Calculate Subtitle Synchronizaiton

[manono]

Damn. I forget what I installed to get VDub to recognize AC3 audio. How about the AC3Filter? You shouldn't need to reboot, but you should close out VDub and then reopen it.

If that's not it, I'm sure someone else can help.

[lomaidala]

Nope, that's not it either.

[jagabo]

64 bit vs 32 bit problems? 64 bit programs require 64 bit codecs and filters. 32 bit programs require 32 bit codecs and filters. The two systems can't use each others' components.

And it is AC3 ACM that you need to play AC3 audio in VirtualDub -- at least when using the MPG and AVI input filters.

[lomaidala]

Ah, so there's a 64-bit VirtualDub. I wasn't aware there was one until just now. Using it now, I've encountered a new error at a different stage. It happens when opening myvob.avs:

AVI Import Filter error: (Unknown) (80040154)

I'm guessing I need to do some re-installing at the 64-bit level with related programs, codecs, plugins, filters, etc.? I'm just not sure which ones. Or maybe some directory paths I can just reroute/update?

A little extra history: before trying the 64-bit version of VirtualDub, I tried both the 64 and 32-bit versions of AC3 ACM, and both gave me the audio error message mentioned earlier. I am running 64-bit Windows XP. But I am also able to use 32-bit VirtualDub with video filters (so far I've successfully encoded with resizing, cropping, and embedded subtitles).

[lomaidala]

Okay, I've been doing some tests and I am one step closer to accurately calculating exact subtitle synchronization, which is the core of this thread. I think the only thing I'm missing that seems vital is:

The exact end time of the very last subtitle. Is there any way to calculate this or view it?

[manono]

The exact end time of the very last subtitle. Is there any way to calculate this or view it?

From an SRT file? Open it in Notepad and scroll down to the end.

If VobSubs, open the IDX in SubtitleCreator and scroll to the bottom.

If from some other kind of sub file, please tell us what it is.

[jagabo]

You don't need to know the time at the end of the last subtitle. Matching the time at the start of the sub with the time the person starts speaking will be accurate enough. And there is no visual reference for the end of the sub -- ie, the sub usually doesn't go away until some time after the speaker has stopped speaking.

[lomaidala]

If VobSubs, open the IDX in SubtitleCreator and scroll to the bottom.

The source is DVD subtitles. I have an IDX, but I'm unable to install SubtitleCreator. I get the following message:

".NET runtime library 2.0 or newer is required. You have ."

I believe I already have it installed though. My computer tells me I have the following installed:
Microsoft .NET Framework

You don't need to know the time at the end of the last subtitle. Matching the time at the start of the sub with the time the person starts speaking will be accurate enough.

I understand that such methods are usually accurate enough, but I' m trying to calculate as close to exact as possible. The best way I know how to do this is to take the exact start time of the first subtitle and the exact end time of the last subtitle, then stretching and offsetting the overall timing to match it to the video. Stretching and offsetting is required in my case because the timing in the SRT I extract is off.

[lomaidala]

If VobSubs, open the IDX in SubtitleCreator and scroll to the bottom.

The source is DVD subtitles. I have an IDX, but I'm unable to install SubtitleCreator. I get the following message:

".NET runtime library 2.0 or newer is required. You have ."

I believe I already have it installed though. I have:
Microsoft .NET Framework 4 Client Profile
Microsoft .NET Framework 4 Extended

You don't need to know the time at the end of the last subtitle. Matching the time at the start of the sub with the time the person starts speaking will be accurate enough.

I understand that's usually accurate enough, but I' m trying to calculate as close to exact as possible. The best way I know how to do this is to take the exact start time of the first subtitle and the exact end time of the last subtitle, then use SubRip to stretch and offset the overall timing to match it to the video.

I use time stretch and time offset because the overall timing in the SRT I extract is not accurate. I know the IDX is a source for the the first subtitle start time (I can see it using Notepad). It's the last subtitle end time that has me stumped. I'm hoping I can view it in SubtitleCreator, if I can get it working.

If there's a better way to be going about doing all this, I'm open to suggestions.

[jagabo]

You can be just as exact using the start time of the last sub.

[manono]

The source is DVD subtitles. I have an IDX, but I'm unable to install SubtitleCreator. I get the following message:

".NET runtime library 2.0 or newer is required.

Can't help you there. SUPViewer can view SUP subtitles which you can extract from the DVD using PGCDemux. You kind of have to know how many subs there are because it shows you the first one and then you can 'Go To' whichever one you like after that.

jagabo's right, though. You can't get any more accurate than by knowing the beginning time of the first line and the beginning time of the last line and stretching between those two times.

[lomaidala]

That's odd. I've done some tests that indicate that the end time of the last subtitle is more accurate than the start time of the last subtitle (when defining and changing the complete time range). Any reason that would be?

And you're not gonna believe what happened when I tried to launch SupViewer:

Component 'MSCOMCTL.OCX' or one of its dependencies not correctly registered: a file is missing or invalid

Sounds like more of a Windows issue than a video issue, but if anyone knows how to fix this, please let me know. I'm determined to do a test with exact end time in hand.

[manono]

I found MSCOMCTL.OCX in Windows/System32 of my WinXP install. I'll enclose it for you:

[lomaidala]

Wow, thank you! But will it conflict with 64-bit Windows XP?

[manono]

But will it conflict with 64-bit Windows XP?

Dunno.

[jagabo]

On my computer (Win7 64 bit) it's in C:\Windows\SysWow64\.

[lomaidala]

Okay, I am 99% of the way there to answering the grand question of this topic! Maybe even 100%, depending on how you guys answer.

I was able to get SubtitleCreator installed by installing an earlier version of .NET Framework (in my case, 3.5). Apparently, certain programs require specific versions of .NET, and not necessarily the latest release.

I've discovered I can use SubtitleCreator to save the IDX timestamps as an SRT! This gives me precise start times that are a perfect match. This combined with SubRip's OCR seems to be almost exactly what I've been looking for all along! I mean, why stretch and offset times to get them close when you can simply copy and paste the exact times? The only problem is the end times of subtitles that are supposed to match the start time of the following subtitle (referred to as "continuous" in Aegisub when they do connect). These read as 00:00:00.000. Is there any easy way, using any software, to get these "zero" end times to match up with the subtitles that follow them?

I've discovered a semi-automatic method using Aegsub that involves reorganizing subtitles, "marking" those with zero end times, duplicating the document, making all lines continuous in one document and then copying and pasting only the group that is "marked" back into the other document. While I am pretty satisfied with this method, I just want to make sure there isn't a faster way, something perhaps in SubtitleCreator, Aegisub, or anything really.

[jagabo]

Apparently, certain programs require specific versions of .NET, and not necessarily the latest release.

Each major version of .NET is incompatible with other versions. So you have to have the right one(s) for the software you're using. Don't know about the 0 end times.

[lomaidala]

Thank you everyone for the help. The process I'm using now seems to be working well, except for this one episode I've run into. The timestamps in the IDX I get using VobSub are way off. The subtitles begin about 23 minutes too late. As a test, I can't even encode the original subs into the video using AutoGK because the first subtitle begins after the episode ends. Yet the subtitles show up fine when I play the video using the original Video TS folder I ripped! How can this be?

Is there a way to calculate exactly how much the IDX timestamps are off by? Or maybe just rip them right in the first place?

[manono]

The timestamps in the IDX I get using VobSub are way off. The subtitles begin about 23 minutes too late.

Maybe there's an episode before that one also about 23 minutes long?

If so, add a negative delay to the IDX the exact length of that previous episode. That can be done using the Cutter utility that's included in the VobSub package, or using SubtitleCreator. Then, if necessary, you can add them to AutoGK as external subs using the CTRL-F8 trick:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/256625-How-to-add-permanent-subtitles-with-AutoGK-a...I-DivX-or-XviD

If you do it that way use the drop-down box to get to the IDX instead of the text-based subs it also accepts. Those are the ones you'll see listed upon first trying to load external subs.

You can probably get subs with the correct timings to begin with using PGCDemux. You'll get them in SUP format and you can convert them to VOBSubs using SubtitleCreator. You might have to tick 'By VOB ID' rather than the default 'By PGC'. I'd have to see your DVD to be sure.

[lomaidala]

You can probably get subs with the correct timings to begin with using PGCDemux. You'll get them in SUP format and you can convert them to VOBSubs using SubtitleCreator.

That worked! Thank you! As it turns out, checking either 'By VOB ID' or 'By PGC' in PGCDemux both work fine, and result in identical timestamps. And you are right, I didn't mention in my last post that there is one episode before this one on the DVD, and its length is 23 minutes and 28 seconds. I had a feeling there was a connection, but wasn't sure since I haven't had problems extracting timestamps from other DVDs in the same series.

Should I not be using VobSub to get the timestamps? Should I just be using PGCDemux all the time instead? Or only when situations like this arise?

[manono]

You're welcome.

Most of the time VobSub Configure works to get subs with the correct timings. And it's a one-step process where the workarounds require multiple steps. So I get them using VobSub Configure first and only use a different method if that doesn't work.

[lomaidala]

Well, I've successfully completed 15 episodes thanks to the help I've received in this topic. But now I've hit another episode that is causing me problems.

The timestamps I get using PGCDemux start out in sync with the audio, but gradually go out of sync the further along it gets into the episode (the timestamps I got using VobSub were even worse). Yet once again, the subtitles show up fine when I play the video using the original Video TS folder I ripped.

Is there a way to extract the exact timestamps used in the DVD?

7/2/2017 Edit:
As for the other issue I had with VirtualDub not accepting AC3 audio files, I was able to solve this by downloading the AC3 plugin by fccHandler:
http://gral.y0.pl/~fcchandler/Plugins/AC3/index.html