I burn myself that freeze.

What is the source of such discs? Just ripped and burned without modification? Authored using... (what?)?

[333thefreddy]

It's only discs I burn myself that freeze.

What is the source of such discs? Just ripped and burned without modification? Authored using... (what?)?

The source is either a 1080 HD camera or videos downloaded from the Internet (.mp4, .iso, .avi from facebook, youtube, rumble, etc.) and they're burned as-is, no modification.
Most authoring was via TMPGEnc Authoring Works 4, CloneBD or, in a few cases, a Sony program whose name I can't recall.

[CDK]

Well... imho the reason may be:
- video encoding parameters (the odd thing - you are talking the same issue comes from different sources) - try using 1080p with 24 fps, re-encode it with x264 (--bluray-compat --level 4.1 --open-gop --slices 4 --colorprim "bt709" --transfer "bt709" --colormatrix "bt709" --profile high --level 4.1 --no-fast-pskip --weightp 0 --vbv-maxrate 30000 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --bitrate 20000 --preset medium --b-pyramid none --keyint 24 --fps 24) and mux with tsMuxer (Blu-ray folder)
- audio: encode with eac3to source target.ac3 -640
- a burner drive - try another brand with the same source that already was burned and gave you an issue
- a BD disc - try another brand as well (again with the same source)
- a burning speed - limit it to 4x

[333thefreddy]

Well... imho the reason may be:
- video encoding parameters (the odd thing - you are talking the same issue comes from different sources) - try using 1080p with 24 fps, re-encode it with x264 (--bluray-compat --level 4.1 --open-gop --slices 4 --colorprim "bt709" --transfer "bt709" --colormatrix "bt709" --profile high --level 4.1 --no-fast-pskip --weightp 0 --vbv-maxrate 30000
--vbv-bufsize 30000 --bitrate 20000 --preset medium --b-pyramid none --keyint 24 --fps 24) and mux with tsMuxer (Blu-ray folder)
- audio: encode with eac3to source target.ac3 -640

Thank for the detailed response and explanation. However, I don't see any of these options in the Settings of any of the burning programs I've used. And alot of people are using the programs I am using and, based on their company forums, only a few others have reported these BD freezing problems during playback on stand-alone players like OPPOs.

Re "1080p with 24 fps": I think that's the default for all of the burning programs I've used. None of the programs support 4K or anything higher than standard Blu-Ray's 1080p and I think only the TMPGEnc allows you to change the fps setting (it's at 24).

- a burner drive - try another brand with the same source that already was burned and gave you an issue

I do have a Pioneer BDXL burner in another computer, but that computer is relatively slow (the PCs with the LG burners are newer, have faster CPUs and much more RAM). I'll try reburning one of these discs there.

- a BD disc - try another brand as well (again with the same source)

A small number the problem discs are Panasonics and a couple of other brands (whatever was on sale at the time). I'm sorry, I would have included this info in my original post, but I thought providing too many details would be confusing.

- a burning speed - limit it to 4x

I (nearly) always burn at 4X.
However, when the freezing began several years ago, a number of people in forums suggested either raising (to half the max speed of the disc (e.g., 8X for a 16X disc)) or lowering (to 2X) the burn speed, but that doesn't seem to have helped.

Any idea what's causing all of those LBA errors that DVDInfoPro is reporting (and stopping on) near the middle of the disc in my first post? It seems that that is the most likely source of the problem. No?
Thank you!

[4kblurayguru]

Thank for the detailed response and explanation. However, I don't see any of these options in the Settings of any of the burning programs I've used. And alot of people are using the programs I am using and, based on their company forums, only a few others have reported these BD freezing problems during playback on stand-alone players like OPPOs.

Re "1080p with 24 fps": I think that's the default for all of the burning programs I've used. None of the programs support 4K or anything higher than standard Blu-Ray's 1080p and I think only the TMPGEnc allows you to change the fps setting (it's at 24).

those are encoding parameters, you have to use x.264 command line. BD spec is very strict so high end players will glitch on badly encoded/authored discs. Post your workflow and settings.

[333thefreddy]

those are encoding parameters, you have to use x.264 command line. BD spec is very strict so high end players will glitch on badly encoded/authored discs. Post your workflow and settings.

The programs I've been using have large user bases & gui-based, but do not offer command-line operation.

The workflow is to select the disc, select the video track or tracks I want on the disc, select the disc size -- BD-R or BD-R DL, burning speed (I generally use 4X) and click the Create or Start button. After creating the BD file structure, the programs burn them to the disc & finalize the disc. That is about all to the workflow.

As for settings, here is a screenshot of the available video settings from CloneBD, which was used to create the disc that was being tested in the DVDInfoPro screenshot I provided in my 1st post

[moon_light]

Save as ISO, copy it to another computer, and try another burner. It seems to be caused by the burner or the windows system.

[333thefreddy]

Save as ISO, copy it to another computer, and try another burner.

Actually, someone else recommended this a few years ago, but it didn't help.

It seems to be caused by the burner or the windows system.

Later this week when I have more time, I do plan to try reburning one of the discs on the PC that has the Pioneer burner. Because that PC is relatively slow, I haven't used it much for making blu-rays, but I think a few of the discs may have been made on it, so I'm not hopeful of much of a different result.

I have 2 different PCs, one running Windows 11 & the other Windows Server, & discs made on both freeze, so I doubt it's a general Windows issue. Also, because the Windows 11 PC has 2 LG burners &, now that I'm looking at them, they're actually different LG models & I've had the same result from both. again, I doubt the problem is due to a bad burner.

[333thefreddy]

I performed a CRC Read Error test on another disc late last night & it also stalled with a load of LBA errors, but it stalled about 20% into the disc.

I just tested that same disc again, but via the Pioneer burner with similar results, but the LBA errors began at a much later point in the test. This illustrates the seemingly random nature of the freezes. As I mentioned, most of the time, the freezes occur around 1 hour & 20 minutes-ish into play. But I've had the same disc that froze at 1'20" later freeze at 30 minutes or 1'53".

Because most (not all!) of the freezes happen around 1'20", I thought it might be a layer thing. But, as you can see from the new (attached) Pioneer test, perhaps, it looks like, both burners produce these LBA errors, the Pioneer burner may take longer to stall than the LG burners. Very confusing???

p.s. I have sent the OPPO 93 back to OPPO 3 times to have them check/fix the freezes, but they said they were unable to get the player to freeze. So, when the unit went back the 3rd time, I included 3 sample BD-Rs for them to test with, including the disc that's freezing in the youtube video. Again, they were unable to get the unit to freeze. So they sent it back, but it froze, as usual, right out of the box. I assumed my 93 must be a lemon & when they released the 203, I bought 1 thinking it impossible for 2 OPPOs to have this SAME weird freezing problem. Based on some of the comments on that youtube video, I'm not the only one experiencing this.

But when the 203 (and Samsung) froze, too, it was clear that the problem was probably disc- or burner- or burner-software-related. But nothing I've tried (I've tried just about every software and fix in my years of researching this) has made any difference.

[october262]

I performed a CRC Read Error test on another disc late last night & it also stalled with a load of LBA errors, but it stalled about 20% into the disc.

I just tested that same disc again, but via the Pioneer burner with similar results, but the LBA errors began at a much later point in the test. This illustrates the seemingly random nature of the freezes. As I mentioned, most of the time, the freezes occur around 1 hour & 20 minutes-ish into play. But I've had the same disc that froze at 1'20" later freeze at 30 minutes or 1'53".

Because most (not all!) of the freezes happen around 1'20", I thought it might be a layer thing. But, as you can see from the new (attached) Pioneer test, perhaps, it looks like, both burners produce these LBA errors, the Pioneer burner may take longer to stall than the LG burners. Very confusing???

p.s. I have sent the OPPO 93 back to OPPO 3 times to have them check/fix the freezes, but they said they were unable to get the player to freeze. So, when the unit went back the 3rd time, I included 3 sample BD-Rs for them to test with, including the disc that's freezing in the youtube video. Again, they were unable to get the unit to freeze. So they sent it back, but it froze, as usual, right out of the box. I assumed my 93 must be a lemon & when they released the 203, I bought 1 thinking it impossible for 2 OPPOs to have this weird problem. When the 203 froze, too, it was clear that the problem was probably disc- or burner- or burner-software-related. But nothing I've tried (I've tried just about every software and fix in my years of researching this) has made any difference.

do you still get the intermittent freeze problem if you copy the movie on to a USB stick and play on a media player ??

[moon_light]

I have a friend. He also got stuck after burning a Blu-ray. The disc he used was Verbatim. He tried Sony, Panasonic, and xbox players, and the playback would all get stuck.
But he copied the ISO to my computer and burned it. I used Pioneer burner, Sony and Panasonic discs, and there was no problem with playback.

[333thefreddy]

do you still get the intermittent freeze problem if you copy the movie on to a USB stick and play on a media player ??

No.

[333thefreddy]

Just wondering -- I store the discs (along with many music CDs) in CoreLogic sleeved 250-disc cases. The cases are stored horizontally, with 1 case stacked on top of another (i.e., 2-high). Could the fact that the discs are stored in plastic sleeves or within sleeved cases or with the weight of 1 case sitting on top of another case be causing some type of damage to the discs? If so, that might explain why they always play fine the 1st time, but begin stalling on the 2nd & all subsequent plays.

[october262]

do you still get the intermittent freeze problem if you copy the movie on to a USB stick and play on a media player ??

No.

and all of your burners have the latest firmware updates including your dvd players ??

[CDK]

I performed a CRC Read Error test on another disc late last night & it also stalled with a load of LBA errors, but it stalled about 20% into the disc.

It looks like a burner or scratched disc issue.

[333thefreddy]

and all of your burners have the latest firmware updates including your dvd players ??

Yes.

[333thefreddy]

It looks like a burner or scratched disc issue.

I'm neurotic about keeping optical discs pristine. No scratches, fingerprints or significant dust.