Photoshop CS5 & RAM

[Noahtuck]

I just put a 6 core system together for someone and they are going to be using it mostly for photography & CS5.

I already put in 8gigs of DDR3 DC ram and he was thinking about adding another 8gigs for a max of 16.

Would he notice or gain a fair amount of performance going from 8 to 16 ?

I rarely use photoshop so i don't know that much about it.

This is the ram,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231426

it was on sale for 70.00.

[poisondeathray]

depends on how his usage pattern

you would only notice performance gain, if he is always near or above 8GB usage (maybe has multiple raw files open, multliple programs open etc...encoding video simultaneously)

if he's just editing 1 photo in photoshop you won't notice any difference

[Noahtuck]

I never thought about that.

He pretty much just uses PS and one photo at a time, filters, etc. but he is going from a single core to a 6 core so he might start pushing it a bit more.
LOL!!

I know he uses .raw.

I'll just tell him to keep an eye on the ram usage and go from there.

I doubted he would need any more as 8gigs is a fair amount already.

He does not mess with video or play games or anything like that.

I only have 4gigs of DDR2 DC ram and even with my heavy video usage i don't think i've ever maxed out mine!!
LOL!!

Which leads me to my next post....

Thanks!

[lowellriggsiam]

He'd notice a huge difference in After Effects, however I'd have to agree with poisondeathray. With Photoshop that 8GB difference would depend on his usage. I am running a 6 core with 8GB RAM and it's done me well with PhotoshopCS5.

[Case]

I've seen a big difference in performance between various workstations with varying amounts (6 to 16 GB) of RAM, using Photoshop, when working with files for XL printing (think billboards, posters). A single large file (more than 30,000 px wide) with 20 layers and effects is no exception. But sometimes you need to open and works with three such files at the same time. And have some other memory-hungry apps open at the same time. When the memory limit is reached, Photoshop starts using the (slower) scratch disk and forgetting undo steps, and that is seriously hindering performance. In order to get any work done, one starts changing the way of working to accommodate and ease Photoshop, which may be illogical to a creative process. More RAM would have helped that. More is better.

If the person for whom the system is, suggests more RAM, then it should be a done deal.

[Noahtuck]

well i was not trying to discourage him, if he wants to spend more $$$ he can have at it.
LOL!!

I was just not sure if it would help that much.
He mostly just does weddings and graduations, family, etc.

Thanks

[ogk]

Max out on RAM

Photoshop uses random access memory (RAM) to process images. If Photoshop has insufficient memory, it uses hard-disk space, also known as a scratch disk, to process information. Accessing information in memory is faster than accessing information on a hard disk. Therefore, Photoshop is fastest when it can process all or most image information in RAM. If possible, allocate enough RAM to Photoshop to accommodate your largest image file.
How much RAM can Photoshop access? This much:
Photoshop version----------- OS version -----------------Maximum amount of RAM that Photoshop can use
CS4, CS5, 32 bit --------------------Windows 32 bit -----------------------1.7 GB
CS4, CS5, 32 bit -------------------- Windows 64 bit ----------------------- 3.2 GB
CS4, CS5, 64 bit* -------------------Windows 64 bit --------------------As much RAM as you can fit in your computer

[ogk]

How Photoshop allocates RAM
When Photoshop starts, it allocates, or sets aside, a portion of RAM, the size of which is based on the amount that is designated in the Photoshop Memory & Image Cache preferences. While this RAM is reserved for Photoshop processes, it may be used by other applications when it isn't actively in use by Photoshop, and is released when you quit Photoshop.
If the percentage of RAM allocated to Photoshop is too high, both the operating system and Photoshop can swap pages out of RAM, causing slow performance in Photoshop. Page swapping is a normal operating system function that only affects performance when the amount of RAM that Photoshop and the operating system are trying to use is more than the total amount of RAM on the computer. If you experience slow performance, reduce the amount of RAM assigned to Photoshop to 50% or 60%.
Photoshop can only use the first 2 GB of RAM on the computer. This limit is based on hardware and operating system limitations. The operating system uses some of this RAM, so the Photoshop Memory Usage preference displays only a maximum of 1.6 or 1.7 GB of total available RAM.
If you have 4 GB or more of RAM, set the Maximum Used By Photoshop in the Memory Usage section of the Memory & Image Cache preferences to 70%. This amount ensures that Photoshop uses as much of the first 2 GB of RAM as possible, while reserving enough RAM for other applications.

[Noahtuck]

I like that last line,

CS4, CS5, 32 bit --------------------Windows 32 bit -----------------------1.7 GB
CS4, CS5, 32 bit -------------------- Windows 64 bit ----------------------- 3.2 GB
CS4, CS5, 64 bit* -------------------Windows 64 bit --------------------As much RAM as you can fit in your computer

LOL!!

Lots of good info there!
Do you have a link to where it came from ?

The Gigabyte mobo i put in it will run up to 16gigs of DDR3 DC ram.

He lives on a ground floor and does not have air conditioning and it gets pretty warm around here in the summer, it was 88 degrees out last sunday and it's not even summer here yet!!!

The 6 core is stock at 2.8ghz but i see where it runs pretty cool with the stock heatsync up to 3.5ghz.

I am trying to get him to spend the extra $80.00 for a Corsair H50 so i can bump it up to 4ghz, but either way the better cooling will help a lot this summer!

Maybe i can talk him into both, but i really don't have to talk him into the extra ram as he has brought it up a couple of times.

He is coming over this weekend to pick up the system so i will just go over a few things with him and see what he thinks.

I am not into still photography so i don't know a lot about CS5, etc.

He gave me his Lightroom and CS5 dsic's so when i install them i will have to see if he know's about setting it up to use maximum ram.

After all he is going from a single core 2.8 or 3.0 ghz with a couple of gigs of DDR ram to this 6 core with 8gigs of DDR3 DC so he will already think he is in heaven!!

Thanks again for the CS5 info!

[edDV]

It's been a while since I did serious pre-press with Photoshop but 2GB RAM then kept swap disk access to a minimum with 30-90MB frame scans. What could he possibly be doing that requires more than 4GB? How many undo files does he need and must all undo update be in RAM?

Who is paying for this? Seems the system should be scaled down so he can afford an air conditioner.

Above it was suggested you monitor RAM usage. I seriously doubt he needs more than 2GB for photos or 4GB for extreme usage.

[Noahtuck]

Who is paying for this?

Well i sure the heck aint!!
LOL!!
Obviously he is.

Seems the system should be scaled down so he can afford an air conditioner.

LOL!!

Well it's already built and sitting here running, so there is really nothing to scale down, i'm gonna run some benchmark and stress test's on it tonight and tomorrow morning, as i am overclocking it & setting it up in the bios right now to test the temp's, i just figure going for good aftermarket cooling at this point would be more beneficial than adding another 8gigs of ram.
But i am more used to building systems for gaming and video, not still photography as i don't know what works how in hires still photo apps.


And for monitoring ram usage, that was me.

I figured before he blew more $$ on another 8gigs of ram that he should just monitor the ram usage of the 8gigs already in the machine, i already put a ram meter on his desktop, so if he ends up not peaking or maxing out, then there is no need for more ram.

And when it comes to working with hires .RAW photos and some of the filters, etc. i know they can suck up a lot of memory and power unless you want to go for lunch and come back hoping they are done processing, espc. when you are originally working on a single core CPU.

I just figured 8gigs of DDR3 DC would be way enough.
But then ya know what Tim always said....

MORE POWER!!!!!
OOH OOH OOH!!

[edDV]

Who is paying for this?

Well i sure the heck aint!!
LOL!!
Obviously he is.

Seems the system should be scaled down so he can afford an air conditioner.

LOL!!

Well it's already built and sitting here running, so there is really nothing to scale down, i'm gonna run some benchmark and stress test's on it tonight and tomorrow morning, as i am overclocking it & setting it up in the bios right now to test the temp's, i just figure going for good aftermarket cooling at this point would be more beneficial than adding another 8gigs of ram.
But i am more used to building systems for gaming and video, not still photography as i don't know what works how in hires still photo apps.


And for monitoring ram usage, that was me.

I figured before he blew more $$ on another 8gigs of ram that he should just monitor the ram usage of the 8gigs already in the machine, i already put a ram meter on his desktop, so if he ends up not peaking or maxing out, then there is no need for more ram.

And when it comes to working with hires .RAW photos and some of the filters, etc. i know they can suck up a lot of memory and power unless you want to go for lunch and come back hoping they are done processing, espc. when you are originally working on a single core CPU.

I just figured 8gigs of DDR3 DC would be way enough.
But then ya know what Tim always said....

MORE POWER!!!!!
OOH OOH OOH!!

Filters need CPU, not much more RAM. The system seems overkill already.

[Noahtuck]

Filters need CPU, not much more RAM. The system seems overkill already.

Funny that you should say that because about an hour and a half ago i said this to a friend, and i Quote myself,

it's just sad, all that power with that wussy ass video card and no games or video programs

LOL!!

A 6 core with 8gigs of ram, 2 1tb hdd's, 730watt PSU and a single DVDRW with a cheap 1gb video card that has HDMI and DVI output so he can run 2 LCD monitors.

AND the mobo has dual PCI-E slots for running TWO video cards!!
But the 1 that is being used, the video card is not even up to running COD Black Ops!!
Hell it won't even run BF BC2!!

No games, no bluray & no video programs or video work......


But hey, we want what we want regardless of how we are going to use it....

[edDV]

Filters need CPU, not much more RAM. The system seems overkill already.

Funny that you should say that because about an hour and a half ago i said this to a friend, and i Quote myself,

it's just sad, all that power with that wussy ass video card and no games or video programs

LOL!!

A 6 core with 8gigs of ram, 2 1tb hdd's, 730watt PSU and a single DVDRW with a cheap 1gb video card that has HDMI and DVI output so he can run 2 LCD monitors.

AND the mobo has dual PCI-E slots for running TWO video cards!!
But the 1 that is being used, the video card is not even up to running COD Black Ops!!
Hell it won't even run BF BC2!!

No games, no bluray & no video programs or video work......


But hey, we want what we want regardless of how we are going to use it....

You have no clue what you are doing do you? One video card is enough for Photoshop for two monitors and a low one at that. Did he ask for a game machine?

[Noahtuck]

You have no clue what you are doing do you? One video card is enough for Photoshop for two monitors and a low one at that. Did he ask for a game machine?

Yeah i have a clue!!

Do you have a clue ?

Did you even bother reading what i wrote or is it that you can't comprehend what i wrote ?

The point is, that much power just to have a cheap ass video card for doing still photos on 2 moniors!!

With that CPU and that type & that much ram it deserves at least one high end video card for games at least!!
Not to mention video encoding!!

The system seems overkill already.

I guess you were just blowing smoke out your (up)tight ass when you wrote that.....

[Case]

and a low one at that.

Not too low end. Photoshop CS4 and CS5 can use the GPU and the video RAM of OpenGL enabled video cards for e.g. faster rendering.
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404898.html

[edDV]

and a low one at that.

Not too low end. Photoshop CS4 and CS5 can use the GPU and the video RAM of OpenGL enabled video cards for e.g. faster rendering.
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404898.html

Yes but does is the user using those filters?

[edDV]

You have no clue what you are doing do you? One video card is enough for Photoshop for two monitors and a low one at that. Did he ask for a game machine?

Yeah i have a clue!!

Do you have a clue ?

Did you even bother reading what i wrote or is it that you can't comprehend what i wrote ?

The point is, that much power just to have a cheap ass video card for doing still photos on 2 moniors!!

With that CPU and that type & that much ram it deserves at least one high end video card for games at least!!
Not to mention video encoding!!

The system seems overkill already.

I guess you were just blowing smoke out your (up)tight ass when you wrote that.....

I read the full thread.

From what you have written, and without a spec from the customer, it seems to me you are selling an overspec'd machine to an old man without air conditioning.

Until you admitted you were charging him, I was going to say you were being overgenerous with your donation.

Why don't you ask in a Photoshop forum?

[edDV]

Here are the basic support links for optimizing Photoshop CS5.

If you want to optimize OpenGL support, you will use a Quadro card that fits the available budget not a GeForce card.

Tested video cards | Photoshop CS5
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/831/cpsid_83117.html

GPU, OpenGL support | Photoshop CS4, CS5
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404898.html

Optimize performance | Photoshop CS4, CS5
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404439.html#main_Max%20out%20on%20RAM

Optimize the OS for Photoshop
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404439.html#main_Optimize_the_OS_for_Photoshop

64-bit Operating System benefits and limitations in Photoshop CS5 and CS4
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404901.html

[edDV]

NVidia support

Adobe Photoshop CS5 automatically detects NVIDIA® GeForce® or NVIDIA® Quadro® GPUs to enable these accelerated features
http://www.nvidia.com/object/adobe_photoshop.html

[Case]

Photoshop CS4 and CS5 can use the GPU and the video RAM of OpenGL enabled video cards for e.g. faster rendering.

Yes but does is the user using those filters?

Not just filters. Quite a lot has to be calculated (rendered) before being shown, even a scaled down view. The benefit is bigger for larger and more complex files. I can see how that is an advantage to a (pro) photographer working in Photoshop on e.g. 21 mp images.

[edDV]

Photoshop CS4 and CS5 can use the GPU and the video RAM of OpenGL enabled video cards for e.g. faster rendering.

Yes but does is the user using those filters?

Not just filters. Quite a lot has to be calculated (rendered) before being shown, even a scaled down view. The benefit is bigger for larger and more complex files. I can see how that is an advantage to a (pro) photographer working in Photoshop on e.g. 21 mp images.

I agree it can be useful but the OpenGL Quadro cards get expensive. My last high end Photoshop experience was with 30-90MB scanner files using a P4 with 2GB RAM. You had to generate many layers and undos to trigger the scratch disk. More CPU power would have been helpful. My main point is the system should be sized to the usage pattern of the buyer. It is easy to overkill the hardware.

Some more useful links:

http://www.thelightsright.com/OptimizePerformanceCS5-Part1
http://www.thelightsright.com/OptimizePerformanceCS5-Part2

Memory and performance
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Photoshop/11.0/WSfd1234e1c4b69f30ea53e41001031ab64-748aa.html

Camera Raw
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Photoshop/11.0/WSB5C0E258-66DE-4089-9CB0-42F396E2B814.html

[poisondeathray]

More ram can actually decrease performance if you don't setup your bios correctly

If you populate all slots, many motherboards will drop the SPD timings to 2T command rate if you don't pay attention

Some applications are more sensitive to bandwith, some are more sensitive to tighter timings (e.g. low CAS latency, 1T timings). In general, tighter timings will yield better improvement than higher memory speeds across more applications