MaestroSBT, GfD subtitles don't sync with video

[lienny]

I have an mkv file with a subtitle file in the format of srt.
I want to burn those into a dvd. Here is what I did
-convert mkv into m2v using hcenc
-extract an ac3 audio file from the mkv using Total Video Converter
-use MaestroSBT to convert the .srt file into .son file. (following this guide: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic292313.html?sid=bcbbcd46e0324fd9f2b46881f854bac9#1936684) <====I didn't use the original file because GfD couldn't add the srt file without giving errors, borax showed me the guide and I was finally able to load the sub with GfD w/o errors, (thank you borax!)
-use GfD to author the dvd.

My problem is that when I played my dvd, the subtitles don't sync with the video. So I figure the frame rate I set is probably wrong (I set it to be 29.76 base on the guide stated above)
here is the part where the guide says to set it to be 29.76

Timing:
FPS in: 29.76
This should be the same as the output. So if your making PAL, chose 25, if your using a half-d1 hack of 23.976 or whatever keep them the same. Maybe its just me but my source was 23.976 so I set it accordingly and my actual movie was to be 29.76, when I set it this way it was really off, so this is my suggestion.

FPS out: 29.76
See above

then I thought 29.76 is probably wrong so I used gspot to check the frame rate of the converted m2v video mentioned above and found out that the m2v file has a frame rate of 29.97, I went back to re-convert the srt file (this time I chose the frame rate to be 29.97), but in the end, the subs still don't sync with my video file when I play the dvd. Anyone knows how to fix this?

[Midzuki]

Hi there.

How did you convert your MKV video to m2v
Because MKV files can have variable frame rate, which may lead to
synchronization issues after a format conversion.

\\\\

[lienny]

I used hcenc and launch the avs file with this script:
DirectShowSource("J:\Mkv 01.mkv")

I tried to use Gspot to check the frame rate of my Mkv file but it didn't show the frame rate when I load the mkv file so I was only able to check the frame rate of the converted m2v file.

[borax]

If the audio file is in sync with the video, then I would assume that the video conversion was/is ok. Other question: How did you get the subtitles out of the MKV file? I have no experience with MKV at all, so I cannot really help you with this problem.

-use MaestroSBT to convert the .srt file into .son file. (following this guide: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic292313.html?sid=bcbbcd46e0324fd9f ... 9#1936684)

In this guide, the first step is to translate the SRT to SSA with Subtitle Workshop. I have found out, that it makes a difference if you FIRST set the input framerate and then open the SRT file or if you FIRST open the SRT and select the input frame rate afterwards.

[manono]

Yeah, I was wondering about that setting the framerate stuff myself, as I don't use Subtitle Workshop. If it were I, I'd do the SRT to SSA conversion for MaestroSBT by using something that doesn't mess with the timings, something like SubResynch (included with VobSub). That way you don't have to worry about whether or not you messed it up somewhere along the way. This still won't guarantee the subs are in synch with the audio, though. If they're off by the same amount all the way through, it's a simple matter to delay them by the correct amount. If the synch gets progressively worse, it's probably a PAL<->NTSC issue which can also be dealt with.

[lienny]

The srt file is actually originally separated from the mkv so I didn't extract the sub out of the mkv file.

and yes, the audio file is in sync with the video.

[borax]

Does the srt file play in sync with the original MKV file?

[lienny]

yes, I actually resync the whole thing using subtitle workshop, I rename the srt and mkv so that they both have the same name, so when I load the srt dile in subtitle workshop, it loads my mkv at the same time as well

[borax]

And when you load the SSA file together with the MKV file in subtitle workshop, are these still in sync?
What about if you play the MKV file together with the SSA file in a soft player like MPC?

[lienny]

yes to the first question, as for the second one, I couldn't load the sub and video together in MPC so I don't know.

[borax]

To further narrow down the problem:
When you load the SSA file together with the m2v file in subtitle workshop, are these still in sync?

[lienny]

yes, they do sync

[borax]

Ok, so the problem comes in either in the MaestroSBT step or by muxman.
Please check if the timecodes in the sst file and in the srt file are the same (srt uses hh:mms,msec and sst uses hh:mms:ff where ff is the frame number running from 0 to 29 for 1 second)
In order to check the timecodes on the final DVD, you may open the vob file(s) in dvdsubedit.
Or maybe it is something completely different:

I actually resync the whole thing using subtitle workshop

If subtitle workshop has some problems with the timing itself, you would have resynced the subs to 'wrong' timings. That's why I asked you to check with another program (like MPC).

I couldn't load the sub and video together in MPC

Even the m2v and the srt will not play together?

[lienny]

-the .srt file does show up when I play my original mkv with MPC (and they sync also), however, when I tried to load the ssa file with MPC (File-->Load Subtitles) it didn't give any errors but nothing happened (i.e the sub didn't show)
-and I just download dvdsubedit like you suggested to check for the timing, when I compared the srt and the one shown in dvdsubedit, they didn't match, but they weren't completely off-synced. But when I play the dvd, the sub was off alot compared to what is shown in the dvdsubedit.
srt:================ 00:06:38:275-->00:06:39:481
sub shown in dvdsubedit: 00:06:38:547-->00:06:39:748

srt:================ 00:37:53,028-->00:37:54:254
sub shown in dvdsubedit: 00:37:53:313-->00:37:54:547

srt:================ 00:51:58:247-->00:52:00:751
sub shown in dvdsubedit: 00:51:58:513-->00:52:01:015

srt:================ 01:01:06:811-->01:01:09:959
sub shown in dvdsubedit: 01:01:07:080-->01:01:10:249

srt:================ 01:05:51:543-->1:05:56:247
sub shown in dvdsubedit: 01:05:51:813-->01:05:56:517

[borax]

-the .srt file does show up when I play my original mkv

Ok, but what about playing the srt with the m2v

...when I play the dvd, the sub was off alot compared to what is shown in the dvdsubedit.

From the timecodes shown, it seems to be a quite constant delay with about 250 msec. If it is more when you play the DVD, then somewhere in your process the timecode of the movie has changed. The DVD player will show the subtitles at exact the timings shown in DVDSubEdit (why should it do something else?). If the subs are off alot, then the video frame at timecode 01:05:51:543 in the mkv file is most likely not the same as the video frame at 01:05:51:543 in the m2v file. But I can't tell you why. As I told you, I don't have any experience with the mkv format.

[manono]

Heck, just use DVDSubEdit to shift all the timings. It's a simple thing to do and would have saved you - what? - 5 days of messing around with it. It's an MKV you started with. Unless you convert it properly, you can get these kinds of out-of-synch problems. Next time don't mess with something you downloaded. Here's a guide for delaying the subtitle times using DVDSubEdit:

http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSubEdit/UserManual/helpfile.htm

You'll want section 3.2.

[lienny]

@manono: seems like you don't really get what I mean, the timing of the subs shown in dvdsubedit didn't really match with what shown when I played the dvd, so even if I retime the whole subs following the guide you gave, the timing will still be off.

[manono]

Doesn't matter. If they're all off by a constant amount they can be resynched easily.

By the way, I use MaestroSBT nearly every day after editing SSA subs and have never found the times to be off. Whatever the probem is, it's not caused by MaestroSBT. If this is your script:

DirectShowSource("J:\Mkv 01.mkv")

then that's probably the source of the problem right there. So, I'll repeat borax' last question - what about playing the srt with the m2v?

[lienny]

you misunderstood me again, when I said they didn't really match each other, I meant that for example, if the subs shown in dvdsubedit are off by 250s, when the dvd plays the subs are off by an amount of seconds which is different than 250s . So even if I shift the whole subs (and I did google how to do the time shifting in dvdsubedit before and I managed to make the two match when compared side by side but like I said, it didn't work) , timing will still be off because dvdsubedit isn't showing the 'real' timing (or something like that).

anyway: I forgot to answer borax's question last time, yes, when I played the mkv file with vlc, the srt showed and they do sync.

[manono]

Geez, are you dense, or what? Play the DVD. Find out how much the subs are off when the DVD is played - not by getting the difference from DVDSubEdit. Make the change in DVDSubEdit. If that doesn't fix it entirely when the DVD is saved and played, adjust and save it again.

anyway: I forgot to answer borax's question last time, yes, when I played the mkv file with vlc, the srt showed and they do sync.

I get it now - you're really a troll just trying to get us to waste even more time with you. He (and I) asked about the M2V (3 times now, I think). Of course, that's a soundless video, so you'd have to kind of work without the sound, but it most likely isn't in synch by that point.

[lienny]

I'm sorry I misread your question, I didn't mean to waste your time or borax's. I apologize. And no, I just open the m2v in mpc and the subs don't seem to sync with the video file, I'm trying to figure how convert the mkv file properly or at least figure out how much to shift the whole sub. Thanks for your help.

[manono]

I'm trying to figure how convert the mkv file properly

Typically AviSynth scripts for MKVs using DirectShowSource go something like this:

DirectShowSource("myfile.mkv",fps=25.000000,conver tfps=true,audio=false)

Adjust the framerate for your source. That can prevent the problem you had. Also, make sure your AviSynth version is reasonably up-to-date, as DirectShowSource didn't used to be very good.

...or at least figure out how much to shift the whole sub

The earlier link shows that. Go File->Open Full Domain, and load the first VOB. The rest will follow. Click on "Retime Selected Subpics" and set the delay in the new little screen. Go Edit->Apply Last Modifications To All. Finally go File->Save All Modifications.

[lienny]

yeah, what I meant is that i'm watching the m2v with subs in mpc and trying to figure how many second should I shift it XD, kinda hard since there's no sound so I think I'll try your script you suggested first then. Thank you.

[manono]

Hehe, me, I'd watch the DVD with sound and try and figure it out. Or play a VOB with the subs in some player where you can adjust the subs. I synch SSA subs to audio using SubStationAlpha before ever doing the encoding, so I can't really help with what you're doing, but I expect others can.