Good amateur capture(vhs) card for linux?

[prodarek]

Hello, I wanna buy capture card I have pioneer dvr 560h but i want better quality. Can anyone recommend something for linux?
I have Panasonic S-VHS NV-HS960.

Thank you for help.

[lordsmurf]

The bigger problem with Linux is there's no good capture software.

[prodarek]

OBS Studio its bad?

[energizerfellow]

OBS Studio its bad?

Basically every defining feature of SD video from field order, to PAL vs NTSC color, to 4:2:2 encoding, to [even more] is broken in some way in OBS Studio (and various OBS forks from Streamlabs, et al.). Very much the wrong tool for SD work due to numerous bugs and technical issues, sadly. Feel free to see their Github for more information.

For a generalized open-source tools in Linux (or macOS) with proper SD capture you're looking at the FFmpeg CLI and... um... Yeah, that's pretty much it. Windows ends up being the default suggestion due to not only device drivers, but also tools like VirtualDub2 + StaxRip.

That said, Blackmagic, AJA, Epiphan, Magewell, and Datapath have solid Linux driver support, but among them only Blackmagic and AJA offer Linux-based capture tools in the form of Blackmagic's Media Express and AJA's Control Room.

While Blackmagic Media Express and AJA Control Room are very good, pro-level capture tools, they are, unfortunately, bound to their respective vendor's hardware and closed source (though otherwise free software). Further sadness as Blackmagic's analog front-end ADC support is lulz bad company-wide (Intensity Pro 4K, I'm looking at you...) and AJA's analog SD support, while solid, uses relatively ancient Analog Devices front-ends that while good for stable pro formats like Betacam SP, struggle to keep consumer formats like VHS stable.

pioneer dvr 560h

Arguably one of the better TBCs, ADCs, and proc amps sold into the consumer market, plus will output the original interlaced 480i/576i over HDMI. You should be using this as your ADC and picking up the interlaced SD 4:2:2 HDMI feed with something like a UltraStudio Recorder 3G, which will let you use Media Express from Blackmagic.

I'd also stay away from HandBrake, depending on what you're trying to do, as it's designed strictly around 4:2:0 chroma subsampling and some of the defaults it uses arguably aren't the best.

Blackamgic's DaVinci Resolve is arguably the way to go in Linux for a NLE, but many of the codecs you'd expect to be supported. e.g. AVC/H.264 or HEVC/H.265, require the full paid version of DaVinci Resolve Studio on Linux due to various licensing issues. At least there's LottlessCut I guess.

[prodarek]

Wow tons of info.. nice but what about hdcp copy protection?

[energizerfellow]

Wow tons of info.. nice but what about hdcp copy protection?

In theory HDCP shouldn't be an issue as that didn't really start coming to the fore until Blu-ray and HD were a thing. That said, if the Pioneer is enforcing HDCP for some reason, basically all HDMI splitters and a lot of HDMI switches will magically strip HDCP, which you'll see talked about in places like Amazon product reviews. I'd also suggest sticking to newer hardware advertising things like 18 Gbps HDMI 2.0a, 4K60 @ 4:4:4, Dolby Vision, etc support as these modern HDMI chips are a lot more flexible than the older hardware. They're cheap now too.

[prodarek]

Interesting.. with pioneer 560 I can also use component this is good idea? I read many bad post about Black Magic and problems with dropping frames but maybe with panas 960 + pioneer 560 image is stable and this will be not the problem?

[oln]

I've used the SOny RDR-HX750 (which is mostly the same as the pioneer 550) + blackmagic over both component and hdmi and haven't noted frame drops on the capture card side. The pioneer/sony dvd-recorders can drop/insert some frames on their own if the video gets very bad though (way better than 99% of capture cards and in most cases not an issue, but not quite as robust as a panasonic dvdrs, though those have some brightness issues instead for PAL content).

The pioneer/sony dvd-recorders do enforce HDCP no matter the content, same with panasonics. The JVC one I have seemed to allow output non-copyrighted stuff over HDMI to the blackmagic from what I remember, but the avermedia card I have here right now it doesn't work without a splitter to strip copy prot. (Possibly due to the avermedia technically having HDCP support in the chip.)

[prodarek]

So you are happy to use blackmagic overall? what avermedia card you have now?

[oln]

Well the one I have used is the intensity shuttle USB3 which does not work on linux as far as I know. I think other blackmagic cards do though, but I haven't used anything blackmagic on linux so can't speak for how well those work for this use case. The only capture cards I've used on linux are usb2 dongles and old pci ones + ffmpeg for actual capture.

I have a avermedia U3 (c710) that I got for cheap used, it has some windows driver issues (official driver has messed up sound after some windows update, using a newer driver from another card fixes it but gives audio offset in some apps) so not a fan. Only neat thing is that you can "hack" the official capture app which lets you capture copy-protected HDMI and component, though I don't know any way of getting it to work in other programs, and the official app only captures to h264 progressive with aac audio so it's not all that useful for this purpose.

[ConsumerDV]

I have a avermedia U3 (c710) that I got for cheap used, it has some windows driver issues (official driver has messed up sound after some windows update, using a newer driver from another card fixes it but gives audio offset in some apps) so not a fan.

I have CE310B on Windows 7 and have a similar issue with A/V sync. Interesting that when capturing with Dazzle DVC100, VirtualDub2 shows slight A/V oscillation about 2-3 ms, but it never drifts far away and generally stays in sync. With the CE310B, VirtualDub2 shows 0 ms drift and absolutely stable 29.97 fps, yet A/V sync drifts as much as 1 s per 1 hour of capture. Ugh.

Only neat thing is that you can "hack" the official capture app which lets you capture copy-protected HDMI and component, though I don't know any way of getting it to work in other programs, and the official app only captures to h264 progressive with aac audio so it's not all that useful for this purpose.

Can you share the hack? I wonder whether it would work for my analog-only card. It has Macrovision detection and protection enabled, so I cannot capture Macrovision-protected tapes even using VirtualDub2 - it is in the driver or in hardware. I think, the driver.

[oln]

I don't get any drift, just "14 inserted frames" and a little audio offset if using virtualdub, though the offset is constant. With amarectv I don't get any drift, but something is causing it to not let me select 25 fps SD, only 50fps or higher resolutions idk why. (And it seems the card only allows 30 and 29.97 for NTSC for some reason which isn't ideal.) Granted since it's only component and HDMI pretty much every source is gonna be stable. I use a I-O data GV-USB2 which has s-video and composite if I need to use something else than the panasonic DVR ->hdmi route for capturing.

The "hack" is a modified file for the capture app, it's in a thread here in this subforum about avermedia cards. Doubt it will work on a different card, the c310B is completely different with a completely different chipset, but could be wrong.

[energizerfellow]

with pioneer 560 I can also use component this is good idea?

Why on earth would you do that? Every analog <=> digital conversion causes loss and you've already got a digital, audio-video synced connection with HDMI. Like I said, just get a HDMI splitter/switch where people talk about defeating/blocking/removing HDCP in the Amazon reviews.

You want to use the HDMI output and with said HDMI output set to 480i (NTSC) or 576i (PAL), not "p" progressive.

I read many bad post about Black Magic

Blackmagic as a company views analog video as an afterthought checkbox feature. Analog input support (and sometime interlaced, even in digital form, depending on the tool) is straight-up broken across the product lineup at Blackmagic. The Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4K PCIe card, for instance, is infamous for terrible, broken analog support (the digital side, i.e. HDMI, is just fine, however...).

That said, Blackmagic's Media Express is very good for things like VHS capture, provided you use an external ADC + TBC box (e.g. your Pioneer DVD writer's HDMI output) to feed into a Blackmagic digital capture device like the UltraStudio Recorder 3G.

and problems with dropping frames but maybe with panas 960 + pioneer 560 image is stable and this will be not the problem?

The Pioneer DVR560H-K is a TBC. DVD recorders need the time base correction in the analog->digital stage to make the analog input stable enough for video compression and writing out to disc. The Pioneer DVD recorders (and their rebadges) are special as they are one of the only (the only?) DVD recorders sold into the consumer market with both full proc amp controls and interlaced output support over HDMI.

The pioneer/sony dvd-recorders can drop/insert some frames on their own if the video gets very bad though (way better than 99% of capture cards and in most cases not an issue, but not quite as robust as a panasonic dvdrs, though those have some brightness issues instead for PAL content).

Sure, OK.

I have a avermedia U3 (c710) that I got for cheap used, it has some windows driver issues (official driver has messed up sound after some windows update, using a newer driver from another card fixes it but gives audio offset in some apps) so not a fan.

The Avermedia ExtremeCap U3 (CV710) is a decade old at this point, so you kind of expect the hardware vendor to drop support at some point. It was Windows 10 2004/20H1 that had some kernel audio changes and required Avermedia to update the drivers (and some firmware) across a bunch of their product lineup. You just happened to have a device old enough to not get updated.

With amarectv I don't get any drift, but something is causing it to not let me select 25 fps SD, only 50fps or higher resolutions idk why. (And it seems the card only allows 30 and 29.97 for NTSC for some reason which isn't ideal.)

AmaRecTV is ancient, inaccurate garbage by modern standards and should be left behind at this point. Why people keep using it, I have no idea...

Stick to VirtualDub2 (or Blakcmagic Media Express / AJA Control Room) for SD capture. If you're a masochist, there's the FFmpeg CLI. Then take your lossless/intermediate codec capture from those into a tool like StaxRip or real NLE like Davinci Resolve for further editing.

I use a I-O data GV-USB2 which has s-video and composite if I need to use something else than the panasonic DVR ->hdmi route for capturing.

The IO Data GV-USB2 is a solid little card, arguably one the best of the dongle type, but it has non-defeatable automatic gain control (AGC), which can be a problem at times. While the Renesas TW9910 analog front-end in the GV-USB2 has pretty solid line-level TBC functionality, there's no frame/field-level TBC correction, which is the domain of "big boy" boxes like DVD/blu-ray recorders, FPGA-based video processors (e.g. Magewell capture cards), etc.

[lollo]

AmaRecTV is ancient, inaccurate garbage by modern standards and should be left behind at this point. Why people keep using it, I have no idea...

AmarectTV is a wonderful piece of software and work flawless for capturing SD 4:2:2 with a lossless codec. It never has audio/video asynch problems, which happens with my Hauppauge USB-Live 2 and VirtualDub.

There are several members here using it. If you have any proof that is not good post some evidence (bad capture with it), otherwise is just a unfounded opinion.

Stick to VirtualDub2

VirtualDub2 has never been reccomended for capture, but eventually 1.9.11. I experimented non reported dropped frames using it, in addition to the asynch problem mentioned.

Then take your lossless/intermediate codec capture from those into a tool like StaxRip or real NLE like Davinci Resolve for further editing.

And maybe use also AviSynth for problems not fixable by a NLE. And for compression a simple ffmpeg command line is enough.

The IO Data GV-USB2 is a solid little card, arguably one the best of the dongle type, but it has non-defeatable automatic gain control (AGC), which can be a problem at times.

Again, have you any capture to show highlighting the problem? Never heard of AGC issues with IO Data GV-USB2, and I know many users of it. On this forum oln and Alwin use it for sure, so they can further comment, because I do not own the card and I may be wrong.

While the Renesas TW9910 analog front-end in the GV-USB2 has pretty solid line-level TBC functionality

Not really. IO Data GV-USB2 needs a lineTBC correction, either in the VCR or with a DVD-R recorder in passthrough mode. Here an example http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-workflows/12384-vhs-capture-workflow-2.html#post81689. Again, do you have any sample to show?

[Alwyn]

AmaRecTV is ancient, inaccurate garbage by modern standards and should be left behind at this point. Why people keep using it, I have no idea..

I will also disagree. With my Startech USB3HDCAP, VirtualDub ( 1911 and 2) carries on like a pork chop, jerky video and dropped frames like they are going out of fashion. AmarecTV is as smooth as silk with no frame drops reported (but that might be a furphy). Certainly, the video is smooth. With my GV-USB2, on the other hand, I can use VDub satisfactorily.

The IO Data GV-USB2 is a solid little card, arguably one the best of the dongle type, but it has non-defeatable automatic gain control (AGC), which can be a problem at times.

Haven't noticed any blowout issues on scene changes but probably don't know what I'd be looking for.

[lollo]

Haven't noticed any blowout issues on scene changes but probably don't know what I'd be looking for.

When happening, it is not only on scene change

Here some sample of AGC issue, many other here and on digitalfaq (ATI USB 650 was famous for it, some VC500 as well):
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/326560-Which-is-better-usb-stick-vhs-cap-or-hd-pvr...vd#post2023227
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/7775-ati-aiw-7500-a.html
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/328439-New-Video-and-Capture-Card-Confusion

One report for the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 as well, I never confirmed it:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/393640-USB-Live2-Brightness-Issue-%28Video-Example%29

edit

with no frame drops reported (but that might be a furphy)

No. For many of my captures I also have a dvs-s dump of the program, and when Amarec reports a dropped or inserted frame is for real. On the other hand, when I match entire programs to adjust the colors on all frames, I see exactly the same number of frames, confirming that if AmarecTV does not report, there are none

[Alwyn]

Thanks Lollo, I will now keep a lookout for the blowouts! And good to know about Amarec's dropped frames report being accurate.

[Pinto007]

AmaRecTV is ancient, inaccurate garbage by modern standards and should be left behind at this point. Why people keep using it, I have no idea...

Man, you should make stand-ups! You are so hilarious!
.
.
.
.
.
.
There is no better capture software than AmarecTV.

[ConsumerDV]

I don't get any drift, just "14 inserted frames" and a little audio offset if using virtualdub, though the offset is constant.

I get 12 or 14 inserted frames at the very beginning every time I start capture with the CE310B. In my case the offset is not constant, it increases. Just FYI.

The AverMedia capture utility is not able to use any of the better codecs I have installed. The best it can do is H.264/MP4 or MPEG-2 @ 12 Mbit/s.