Do you turn on TBC for EP/SLP recordings?

[digicube]

I noticed it made the picture worse during slow motion scenes such as the attached video. I think I should turn off TBC for all EP/SLP recordings. My TBC is a 1T-TBC-GL.

Which is sad because EP recordings are the ones that need help while SP recordings don't.

[KarMa]

How is it worse? You only posted one video so comparison is impossible. I also usually always use my line TBC when running any type of tape (SP/LP/EP), and tend to get better results this way. Old EP/LP tapes tend to do the vertical jump more than SP, so I might turn off the TBC in favor of the video stabilizer on my JVC if the tape is really bad.

[digicube]

I uploaded a video without TBC.

[KarMa]

Yeah that's certainly a problem. I'm not sure how these stills on tape were recorded but the TBC is obviously not playing nicely with it. Also that's not slow motion but just a series of still shots taken at one or two frames per second (assuming it's even progressive). If you have any more of this style of footage (a series of stills) I'd avoid the TBC. I'm sure you would get the same results if your stills were recorded using SP.

[JVRaines]

I think I should turn off TBC for all EP/SLP recordings. My TBC is a 1T-TBC-GL.

There's no need to adopt a blanket rule. Try the TBC on each tape. If it makes the picture worse, then drop it. You may have better luck using a DVD recorder as a stabilizer.

[digicube]

Awww. But I like blanket rules. There should be universal rules like the laws of physics.

[manono]

I think we're discussing two different kinds of signal synchronizers. The 1T-TBC-GL is a frame synchronizer while what's probably needed, if the tape isn't too far gone, is a line synchronizer as mentioned by both KarMa and JVRaines. I always use the line synchronizer in my VCR but rarely need the frame synchronizer I have.

[digicube]

I always use the line synchronizer in my VCR but rarely need the frame synchronizer I have.

Makes me think those expensive TBCs like Datavideo 1000 is not worth the investment.

[orsetto]

Yikes, that 1T-TBC-GL is a pricey item! For poor-quality EP-speed VHS, passing the signal through a killer dvd recorder like the famous/infamous Panasonic ES10 en route to your PC might be a lot more helpful (not to mention a fraction of the 1T-TBC-GL cost). But if you can afford that TBC, what the heck: it has to be better than the typical, cruddy AVT-8710 or DataVideo TBC-1000.

Any VHS containing a series of stills or slow-mo is one of the worst torture tests for a TBC: it almost always results in that bisectional skewing in your example. I've seen it with both types of TBC: external frame syncs like the 1T-TBC-GL, and the built-in line sync of premium JVC and Panasonic VCRs. Ordinary EP/SLP hardly fares any better with TBC: I long ago discovered my slow-speed recordings invariably look better unprocessed. TBC and/or DNR nicely cleans up color and noise issues of EP/SLP, but the TBC adds jumpiness and skewing, which is far more objectionable than noise. I capture SLP in all its raw ugliness, or don't bother. Saving the TBCs and processors for SP, where they have a fighting chance to improve things.

The only two "TBCs" I've seen that can sometimes yield improvement with SLP/EP tapes are the built-in circuits of the Panasonic AG1970 and AG1980. The two VCRs look alike but use vastly different circuits. The AG1970 has a very weak line TBC and ineffective DNR, but the weak TBC is uniquely suited to certain tapes that won't tolerate any other processing. The newer AG1980 has excellent non-defeatable DNR and an optional, powerful TBC. These are of different design than the equivalent JVCs or older AG1970, and can help with tapes that are hopeless on any other VCR. Unfortunately, the AG1980 has been reduced to academic interest at this point: most have deteriorated beyond repair (strangely, the older AG1970 is practically indestructible). The premium JVCs (and derivative Mitsubishi) employ TBCs that don't handle SLP/EP too well (jitters and distorts), but are quite good with SP.

[digicube]

I got it for $50 on craigslist. Datavideo TBC-1000 has been going for like $300 on ebay. I thought market price determines what's best.

According to this link, 1T-TBC-G is just another generic Cypress TBC and it's not as good as AVT-8710 or DataVideo TBC-1000. http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html

I will keep a look out for those Panasonic SVHS VCRs on craigslist.

[orsetto]

I got it for $50 on craigslist. Datavideo TBC-1000 has been going for like $300 on ebay. I thought market price determines what's best.

$50 for the 1T-TBC-GL is a steal, considering its never available second-hand on eBay and typically sells new for $550 at vendors like B&H. eBay prices for the AVT-8710 and DataVideo TBC-1000 fluctuate but tend to be on the high side, mainly because those two miserable little boxes were the only TBCs ever made that were optimized specifically for VHS. They're also the only two that were/are promoted by LordSmurf both here and at DigitalFaq, and he is the guru who determines the desirability of such things. The trouble with both boxes is sample-to-sample variation from their respective factories (bad chipsets, bad solder joints, bad or inadequate power bricks) coupled with overall poor construction that leaves them vulnerable to physical circuit damage from shipping or casual users. All this generally makes them a losing gamble second hand, unless you get an ironclad trial period and return guarantee. Brand new, they aren't much better: the AVT is decently priced but you never really know what you'll get (many new ones don't even fix dropped frames properly) while the DataVideo is hideously overpriced at $500 given its issues and mediocre performance (unless modified).

That is the reason many of us still involved in VHS transfers gave up on dedicated TBCs: finding one that works transparently and reliably is like finding a Willy Wonka golden ticket: near impossible. Most decent-quality dvd recorders accomplish the important dropped frame repair more transparently, some (like the Panasonic ES10) aren't transparent but make up for it with unique ability to repair distortion. Combined with the line TBC and Digital Noise Reduction of a premium VCR, and a MacroVision filter box when necessary, you're covered for nearly any VHS issue one might normally encounter.

Expert techs like LordSmurf are critical of such compromises for not literally being true TBCs, and he is technically correct: ideally, one would want a perfectly-functioning dedicated TBC. The trouble is finding one, along with other gear LordSmurf recommends as top-shelf. He's had incredibly good luck in buying near-perfect examples of hardware that gives most other buyers grief, combined with locating expert techs to do repairs when needed (plus being able to expense it as part of his business). DigitalFaq is an immensely useful resource, LordSmurf has very high standards, but random people just now starting a VHS project are simply not going to obtain good samples of items he feels are vital to a high quality result. Most of this stuff was niche-appeal, small-mfr, limited-production hardware that does not age well. Unless you are a good electronics repair tech (or know one locally), you'll need to find workarounds and compromises. Its 2017: VHS is beyond dead, along with the obscure accessories that improve it. We must make the best of whats still available, functional, and reliable. Or, just ship your priceless tapes to LordSmurf's studio, and pay him to do it- in some cases that would be more cost-effective.

According to this link, 1T-TBC-G is just another generic Cypress TBC and it's not as good as AVT-8710 or DataVideo TBC-1000. http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html

Sorry to hear its really just a CBT-100 / AVT-8710 in a sturdier box: I had hoped it was something different. Looking at the photo on B&H web store, I see now it has the same tell-tale LEDs and touch-switches common to all Cypress TBCs. All it adds is a sturdy metal case and the pricey-but-useless genlock feature.

I will keep a look out for those Panasonic SVHS VCRs on craigslist.

Stay way from the AG1980, unless you can test its playback before money changes hands. Most have serious electronic deterioration that contaminates the video, and costs $200- $500 to repair (if you can even find a tech who knows how to do it correctly). The AG1970 is far more common in good condition, and can be picked up for $40-50 if you shop carefully. It isn't exceptional in any way, but is a nice rugged backup VCR that tracks better than average, esp SLP/EP recordings. And its primitive line TBC is unique among VCRs in being able to fix a couple oddball problems with a rare minority of tapes. Probably the best value-for-money VCR off Craigs List (or eBay, if you can pick it up local and not pay $40 for shipping). An AG1970 paired with a JVC SR-V10 or Mitsubishi HS-HD2000 should cover all the bases of a large VHS library.

[manono]

I will keep a look out for those Panasonic SVHS VCRs on craigslist.

The one I own is a PAL model, the Panasonic NV-HS860. It's no good to you if you work exclusively with NTSC tapes (it will play NTSC tapes, but the TBC turns off) and, since good NTSC VCRs with line TBCs are rare and expensive, you might be better off buying a DVD recorder to use in pass-through mode for its line TBC alone. For NTSC tapes I use a Panasonic DMR-ES15.

[JVRaines]

The ES15 does a great job on most VHS tapes, though mine pumps up the gain so I sometimes have to put a proc amp ahead of it to avoid clipping. It freaked out on a 1/2-inch open-reel (EIAJ) tape, however; the TBC-1000 handled that much better. I also had an AVT-8710 that was mediocre on everything and useless on EIAJ. So it's a mix-n-match proposition most of the time. Fortunately, a lot of VHS tapes look great with just the JVC processing and don't need any other help.

[lordsmurf]

I've been testing quite a few TBCs in past 2 months, and they're all different. All tend to make some sources (tapes, etc) worse, while others do not. The line-based JVC differs from the field-based Panasonic, for example.

So if a tape acts badly, try another VCR, maybe even another TBC.

The recording mode has little do with it. Sure, long-play VHS does have more errors, but it's mostly tracking/alignment, not timing related. I find more timing errors on SP more than anything else.