Capture analog video sources without a computer...

[bhershey]

I've been using this setup for the last 5 years to transfer VHS to PC...

JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-video --> ADVC-55 --> USB2 --> Win Vista --> WinDV --> AVI --> Pinnacle Studio --> DVD

I'd like instead to capture to memory cards from the TBC-1000s and bypass the computers. So the workflow would split into two...

Transfer Steps...
JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> ? (device that writes video to memory cards)

Is there a device to do such a thing? Since the TBC-1000's have multiple outputs I can set up monitors to watch over.

From there I can author to DVD...
Memory card --> USB2 --> Win Vista --> Pinnacle Studio --> DVD

Thanks for any tips!

[newpball]

You mean something like this:

Streaming Networks iRecord Pro+


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/750951-REG/Streaming_Networks_PMR202_iRecord_Pro.html

[bhershey]

Perhaps! It outputs directly to USB2 flash or fat32 formatted hard drives, 720 x 480 h.264 2.5 Mbps mp4 files. At $329 it is surely cheaper than a dedicated PC. B & H has a great return policy as well, may be worth a try. Thanks.

[bhershey]

If I get an S-video to HDMI convertor maybe I could use something like this, that records HDMI video directly to SSD drives for $327...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/841023-REG/Blackmagic_Design_HYPERD_PT2_HyperDec...tle_2_SSD.html

[jagabo]

Most of the video capture device manufacturers have standalone recorders now.
http://www.amazon.com/AVerMedia-Portable-Capture-Xbox360-60Mbps/dp/B00B2IZ3B0
http://www.amazon.com/Hauppauge-1540-Rocket-1080p-Recorder/dp/B00GEBVEI6

The problem with those devices is they record h.264 video so you will lose some quality compared to your currnent DV process. And editing h.264 video is harder than editing DV. They also deinterlace losing both spacial and temporal resolution. The same appears to be true of the other devices listed here.

[usually_quiet]

If I get an S-video to HDMI convertor maybe I could use something like this, that records HDMI video directly to SSD drives for $327...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/841023-REG/Blackmagic_Design_HYPERD_PT2_HyperDec...tle_2_SSD.html

It doesn't record standard definition video. Blackmagic's website lists the following resolutions as being supported: 720p50, 720p59.94, 720p60, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60, 1080PsF23.98, 1080PsF24, 1080PsF25, 1080PsF29.97, 1080PsF30, 1080p23.98, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29.97, 1080p30.

Also, it uses these codecs for recording: Uncompressed 10-bit QuickTime, Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) QuickTime, Avid DNxHD QuickTime, Avid DNxHD MXF.

[usually_quiet]

Most of the video capture device manufacturers have standalone recorders now.
http://www.amazon.com/AVerMedia-Portable-Capture-Xbox360-60Mbps/dp/B00B2IZ3B0
http://www.amazon.com/Hauppauge-1540-Rocket-1080p-Recorder/dp/B00GEBVEI6

The problem with those devices is they record h.264 video so you will lose some quality compared to your currnent DV process. And editing h.264 video is harder than editing DV. They also deinterlace losing both spacial and temporal resolution. The same appears to be true of the other devices listed here.

I know of a stand-alone recorder that doesn't de-interlace, although it does use H.264 hardware encoding: http://gamerzone.avermedia.com//game_capture/game_capture_hd_2 However, like the other portable game capture devices above, it only has HDMI and component video inputs. A converter would be needed to record from S-Video or composite.

[bhershey]

Great options and a good overview of current products. I want to try the AVerMedia Game Capture HD2.

S-video to component cables are OK? If so the cable would go between the TBC-1000 and the HD2.

[jagabo]

S-video to component cables are OK? If so the cable would go between the TBC-1000 and the HD2.

Cables labeled "s-video to component" don't convert s-video signals to component video signals. They are for devices that output component video on a ~7 pin mini DIN connector (the same size but more pins than a 4 pin s-video mini DIN port). They simply route the component signals to 3 RCA connectors. For example:

http://www.amazon.com/7-Pin-HDTV-Blue-Green-Component/dp/B00FBS3D82

[usually_quiet]

Oops. Wrong device... I will edit again when I find the right one.

This is an example of the right type of converter: http://www.ambery.com/costorgrgbco.html

[Brad]

If I get an S-video to HDMI convertor maybe I could use something like this, that records HDMI video directly to SSD drives for $327...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/841023-REG/Blackmagic_Design_HYPERD_PT2_HyperDec...tle_2_SSD.html

It doesn't record standard definition video. Blackmagic's website lists the following resolutions as being supported...

It does; you skipped over the "SD Format Support" heading right above the list of HD resolutions.

Annoyingly, if you don't record in Avid DNxHD MXF then it records eight channels of 24-bit PCM audio from HDMI or sixteen channels from SDI, even if all but two of those are pure silence. Massive waste of space on your SSD.

This guy seems to be happy using the Leitch DPS-575 broadcast TBC to feed his HyperDeck Shuttle 2 with LaserDisc sources. I was disappointed with my DPS-470AV for VHS, personally.

OP: I would stay away from the "S-Video to HDMI" converters unless you know of one from a reputable brand. The Chinese "composite to HDMI" converter that I tried juiced up saturation to ridiculous levels, among other nastiness. If you have the budget for the HyperDeck + SSD, you may be able to get away with a fairly cheap piece of broadcast gear with SDI output to transcode your S-Video signal since it's already been line-TBC'd by the JVC.

I'm guessing the HyperDeck is overkill for your purposes, though.

[bhershey]

you may be able to get away with a fairly cheap piece of broadcast gear with SDI output to transcode your S-Video signal since it's already been line-TBC'd by the JVC.

So if I use the http://gamerzone.avermedia.com//game_capture/game_capture_hd_2 which takes HDMI or component IN I can get a pass-through device from S-Video to component to feed it, like some DVD burners, correct?

The HD2 records MP4, H.264, 7.5 Mbps, 4GB/hour, which should be fine compared to a standard 2 hr Mpeg-2 DVD format.

Any glaring issues with this proposed setup?:

JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-Video --> DVD burner w/ pass-through --> component --> HD2

Thanks!!

[usually_quiet]

you may be able to get away with a fairly cheap piece of broadcast gear with SDI output to transcode your S-Video signal since it's already been line-TBC'd by the JVC.

So if I use the http://gamerzone.avermedia.com//game_capture/game_capture_hd_2 which takes HDMI or component IN I can get a pass-through device from S-Video to component to feed it, like some DVD burners, correct?

The HD2 records MP4, H.264, 7.5 Mbps, 4GB/hour, which should be fine compared to a standard 2 hr Mpeg-2 DVD format.

Any glaring issues with this proposed setup?:

JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-Video --> DVD burner w/ pass-through --> component --> HD2

Thanks!!

DVD burners are devices used with a computer. You mean a DVD recorder, not a DVD burner. It could work. DVD recorders can be used as a pass-through to supply both 480i and 480p via component. The additional processing they perform (noise reduction, sharpening, TBC) can be good or bad for your video.

[jagabo]

You want to put the DVD recorder before the TBC1000 so it can clean up the horizontal jitter -- assuming that's your purpose.

[usually_quiet]

You want to put the DVD recorder before the TBC1000 so it can clean up the horizontal jitter -- assuming that's your purpose.

Ordinarily, that is what a DVD recorder is used for, but the OP wants to use the DVD recorder as a S-Video to component video converter, so it has to follow the TBC1000.

[jagabo]

You want to put the DVD recorder before the TBC1000 so it can clean up the horizontal jitter -- assuming that's your purpose.

Ordinarily, that is what a DVD recorder is used for, but the OP wants to use the DVD recorder as a S-Video to component video converter, so it has to follow the TBC1000.

Then I'd skip the TBC1000 whenever possible. Jitter reduction is usually more important than constant vertical sync.

[bhershey]

Then I'd skip the TBC1000 whenever possible. Jitter reduction is usually more important than constant vertical sync.

The only reason I got the TBC-1000 in the first place is because the JVC SR-V101US doesn't output a sync signal.

To recap, my original setup:
JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-video --> ADVC-55

I'm learning a bit here and there trying to answer my original question, "How can I capture analog video without a computer?"

So far this is my take-away...

JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-video --> DVD Player pass-through --> Component --> Game Capture HD2 --> hard drive

Of course I can try it with and without the TBC-1000. This is for a mass transfer production shop, if that helps any suggestions you may make.

[Brad]

This is for a business? I would rather have a DVD produced from a DV capture than one re-encoded from 7.5Mbps hardware H.264.

What do you see as the advantage of changing your workflow?

[bhershey]

This is for a business? I would rather have a DVD produced from a DV capture than one re-encoded from 7.5Mbps hardware H.264.

What do you see as the advantage of changing your workflow?

Yes for a mass transfer business operation. The workflow change is to negate computer maintenance cost. With a dozen stations cranking for 5 years we're having significant computer failures... power supplies, memory, CPU thermal paste breakdown, etc. If we take away a $600 computer with so many potential failure points and replace it with two other devices for under $300 it may be a more cost effective workflow.

So are you saying definitively that 7.5Mbps hardware H.264 is worse than 2hr mpeg-2 DVD format? I would think it worth comparing, but I don't know that from experience. Doesn't a 2 hr DVD have 50% mpeg-2 compression? That's what Pinnacle Studio tells us during DVD renders.

Thanks!

[Brad]

Possibly responding too late, but better than never I suppose.

So are you saying definitively that 7.5Mbps hardware H.264 is worse than 2hr mpeg-2 DVD format?

No. You had indicated that your final delivery format would be DVD regardless, so I was sharing my personal, general assessment of "DV -> DVD" vs "7.5Mbps hardware H.264 -> DVD". The question you just asked would be about "DV -> DVD" vs "7.5Mbps hardware H.264", which isn't something I feel so comfortable generalizing about.

Doesn't a 2 hr DVD have 50% mpeg-2 compression?

"50% MPEG-2 compression" is basically a meaningless phrase, by itself.

[newpball]

This is for a mass transfer production shop...

Well then now we know how quality conscious this 'mass transfer production shop' is.

Pinnacle Studio ... Windows Vista... S-video to component cables... Routing S-video to a DVD recorder and through component to a capture card...

Good going......

[bhershey]

This is for a mass transfer production shop...

Well then now we know how quality conscious this 'mass transfer production shop' is.

Not understanding your comment... we use good vcr's, TBC-1000's, DV capture to standard mpeg-2 DVDs. Your suggestion on my original question on what is out there to take the computer out of the workflow was to use a capture device that records to 720 x 480 h.264 2.5 Mbps mp4 files.

My take away so far is this...

JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-video --> DVD Player pass-through --> Component --> Game Capture HD2 --> MP4, H.264, 7.5 Mbp --> hard drive

What exactly is your suggestion?

[bhershey]

"50% MPEG-2 compression" is basically a meaningless phrase, by itself.

When you burn a standard DVD format in Pinnacle the data rate is 8,500 Kbits/sec for any amount of video up to one hour. Anything over an hour reduces that number proportionally... 2 hrs is around 1/2 that, or 4,250 Kbits/sec.

For most of our output we burn a max of 1 hr per DVD to keep the highest Mpeg-2 data rate, but some are 2 hrs, so that's our current quality standard I'll be comparing with the proposed workflow.

Thanks for your input!

[usually_quiet]

You did not make it clear initially that this is for a mass VHS to DVD transfer business. The Game Capture HD II is designed for intermittent use by consumers. If used daily for long periods of time, they probably will not last long. ...and your old DV work flow is better, quality-wise.

[newpball]

My take away so far is this...

JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-video --> DVD Player pass-through --> Component --> Game Capture HD2 --> MP4, H.264, 7.5 Mbp --> hard drive

That's beginning to look like this:

[bhershey]

your old DV work flow is better, quality-wise.

Every study that compares the PSNR (peak signal to noise ratio) of H.264 and MPEG-2 (about half a dozen I've seen so far) show that H.264 at 7.5 Mbps clearly beats 8.5 Mbps MPEG-2 with all video types... from high movement sports to still video like a news desk.

Of course this new workflow is adding more steps that process the video signal, which may be the basis for the comments against it?

Proposed Work Flow...
JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-video --> DVD Player pass-through --> Component --> Game Capture HD2 --> H.264, 7.5 Mbp --> MPEG-2 DVD

Old Work Flow...
JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-video --> ADVC-55 --> USB2 --> WinDV --> AVI --> MPEG-2 DVD

The H.264 processing takes longer than MPEG-2, so we'll have to take that into account in the cost analysis. Since we do all our DVD renders overnight using automated, custom scripts time shouldn't be much of an issue.

Thanks again for your constructive comments. This sounds like new territory (capture without a PC), so I'm excited to test this out and post the results here!

[bhershey]

That's beginning to look like this:

lol good one. We have stainless steel wheeled carts with 5 VCRs stacked on each with the TBC-1000's and Canopus boxes on the lower shelf. Wheel them over to a 5 PC tower, plug in the USBs and start crankin We got carts stacked with cassette decks, others with 8-track players, scanners, turntables... a thing of beauty!!

[bhershey]

This was 5 years ago in the early days when it was just me and my office, before I bought the TBCs.

You'll see nine JVC SR-V101US VCRs, 2 cassette decks, 3 scanners, camcorders, a PC tower...


[Attachment 30698 - Click to enlarge]

This is when we used to track the jobs on a white board... we hit 25 jobs in-house at once so I had to take a pic of THAT!



Always exciting

[pippas]

Old Work Flow...
JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-video --> ADVC-55 --> USB2 --> WinDV --> AVI --> MPEG-2 DVD

I'm guessing you mean 'Firewire ' after the ADVC55 and not 'USB' ?
As vaporeon800 suggested in post #18, creating your DVD from DV, rather than converting to highly compressed h.264 is probably a better work flow.
So why not just store the DV output from the Canopus card directly onto a solid state DV recorder?.
something like one of these perhaps:

http://mcetech.com/quickstreamdv/index.html

http://www.datavideo.us/datavideo-product-families/datavideo-video-recorders/datavideo...rive-recorder/

If you use an SSD in the recorder, then that removes all the moving parts from the DV capture. And no computer...

[bhershey]

So why not just store the DV output from the Canopus card directly onto a solid state DV recorder?.

Yes, sorry I did mean firewire from the canopus.

Well now we're talkin! This is exactly what I need, and I found this, which is less cost than a computer... DV to 32gb flash drive, AVI.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/684200-REG/Canon_1751V350_FS_CF_Pro_Portable_Compact.html

Oh my... change is gonna come wooo! It took awhile but we got there TYTYTY!!!

This is my FINAL workflow...

JVC SR-V101US --> S-video --> TBC-1000 --> S-video --> ADVC-55 --> Firewire --> Canon FS-CF, AVI, Flash Card

No more computers for capture! HAPPY DANCE lol