Why HDFury? Detailed debate, please...

[krumm-krumm]

Hi, I am looking to convert HDMI feed from my satellite TV broadcast (possibly HDCP enabled) into Component (YPbPr) out. (I intend to capture Full HD 1920x1080i with my Hauppauge HD-PVR box for strictly personal viewing.)

I have been recommended by a friend to go with HDFury 4 (their latest version, since my set-top box outputs HDMI v1.4).

However, I have exhaustively read their documentations on their site, and also HDFury4's User Manual.

I have noted the following point: Nowhere on their site did they *explicitly* claim to strip HDCP. They have ranted against HDCP, but does HDFury4 *actually* remove HDCP? Or will I be buying a turkey?

A quote from their specs page:

3Dfury Specifications: HDCP supported (Integrated HDCP decipher engine, Pre-programmed HDCP key)

A quote from their user manual:

Disclaimer: In some countries, this product will not process HDCP input. When receiving content that has
HDCP encryption there will be no video output. A 3rd party and/or a custom firmware can be used.

Is that a guarded way of saying that HDCP-enabled content *may not* be viewed at all? I live in India, and I have sent them mails, but they have not responded.

Does anybody in this forum know much about HDFury4 and its results?

Also, HDCP apart, is HDFury much different than vanilla HDMI to Analog converters that retail at $40 - $90?

Any contributions will be welcome...

[jagabo]

HDCP is a digital technology. It can't be used on component video. Yes, the HDFury devices accept incoming HDCP encumbered HDMI and output component video. It's the whole point of the devices. I suspect the part of the manual you quoted is referring to HDMI output.

I don't know about India, but virtually every HDMI device is HDCP encumbered in the USA.

Quality, flexibility, and HDCP issues aside, the HDFure is no different from other HDMI-to-component devices.

[krumm-krumm]

@jagabo: I am looking to take the HDMI input from the STB and convert it into component. Does HDFury work in the USA? If yes, that would mean it really works, isn't it...

Please... I need to know this from experts like you before spending big bucks on it

[jagabo]

I don't have one so I can't tell you from personal experience. But if you go to AvsForum.com and search you'll see many discussions about the HDFury devices. It looks like all of them will connect to an HDCP protected HDMI device and output high def component or VGA video. It looks like most, or at least a large portion, of the posters there are in the USA.

At least one poster says the HDFURY4 won't work:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1344239/hdmi-to-component#post_20718424

You might need a Moome MUX-FHD:
http://www.moomecard.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=25&Itemid=23
(I don't know if it's available yet.) Then a plain HDMI to component converter.

[krumm-krumm]

Thanks! You made my life simpler...

If HDFury4 is compromised, then I'll take HDFury3.

[jagabo]

Here's the way I see it. The HDFury 1, 2, and 3 would all convert HDMI+HDCP to unprotected analog video. The 1 only to VGA, the 2 and 3 to component video. The jury is out on the HDFury 4. But if it doesn't do the same there's really no reason for its existence.

[TheFreeman]

HDfury4 will take HDMI in, output in either RGBHV or Component out of the box.
It will also allow to take HDMI in and output in DVI-D (without HDCP) to a DVI-D device/monitor.

If you want to get a DVI-D (without HDCP) to a HDMI capture device, then you also need the Dr.HDMI from HDfury, which is an EDID management tool, you simply load this usefull hardware with a DVI-D EDID file, and then you can trick the HDfury4 into believing it's connected to a DVI-D monitor, and you will get crystal clear DVI-D video out.

Also it can do dual simultaneous output in both analog and digital, so you can watch something and have it recorded at the same time.

The device have much more in it such as double/triple frame, dual projector mode, up to 720p288 and 1080p144 in dual or 720p144 and 1080p72 in single display mode.

HDfury4 just like previous version (HDfury1, HDfury2, HDfury3) is doing his work and its doing it amazingly well.

[jagabo]

We know the HDFury4 will take HDMI in and output RGB/component. The question is will it take HDCP encumbered HDMI in and output high def RGB/component? Why is it so hard to get an answer to this question from an authoritative source? And if it does, why does the manual say it doesn't (in "some countries" and what are those countries?)?

[krumm-krumm]

We know the HDFury4 will take HDMI in and output RGB/component. The question is will it take HDCP encumbered HDMI in and output high def RGB/component? Why is it so hard to get an answer to this question from an authoritative source? And if it does, why does the manual say it doesn't (in "some countries" and what are those countries?)?

That was exactly what I going to say... And it is precisely to get feedback from people like you that I started this thread...

Here's the way I see it. The HDFury 1, 2, and 3 would all convert HDMI+HDCP to unprotected analog video. The 1 only to VGA, the 2 and 3 to component video. The jury is out on the HDFury 4. But if it doesn't do the same there's really no reason for its existence.

As I want output in component only, so HDFury v1 it out of the league, and v3 is better than v2 in some essential features. That's why I went for v3.

v4 is super expensive, meant for 3D, and I don't know if my country is supported in HDCP deciphering, so its a big unknown risk for little gain (compared to v3).

[TheFreeman]

Not only it takes HDMI in and output RGBHV and component out of the box, but it can also output DVI-D out of the box (to a DVI-D monitor a DVI-D device).
It can also output dvi-d to a HDMI capture card (hauppage, blackmagic, etc...) but you need Dr HDMI for this feature.

So to summarize:

HDMI in > RGBHV/COMPONENT or DVI-D out of the box

It of course remove any CP in the process (there is no CP in analog output anyway) but it can do it on digital as well.
The manual is only for distributor who had issues in some countries, so distributor can offer a device that won't remove HDCP, but end user can just flash a firmware and retrieve the initial feature in a few seconds. when buying from them, you got the real deal out of the box, no firmware update requiered.

Is that clear now ?

[jonnyblobby]

HDfury4 will take HDMI in, output in either RGBHV or Component out of the box.
It will also allow to take HDMI in and output in DVI-D (without HDCP) to a DVI-D device/monitor.

If you want to get a DVI-D (without HDCP) to a HDMI capture device, then you also need the Dr.HDMI from HDfury, which is an EDID management tool, you simply load this usefull hardware with a DVI-D EDID file, and then you can trick the HDfury4 into believing it's connected to a DVI-D monitor, and you will get crystal clear DVI-D video out.

Also it can do dual simultaneous output in both analog and digital, so you can watch something and have it recorded at the same time.

The device have much more in it such as double/triple frame, dual projector mode, up to 720p288 and 1080p144 in dual or 720p144 and 1080p72 in single display mode.

HDfury4 just like previous version (HDfury1, HDfury2, HDfury3) is doing his work and its doing it amazingly well.

How exactly is this done using the Dr HDMI and HDfury4?
Is a user loaded EDID required on the Dr HDMI or should it work out of the box?
If it does need a user loaded EDID to achive HDMI out (no HDCP) where might one get this from?

[TheFreeman]

the Dr.HDMI have 2 user programmable banks (bank 6 and 7 if i recall well)
So you simply download the DVI-D EDID file from their forum here: http://dme.ghost2.net//forum/viewtopic.php?p=284212 (you need to be registered to access attachment in forum)

And then you load it to either bank 6 or 7.

the Dr HDMI can also sniff an EDID, so if you have a DVI-D monitor with 1080p capability, you can just connect the Dr. HDMI to your display and press the button in the middle, this will sniff the EDID and save it to bank number 8.

Dr HDMI can also be used to trick a PS3 into believing it's connected to a Simulview display, and using HDfury4 (3Dfury) you will be able to play 2 players sharing the same screen, each player see his own screen.

[jonnyblobby]

the Dr.HDMI have 2 user programmable banks (bank 6 and 7 if i recall well)
So you simply download the DVI-D EDID file from their forum here: http://dme.ghost2.net//forum/viewtopic.php?p=284212 (you need to be registered to access attachment in forum)

And then you load it to either bank 6 or 7.

the Dr HDMI can also sniff an EDID, so if you have a DVI-D monitor with 1080p capability, you can just connect the Dr. HDMI to your display and press the button in the middle, this will sniff the EDID and save it to bank number 8.

Dr HDMI can also be used to trick a PS3 into believing it's connected to a Simulview display, and using HDfury4 (3Dfury) you will be able to play 2 players sharing the same screen, each player see his own screen.

Thanks.

I have done this (loaded the sony bin onto the Dr HDMI)
In testing, if I output either a 720p60 or 1080i/p HDMI signal from either an AppleTV v2 or Cable HD-PVR to a HDMI/DVI monitor at the moment (Appletv->DrHDMI [sony bin] -> 3DFury -> HDMI input on monitor) it all works playing HDCP content, the monitor itself is HDCP compliant so its hard to say if the monitor is decoding a HDCP input.

My actual use is to send content from an AppleTV to a portable HD recorder (HDMI input)
So far, using the above method (with or without the 3Dfury) my HD recorder does not show an image (I only get a full red screen)
This is using the EDID from the HDCP monitor, if I use the sony bin EDID, i get no input unless I use the 3DFury.

What I need to clarify is, using the DrHDMI and/or the 3DFury, is it possible to record a HDCP protected source to my HD recorder using HDMI.
Understanding copyright issues, the purpose of this setup only includes content in which copyright permission HAS been given from the relevant parties for its use.

Being that DrHDMI and 3Dfury were purchased in australia from a local supplier, do these devices have the relevant firmware for this to be possible (if in fact it is even possible?) or do I require a separate firmware for either of these devices before it is possible.

[TheFreeman]

Yes you can do that, and you don't need any special firmware, you can do it out of the box.
However, in your description, you have made a mistake.

You should put Dr HDMI, on the output of 3Dfury, remember, we are tricking HDfury4 output so it believes it's connected to DVI-D monitor and output DVI-D crystal clear digital video.

So Apple TV > HDfury4 > Dr HDMI > TV or capture device.

[orsetto]

I am looking to take the HDMI input from the STB and convert it into component. Does HDFury work in the USA?

Among HDfury fans, the 3 and 4 are about equally popular. The 4 is more elaborate, with added features irrelevant for most ordinary video work. The 4 is reputed to be more compliant with HDCP: most shipped to USA apparently require firmware flashing to kill that. I have sat on the fence trying to figure out exactly how to do this before committing to a purchase: several tech-savvy forum posters say its simple and takes all of ten seconds, but whenever I investigate the suggested flashing application or instructions for actually doing the flash, I can't make heads or tails of it. I'm no stranger to flashing various other devices, I can strip down and repair a MacBook or Windows laptop and solve OS problems galore, but the instructions for the goofy proprietary flashing app needed to kill HDCP in the Furys give me a blinding headache every time I try to make sense of them. You could check out several threads like this over at AVS. If you directly contact the poster named "greaser" via PM, he can probably answer all your questions as he seems to be quite the HDfury guru.

[jonnyblobby]

Yes you can do that, and you don't need any special firmware, you can do it out of the box.
However, in your description, you have made a mistake.

You should put Dr HDMI, on the output of 3Dfury, remember, we are tricking HDfury4 output so it believes it's connected to DVI-D monitor and output DVI-D crystal clear digital video.

So Apple TV > HDfury4 > Dr HDMI > TV or capture device.

Thanks,

It does make sense now, I think another post I read on the matter led me in the wrong direct.

I have got one step further now in getting this to work.
Putting the devices in the correct order I managed to get a working setup to a PC capture card in RGB only (appleTV refused to change to component) I managed to finally get this to work when I used the DrHDMI on another fullHD tv to sniff and record its EDID to bank 8 and finally the appleTV let me select and output component (other source devices gave similar issues and are now working in component)

Before using this new EDID to get component I was just getting a full red image on my portable PRO HDMI recorder (which only accepts component HDMI but in any res/frame rate in either 50/60hz)

Although I having a working solution to a old PC capture card I currently am still stuck with the pro recorder.
Using any source device, HDCP or not, the pro recorder see's the video signal for a second or two and then reverts to a snowy image, as if it still detects an HDCP error. But without the DrHDMI or 3Dfury, this world normally just produce a error message from the source device rather than snow.
Am I missing something here?

[TheFreeman]

I am looking to take the HDMI input from the STB and convert it into component. Does HDFury work in the USA?

Among HDfury fans, the 3 and 4 are about equally popular. The 4 is more elaborate, with added features irrelevant for most ordinary video work. The 4 is reputed to be more compliant with HDCP: most shipped to USA apparently require firmware flashing to kill that. I have sat on the fence trying to figure out exactly how to do this before committing to a purchase: several tech-savvy forum posters say its simple and takes all of ten seconds, but whenever I investigate the suggested flashing application or instructions for actually doing the flash, I can't make heads or tails of it. I'm no stranger to flashing various other devices, I can strip down and repair a MacBook or Windows laptop and solve OS problems galore, but the instructions for the goofy proprietary flashing app needed to kill HDCP in the Furys give me a blinding headache every time I try to make sense of them. You could check out several threads like this over at AVS. If you directly contact the poster named "greaser" via PM, he can probably answer all your questions as he seems to be quite the HDfury guru.

The HDfury4 will output YUV and RGB out of the box in any countries, just like HDfury2 and HDfury3.
It will output DVI-D crystal clear out of the box in any countries, if connected to a DVI-D monitor.

The only thing you need is Dr HDMI in case you want to feed a HDMI device with a DVI-D monitor. (and you need to flash Dr HDMI with DVI-D EDID)

You don't need to flash anything on the HDfury4 at all, so don't get headhache at all

[TheFreeman]

Yes you can do that, and you don't need any special firmware, you can do it out of the box.
However, in your description, you have made a mistake.

You should put Dr HDMI, on the output of 3Dfury, remember, we are tricking HDfury4 output so it believes it's connected to DVI-D monitor and output DVI-D crystal clear digital video.

So Apple TV > HDfury4 > Dr HDMI > TV or capture device.

Thanks,

It does make sense now, I think another post I read on the matter led me in the wrong direct.

I have got one step further now in getting this to work.
Putting the devices in the correct order I managed to get a working setup to a PC capture card in RGB only (appleTV refused to change to component) I managed to finally get this to work when I used the DrHDMI on another fullHD tv to sniff and record its EDID to bank 8 and finally the appleTV let me select and output component (other source devices gave similar issues and are now working in component)

Before using this new EDID to get component I was just getting a full red image on my portable PRO HDMI recorder (which only accepts component HDMI but in any res/frame rate in either 50/60hz)

Although I having a working solution to a old PC capture card I currently am still stuck with the pro recorder.
Using any source device, HDCP or not, the pro recorder see's the video signal for a second or two and then reverts to a snowy image, as if it still detects an HDCP error. But without the DrHDMI or 3Dfury, this world normally just produce a error message from the source device rather than snow.
Am I missing something here?

I'm not sure, but if i was you, i would just post in their forums, explaining your story, because their guys who is doing support there is very good at EDID editing, so he can easily produce one custom EDID for your needs, they do this for free for any HDfury customers.

Normally if you get snow, or picture for 1 or 2 secs, it means the output is still encrypted, means you haven't connected a DVI-D monitor, or you haven't loaded a DVI-D edid on Dr HDMI. Your problem with component over HDMI is also EDID related, keep in mind, that you are dealing with 2 EDID, 1 that your source is seeing, the HDfury one, one that HDfury is seeing, the display , recorder or Dr HDMI EDID.

You also have an option on 3Dfury/HDfury4 , the last dip switch which allow you to either use an embedded fix edid, or to dynamically create a virtual EDID based on your sink edid parameters, so i suppose, you should move that switch in your case and keep the DVI-D EDID file on the Dr HDMI (connected at the digital output of the HDfury4)

Anyway, easier faster solution, is to just ask them in their forums, as i mentionned above, their guy called "wildchild" is expert at EDID editing !

[jypper]

I need help. I am not a sophisticated electronics or video technician. I am just trying to record off of Direct TV and Apple TV with the HD Fury Dr. HDMI. I tried to register on the Fury forum, but it keeps coming up I have made an error. So I have no idea how to program the user interface through USB. Do I need to buy more handshake devices? I will not record any copyrighted content. My recorder is HDMI input.

[theewizard]

to bad you spent your money before asking the question in this OLD thread
you should have started a new thread before you spent your money

I would have suggested looking at a HDMI-Cloner Box from Cloner Alliance