Looking for a 1080i deinterlacing Capture device with full surround audio

[thghgv]

Hello all,

I’m looking for a device that will capture from a source that is 1080i HDMI with full dolby digital 5.1 audio and produce a recordable output of 1080P with full DD5.1 surround audio. The source is an STB that interlaces EVERYTHING. So I need the device to be capable of deinterlacing the video at its output like the Magewell USB Capture devices do. I have a Magewell HDMI capture + USB which does a great job at deinterlacing video at its output, but it has no multi-channel audio support whatsoever. I also have a Hauppauge PVR2 GE+ device that will capture DD5.1 audio (via toslink optical) as well as the 1080i video just fine. But the Hauppauge device does NOT include any onboard facility to de-interlace the video. I must have the video deinterlaced at the output because deinterlacing after the fact requires a recode of video stream and that is not acceptable. The Magewell HDMI Capture plus’ onboard deinterlacing works VERY well so I know it’s possible to get decent onboard hardware deinterlacing.

I have been talking with Magewell about their Pro-Capture line of HDMI cards. They are saying most of that line of cards “can” do the audio portion with the newest version of their Capture Express utility. However I do not believe that the HDMI on my source carries anything but 2 channel audio. In order to gain access to the DD5.1 audio stream one would need a TOSlink optical connection which I do not see on any of the Magewell cards or devices.

So my question at this point; Is there a device that one can input program content that is 1080i, DD5.1 and get recordable output of 1080P with DD5.1 ?? Can the Hauppauge colossus 2 do this? I see it has an optical connection, but I’m wary of the hauppauge stuff anymore because of the fact that I already have a PVR2 GE+ that has no onboard deinterlacing.

[manono]

I must have the video deinterlaced at the output because deinterlacing after the fact requires a recode of video stream and that is not acceptable.

What do you think is happening that it's not "deinterlacing after the fact". If the source is interlaced, then it's being reencoded if it's being deinterlaced on-the-fly. Deinterlacing a source video requires a reencode. And you can do a better job yourself by deinterlacing it and reencoding it yourself after the capture.

[thghgv]

What do you think is happening that it's not "deinterlacing after the fact". If the source is interlaced, then it's being reencoded if it's being deinterlaced on-the-fly. Deinterlacing a source video requires a reencode. And you can do a better job yourself by deinterlacing it and reencoding it yourself after the capture.

Of course, in the case of the Magewell device, video is recoded/deinterlaced by the hardware. This is what I have found to be the BEST overall video quality preserver over ANY sort of software app based deinterlacing/recoding that is done post capture. I have found in the cases of most ALL of these capture devices, they ALL recode their outputs. None of them, the cheaper ones anyway, offer a RAW uncompressed signal. I have tried Virtual Dub, FFMPEG, Handbrake, other 3rd party tools, etc... You name it, I have tried it. These are all sub-par when compared to the raw deinterlaced output of the Magewell device. I will admit it could be due to operator error on my part. This mainly due to a profound LACK OF ADEQUATE DOCUMENTATION ON HOW TO GET THE MOST out of something like say FFMPEG for example... Seems many keep saying what you have said above - "deinterlacing is much better in software, post capture", but no one can point to a REAL, WORKABLE step by step, or a DEFINITIVE, HELPFUL tutorial on getting these tools to "do a better job"... Recoding with these tools always seems to introduce artifacts - pan juddering, video noise, variable bit and frame rates, etc. If there are some secrets to getting these tools to perform adequately, they certainly are well guarded.

[manono]

Of course, in the case of the Magewell device, video is recoded/deinterlaced by the hardware.

Then why did you claim otherwise in your initial post? Or perhaps you meant 'after the fact' to mean deinterlacing and reencoding after it's on the computer and not the deinterlacing and reencoding done by the capture device. Again, you can do a better job yourself if you can get it on the computer in all its interlaced glory.

I don't make television captures, so I can't help you there. Others may be able to. I make plenty of VHS tape captures and have no trouble making "raw' lossless (not uncompressed) caps with the interlacing intact for either PAL or NTSC sources.

Seems many keep saying what you have said above - "deinterlacing is much better in software, post capture", but no one can point to a REAL, WORKABLE step by step, or a DEFINITIVE, HELPFUL tutorial on getting these tools to "do a better job"...

First, you have to determine if you need an IVTC (if you're in NTSC land) or a deinterlace. If in PAL land, is the capture really interlaced, or only encoded as interlaced (there's a big difference), or perhaps phase-shifted as many PAL broadcasts are? Second, if truly interlaced, do you want a single-rate deinterlacer or a double-rate deinterlacer (aka 'bobber')? In any event, for IVTC or fixing phase-shifted video caps, AviSynth's TIVTC is what you want. For the best deinterlacer, AviSynth's QTGMC is what you want. Mention of AviSynth was conspicuously absent in your previous post.

[thghgv]

First, you have to determine if you need an IVTC (if you're in NTSC land) or a deinterlace. If in PAL land, is the capture really interlaced, or only encoded as interlaced (there's a big difference), or perhaps phase-shifted as many PAL broadcasts are? Second, if truly interlaced, do you want a single-rate deinterlacer or a double-rate deinterlacer (aka 'bobber')? In any event, for IVTC or fixing phase-shifted video caps, AviSynth's TIVTC is what you want. For the best deinterlacer, AviSynth's QTGMC is what you want. Mention of AviSynth was conspicuously absent in your previous post.

This is all NTSC sat broadcast video @59.94 fps.

I have avisynth and have played with it a little. However unless one has a definitive roadmap for this tool (which I have yet to find), or another app that knows how to use it, or a front end to make it work standalone, the thing is useless (for me at least). I looked around for a step by step on exactly how to get AviS to work and found nothing but cryptic, contradictory, and misleading verbiage vaguely describing suggestions on how to make it do anything. I have a scripting GUI for it that I just found the other day but haven't chance to play with it yet. At this point I'm not certain that ANY deinterlace method will really do what is needed here. I have since dumbed down the output res of the STB to 720P and done much better looking captures. 720P @ 60fps (i.e. 59.94, which is how it comes off the STB natively) looks way better than 1080i @ any frame rate even before deinterlace processing. With a progressive source being captured I have no need to destructively process the signal. Other than for audio sync tweaks, or container reassignment, processing can be kept to a nil and only non-destructive processing at the most. Besides the captured interlaced content playing back with "mice teeth" in other media players, one is really only seeing an alternating 540 lines of resolution at any given time with 1080i anyway. It's really unfortunate that with all the technological advances being made in this area, there hasn't been a reasonably priced raw video capture device capable of grabbing the full surround streams as well, that gives one complete control over HOW the content gets stored on the host system (raw or compressed).

[usually_quiet]

Hello all,

I’m looking for a device that will capture from a source that is 1080i HDMI with full dolby digital 5.1 audio and produce a recordable output of 1080P with full DD5.1 surround audio. The source is an STB that interlaces EVERYTHING. So I need the device to be capable of deinterlacing the video at its output like the Magewell USB Capture devices do. I have a Magewell HDMI capture + USB which does a great job at deinterlacing video at its output, but it has no multi-channel audio support whatsoever. I also have a Hauppauge PVR2 GE+ device that will capture DD5.1 audio (via toslink optical) as well as the 1080i video just fine. But the Hauppauge device does NOT include any onboard facility to de-interlace the video. I must have the video deinterlaced at the output because deinterlacing after the fact requires a recode of video stream and that is not acceptable. The Magewell HDMI Capture plus’ onboard deinterlacing works VERY well so I know it’s possible to get decent onboard hardware deinterlacing.

I have been talking with Magewell about their Pro-Capture line of HDMI cards. They are saying most of that line of cards “can” do the audio portion with the newest version of their Capture Express utility. However I do not believe that the HDMI on my source carries anything but 2 channel audio. In order to gain access to the DD5.1 audio stream one would need a Toslink optical connection which I do not see on any of the Magewell cards or devices.

So my question at this point; Is there a device that one can input program content that is 1080i, DD5.1 and get recordable output of 1080P with DD5.1 ?? Can the Hauppauge colossus 2 do this? I see it has an optical connection, but I’m wary of the hauppauge stuff anymore because of the fact that I already have a PVR2 GE+ that has no onboard deinterlacing.

I don't know of any HDMI capture device/video processor which encodes using software, accepts interlaced video as input, correctly de-interlaces, and accepts DD5.1 optical audio as an audio source.

In the past, Magewell's Capture Express utility has only been able to capture two channel audio from an HDMI source. Are you sure that has changed and the Magewell software now has the ability to capture DD 5.1 audio? If you are certain it has changed and the problem lies with your STB's HDMI audio output, there are HDMI audio embedders which accept DD 5.1 Toslink optical audio input and combine it with HDMI video input for output. This is one example: https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Embedder-Analog-Digital-Converter/dp/B076JR9ZZF

[manono]

AviSynth has no GUI, although AvsPMod serves the purpose for many. Otherwise you create and edit text files. Other than that, the website has a ton of information for those new to AviSynth and the AviSynth forum at Doom9 and several forums here are available for help.

At this point I'm not certain that ANY deinterlace method will really do what is needed here.

Said by someone that has never used a decent deinterlacer or performed an IVTC.

I have since dumbed down the output res of the STB to 720P and done much better looking captures.

Most channels are broadcast at 1080i, with few 720p channels. You want to capture the way it was broadcast. By capping 1080i channels as 720p, you're not only deinterlacing but resizing as well. I think you probably know this already and if that's satisfactory for you, then fine. Maybe you're not as concerned with quality as you claim. Many programs are created as film, and if broadcast as 1080i, what you need is an IVTC and not a deinterlace, resize, and framerate change to 59.94fps.

Besides the captured interlaced content playing back with "mice teeth" in other media players, one is really only seeing an alternating 540 lines of resolution at any given time with 1080i anyway.

Another misleading statement. If the source is film, as many television shows are, a simple IVTC (NOT a deinterlace) restores the full 1080p resolution. Your deinterlacing capture device won't do that. You can only do that once the show is captured to your computer. Even an inferior program such as Handbrake can IVTC it for you.

[FLP437]

Magewell Pro Hdmi is able to capture multi-channel audio up to 8 channels 32bit.
In the manual it is referred support for capturing IEC60958/IEC61937 audio, including uncompressed audio such as 5.1 channel, 7.1 channel, DTS, THX, SRS and compressed audio such as AAC and MP3.

The capture can be made directly with virtualdub2 using audio(00 pro capture hdmi) WDM instead of audio(00 pro capture hdmi) (both under audio label). Virtualdub2 is able to capture up to 8 channels at 16 bit depth and up to 192000 hz sampling rate . It works fine with hdmi using formats like DTS , DTS HD Master etc.

However Dolby digital doesn´t seem to be included in IEC60958/IEC61937 audio, so perhaps for this it seems to be converted to a 2 channels signal ( not supported or perhaps because hdmi in this case only transports 2 channels)

The MultiAudioCapture utility included in the SDK is able to capture in the original bit depth and sampling rate up to 32 bit and I think 384000 hz.
It´s possible to use an workaround as a macro mouse recorder ( as mouse recorder) to launch simultaneous virtualdub for video capture and multiaudiocapture for audio limiting synchronizing problems.

Recording audio using a separate sound card/DAW that support optical input and virtualdub for video can be other possibility using any workaround to synchronize the captures.

The last version of magewell utility capture express (2806 ) doesn't seem able to capture more then two audio channels as the previous version and only captures video in mp4.