JVC SR-DVM70US High Speed Dubbing

[sd1233]

I am using the JVC SR-DVM70US for work. I am trying to dub (burn) something from the HDD to DVD in High Speed mode. The media was recorded in SP Mode from satellite and is 01:24:26 in duration. However, when dubbing in High Speed Mode, the estimated time for completion is indicated to be completed was 86 minutes. I actually tried dubbing this media in High Speed Mode. However, it executes the dub in 86 miuntes. This should only take 10-15 minutes. Here's a detailed explaination of the steps taken to burn from HDD to DVD in High Speed Mode:
1. I confirmed that BOTH the HDD and DVD Record Modes were set to SP by pressing Record Mode on the remote, selecting SP and pressing ENTER.
2. I tried the dub again and got the same message.
3. I tried dubbing it in manual mode and got the same message.
4. I reset the DVD Recorder twice. Once by turning off the unit and pressing the POWER and STOP buttons simultaneously and once by unplugging the unit.
5. Each time I confirmed the Record Mode Settings on the HDD and DVD were at SP and tried again to dub the media in High Speed mode and manual mode. However, both times it still told me the media would take 86 minutes to dub.

Please tell me what I need to do for the dubbing to take 10-15 mintues.
I've had other DVD HDD Recorders and as long as you're dubbing in High Speed at the same Record Mode the media was recorded, I've had no problems.

Your help would be very much appreciated!

[orsetto]

These units have a number of operational bugs that crop up randomly with no apparent cause. This particular instance may be due to a common quirk among many DVD/HDD models: they incorrectly record signals when the source is a satellite feed. Somehow the data gets incorrectly flagged on the HDD, and the unit misinterprets the HDD recording as having some sort of half-baked copy protection embedded. This results in a refusal to dub to some types of media and/or defaulting to a real-time digital>analog>digital re-encode when attempts are made to burn a DVD. Which is exactly your problem: you're locked out of making a lossless direct digital high-speed dub.

I am not familiar with the precise details of how your model works, but when I've experienced this lockout issue with other similar models it sometimes helps to try using a DVD-RAM disc. The JVCs and Panasonics with RAM capability will often allow HS dub to DVD-RAM when DVD-/+ R/RW is locked out. If this works, you can use a PC to re-burn the DVD-RAM contents to a standard DVD-R or just load the DVD-RAM contents directly into your editing software for post work. Pro users are often surprised to discover these "pro" DVD recorders incorporate the same annoying flags and prohibitions as the consumer units, it pops up to bite you at the most inconvenient times. If all else fails, you may need to just let it do the 1:1 86 minute re-encode: a degraded DVD is better than no DVD.

A less-likely but still possible cause might be if you had performed any editing on the HDD recording before attempting to make the DVD dub. Some DVD/HDD machines, JVC and Funai especially, are overly sensitive to what they consider "illegal" edit points or modifications. Usually the machine will crash or otherwise disallow such an edit, but sometimes a borderline cut or chapter mark will be permitted on the HDD which then prevents HS dubbing later, forcing a real-time re-encode. If this proves to be your issue, I would again suggest the DVD-RAM trick as possible workaround (although the internal machine logic might lock out all media for HS dubbing in this case).

Yet another obscure issue with this type of machine can occur if the unit senses an aspect ratio shift (16:9>4:3 or vice versa) in the middle of the HDD recording. This will again lock out standard DVD media for HS dubbing and force a real-time re-encode, and again DVD-RAM is sometimes a workaround. You might try speed-searching thru the HDD recording and look for a suspicious scene change that appears to shift image framing: if you can find one, and edit it out, that might solve your problem. It is a popular artistic choice to alter apparent aspect ratio for emphasis, this can be subtle for our eyes to catch but the machines will sniff it out and wrongly assume a true aspect shift. Each model handles these aspect shifts differently in terms of HS dubbing: some will force a 1:1 re-encode and lock out HS completely, others will force a title divide at the suspected aspect shift points before HS dubbing.

[sd1233]

Thanks orsetto. I reset the JVC SR-DVM70US when I was trying to fix this problem and now, I have no audio comming through the unit. I checked all of my settings and they seem correct. By the way, someone at JVC told me to reset the unit.

Thanks for your help!

[lordsmurf]

That points to a blank disc issue. What discs are you using?
Be sure to use high quality blank DVDs.

Writing at 1x or slower is a common write strategy (generic) related error.

[orsetto]

LordSmurf, what he's describing is the recorder's OS refusal to initiate the digital lossless copy feature from HDD to DVD, with an enforced real-time re-encode as the only option. That is a known issue with several common (albeit obscure and poorly documented) causes among JVC, Panasonic, Pioneer and Sony DVD/HDD models of all vintages. If this was a cheap or incompatible media problem, the machine would allow the high-speed copy feature to be started and then fail in the middle of it, perhaps slowing to 1x in the process as you suggest. But it would not calmly notify him at the outset that it was locking out the feature and would only perform a real-time 1:1 dub- thats much more likely a canned response to a "suspect" HDD recording. (I'm not saying rule out media failure completely, of course it might be a contibuting factor.)

That, or the loss of audio signal he experienced after a reset indicates a hardware failure: some batches of the SR-DVM70US are notorious for a "six months and then death" lifespan under frequent use. It may need service.

[sd1233]

Would reformatting the HDD help? Would I lose line 21 (closed caption) recording capability if I reformat the HDD?

Also please note that I use the same DVDs from Polyline Corp. 4.7Gigs. -R. I've had no problems recording with other HDD recorders unless the disc gets scratched.

Thanks for the help.

[orsetto]

Reformatting the HDD will not help if this is an occasional problem with just some of the recordings on the HDD, which is what you seemed to imply in your first post. If this is happening with ALL the recordings on your HDD, and the symptom began only recently, then a reformat might help, but is not a great idea on a JVC DVD/HDD recorder. If the recorder offers an initialize or reformat option in its own operating menus, it could be worth a shot, but under no circumstances remove the HDD from the recorder to reformat it in a computer: you'll kill it dead.

Sometimes it takes several posts before we get the full, accurate story of someones problem: these odd behaviors can be difficult to describe and diagnose. My earlier responses to you were based on a typical DVD/HDD recorder dysfunction in which the machine occasionally disallows high-speed dubbing to DVD: in those instances the machine itself makes clear thru displays and alerts that it is intentionally not letting you do this. The possibilities I suggested previously are the usual culprits, assuming the recorder is otherwise functioning normally most of the time.

If your JVC is not allowing any HDD titles to be high speed dubbed to DVD, then LordSmurf's media suspicions may be the cause. DVD/HDD recorders rapidly decline after the first few months of use: at first they will burn any media you put in them, but after awhile just about all of them reach a plateau where they can't handle most brands of 16x media. Sometimes this is due to laser power leveling off, sometimes its mechanical wear to the disc clamp preventing stable 16x rotation, sometimes its a change in the media dye specs that obsoletes the recorder burner. In all cases the "cure" for this is to use slower "premium" DVD-R media, the favorites are Taiyo Yuden aka TY aka JVC 8x and Verbatim DataLife Plus 8x. If changing to 8x media doesn't get you back into high speed dub mode, then media was not the issue and you'll have to explore the other possibilities mentioned (including an evaluation by JVC service center).

Before you do anything else, get your hands on a DVD+R/W and a DVD-RAM disc. Try those: if the problem is caused by a video or protection issue with one or more HDD titles, the recorder will almost certainly allow a high speed dub to these eraseable discs. If eraseable discs allow high speed dub, the problem is definitely with the HDD recordings themselves and the way they were formatted by the broadcaster. If all blank DVDs including eraseables get shunted straight into real-time 1:1 dub mode, the recorder almost certainly needs service. An HDD reformat might help, but doubtful.

BTW your model recorder is sold primarily to "professional" users: you did not say whether you are using it as a home-based recorder or for professional studio/post work. If the satellite recordings that are giving you trouble are taps from a proprietary or head-end feed in a pro environment, something may have recently changed in that signal chain causing the recorder to behave oddly.

[sd1233]

Hi orsetto:

Let me be more specific. I recorded approximately nine hours at once on the HDD. I used divide title and deleted what I did not need to get the recorded material under two hour chunks for burning in SP Mode. I have other material on the HDD that is shorter and I can see if that will record when I get into work tomorrow. The machine actually lets me do high speed dubbing but when I execute it, it tells me it's going to take the same amount of time as the recording. So, yes, it does technically allow me do execute high speed dubbing.

Even though I divide the title, is the nine hour recording overwhelming the HDD so that it can't accurately read the high speed request?

As you indicated, I will not reformat the HDD via computer. If there is no reformat function on the unit, I just won't do it.

Thanks for your help.

[sd1233]

Actually I think I read in the JVC SR-DVM70US manual (page 75) that you can't dub an edited program in High Speed Mode. I can't believe this is true and I am going to try recording something on the HDD for two hours and then dub it to DVD-R in High Speed Mode WITHOUT EDITING IT.

[orsetto]

I do not see such an advisory on page 75, and can't seem to find it elsewhere in the manual, although I could be misunderstanding some of the convoluted instructions (or you may have a slightly different version of the manual- there are several). It would be difficult if not impossible for JVC to market this machine to professionals at its ridiculously high price if it could not dub divided titles, that is the entire point of owning a DVD/HDD deck, I'm sure divided title dubbing from HDD is a feature. Like every other DVD/HDD unit, this one has dozens of asterisked (*) limitations all thru the manual: I still think something is up with the original source material on your HDD that is forcing a drop down to real time dubbing.

The dubbing interface for this model is confusing, to say the least. Double check that you have selected the "JUST dubbing" option when the screen comes up, and that it isn't set to "MANUAL dubbing". In manual mode, high speed will be disabled unless certain factors match precisely. The "JUST" setting automatically matches transfer rates and attempts high speed dubbing when possible. Also look again at the original recordings in the HDD navigator: it is a VERY easy mistake to overshoot your intended recording speed setting. You may think you recorded in SP when actually the deck was set to XP, if the HDD was set to XP there is no way it can high speed dub 90 mins onto a DVD without downshifting to a real-time SP re-encode of 90 (in your case, 86) mins.

Although I could not find a "divided titles can't be HS dubbed" warning in my copy of the JVC SR-DVM70US manual, its certainly possible such a limitation was documented at a later point: if that is what YOUR manual says, that is the simplest answer and may be the end game here. JVC has had a spotty history with HDD-equipped models- the consumer versions of five years ago had severe functional editing limitations and bizarre hard drive issues compared to other brands. Those models are now quite rare even on the used market, they disappeared quickly and were never replaced in the JVC consumer model lineup. It wasn't until some years later that the semi-pro triple-mode DV/DVD/HDD models were marketed (at staggeringly higher prices). Reports from professional users indicated the HDD issues and limitations of the consumer units had not been carried over to the new gray-cabinet pro models, although there were many reports of premature burner failure. Problems with dubbing edited HDD titles WAS an issue with earlier recorder designs: its possible JVC hoped to get around this by including a more robust copy list feature in the SR-DVM70US. Professional environments are less likely to keep content on the HDD indefinitely, so copy list dependency wouldn't be considered a dealbreaker to those users. This is more tedious, but also the more reliable edit mode in many recorders.

[sd1233]

Here are the steps I followed to Dub this Program:

1. Press DUBBING on the JVC Remote.
2. Select HDD--->DVD
3. The HDD--->DVD gives me three choices: 1. HIGH SPEED 2. JUST 3. MANUAL
4. I selected 1. HIGH SPEED FOR ALL OF THE DUBS EXECUTED SO FAR.
5. I did not EXECUTE dubs in 2. JUST or 3. MANUAL. However, I did get the point just before EXECUTE AND
FINALIZE and it still said the one hour 45 minute dub would take 106 minutes in each case.

Here's the part of the manual that I was referring to as it relates to dubbing EDITED DVDs (I copied the whole portion for context--i might be reading it wrong but I am referring to the portion in RED:

High Speed Dubbing (From HDD To DVD)

It is possible to dub the original recordings and/or play lists on the
HDD deck to DVD discs. The dubbing is performed in high speed,
keeping the original transfer rate.

NOTES:

●

After accessing the Dubbing Menu screen, it is not possible to
take out a disc.

●

It is not possible to dub copy-once titles in Video mode.

●

When dubbing a copy-once title, the data will be moved from
HDD to DVD upon completing dubbing.

●

When you cancel dubbing a copy-once title during dubbing, the
original recording on the HDD deck remains and the title copied
to a DVD disc is deleted.

● It is not possible to dub play lists which contain copy-once titles

It is not possible to dub the following programs to DVD-R/RW
disc (Video mode):

●

which contains more than one audio language.

●

which is on the play list.

which is edited (also RetroActive Recording).

●

which is recorded in LP mode or FP155-FP240 mode.

●

Recording may not be performed in the highest speed depending

on the characteristics of the disc used.

[sd1233]

THANKS FOR THE INPUT EVERYONE!

Well, I just tried dubbing a program that was recorded in SP Mode and was two hours and forty-two seconds long. I did not Divide the title. The program was dubbed in High Speed and took approximatey ten minutes to dub and Finalize. I guess I just found the answer to my question. HOW FRUSTRATING!

I was using the JVC SR-DVM700US but had to switch with my boss because it would not record Closed Caption Line 21 video to the HDD.

I have not confirmed this yet but I also think that the closed captions at the beginning and ends of the divided video on the JVC SR-DVM70US may be cut off because I divided the media!

There's a Panasonic model that we were borrowing that was a consumer model and did a much better job! Unfortunately, I can't find it to buy anymore!

This means my job will take three times as long AT LEAST!

Any suggestions? Thanks for letting me vent and for all of the input. It is much appreciated!

[orsetto]

If you're quite sure its worth moving to another DVD/HDD recorder, the only ones still available in North America are import models sold thru B&H, J&R, World Import, and 220electronics. None of these have NTSC tuners, they can only record via their line inputs. The current Panasonic is model DMR-EH69, a similar Pioneer is DVR-560 or -660. Both sell for about $500, note the Pioneer is discontinued but stock is sometimes still available. Both allow high speed edits of divided HDD titles, I can tell you that based on personal experience.

If you live in Canada or near enough to cross the border and shop there, the big electronics chains might still have a few recently-discontinued Sony RDR-HX780 recorders available. This is the Pioneer 560 with a Sony nameplate on it, very similar except the Sony can't record to DVD-RAM and the Pioneer can. It sells for $250-350 but is getting harder and harder to find (newer Sonys are terrible designs from Samsung with many limitations on DVD dubbing from HDD, avoid those).

In the USA you might consider the Magnavox H2160A (160GB HDD, $198) or MDR513H (320GB HDD, $269) available thru Wal*Mart website. These aren't as "easy to use" as the Panasonic, Sony, or Pioneer but have proven surprisingly reliable the last few years. If you're used to the JVC, the Magnavox might even be easy to operate by comparison. You are limited to one DVD menu design, choosing thumbnails for the menu is a tedious task, and you need to divide titles BEFORE doing any further trims to avoid conflicts. But speed-dubbing of divided titles from HDD to DVD works fine, and the Magnavox models include modern ATSC tuners for North American DTV broadcasts.

[sd1233]

Actually, I would prefer not to purchase another DVD/HDD Recorder especially since they're a dying breed. So, I am looking for cheap alternatives. We do not have the money to purchase something like Final Cut Pro or Avid and I don't need something that sophisticated. I record this media on a Harris Nexio Video server. If I could find a cheap way to convert that file to an MPEG2 file, I would use Video Re-do to do my editing and Convert X to DVD to burn the edited program to DVD. The recording is for a meeting that takes place over a day and a half every two months. Basically, the only editing I do is to take out the meeting break slates and divide the content into two hour chunks to fit on a DVD-R.

Thanks.