Menu questions

[DeVante]

I have searched the archives for a definitive answer on my question, but found none.

I am trying to make a VCD out of three episodes of Sifl & Olly. I am also wanting to add chapters.

My questions are as follows;

Is there a way to make a menu in which you can select options using the arrows on your controller/remote control?

Ideally, I would like to put the VCD in my DVD player or Dreamcast (using VCD playing software), have the main menu pop up, and be able to select which one of the three episodes I want to watch, or select the chapter I want to jump to, using the remote control arrows (having the selections highlight onscreen as a DVD menu does).

Is this possible?

Is this what people mean when they say motion-menus?

What programs and/or methods can be used to attain such results?

Thanks for the info!

[KingJohn]

Roxio Video Pack 5, makes them so easyyyyyyy

[DeVante]

Roxio Video Pack 5, makes them so easyyyyyyy

I've got to say that this is a $500 program with NO demo. :>

[marsmayhem]

Motion menus refer to the actual menu consisting of an mpeg clip, as opposed to a non-moving still background for a menu.

The VCD specification doesn't support hilighting or moving a selection using the arrow keys, no matter which package you use. All you can use to make a selection is Prev/Next/Play and the numeric keys.

[KingJohn]

Don't know what DVD player you have, but the arrow keys work fine on mine and will scroll to the next selection, pressing play/enter to play that track.

The background could be a sill picture, the buttons can be a mpeg movie

[marsmayhem]

Are you playing a VCD or a DVD? The guy was asking about VCDs. I'd like to see a VCD that lets you move around the menu like a DVD does. Truly, I would...

DVD spec supports it (and in theory, so does SVCD). But barebones VCD doesn't.

[KingJohn]

Nobody said you could do the same as DVD, but simple movement using arrows or numbers on a background picture with or without animated buttons can be done.

Each button can be a little movie, or simply a text link, numbered according to the number of movies, stills, music tracks.

The menu can easily select which movie you want to play, and with a bit of cutting, you could even select which "part" of that movie you wanted to play.

In use, selecting item 1 will play the track until the end, move on to the next movie/join, stop or loop back to menu.

This is easily achieved in Roxio Video pack 5

However a DVD player will not display the "DVD" menu by pressing the "DVD" menu button, that is for DVD's not VCD's

To interrupt a VCD, you need to go back to "its" menu by pressing the number keys or stop play, so VCD disks are not as good, but that was not the question.

[marsmayhem]

The guy was asking about putting a *VCD* into his player. He said he wanted to make a *VCD* out of three clips. That sounds like the question to me:

"Ideally, I would like to put the VCD in my DVD player or Dreamcast (using VCD playing software), have the main menu pop up, and be able to select which one of the three episodes I want to watch, or select the chapter I want to jump to, using the remote control arrows (having the selections highlight onscreen as a DVD menu does). "

By using the remote control arrows, I'm assuming he means he wants to do the same thing as what he's seen on a regular DVD menu, where you can move a highlight around on the screen, then hit play to select it. You can fake Left and Right arrows using Prev/Next and a bunch of segment play items, but Up/Down you're out of luck.

And you *don't* have to cut a movie up to have entrypoints into the clip. Maybe VP5 can only handle it this way. You'll get pauses as you go from clip to clip, whereas entrypoints will be seamless (ie. no interruption) if done properly through decent software.

And a properly designed VCD will let you hit the Return button to go back to the menu - that way you don't have to hit the stop button.

Devante, VCDEasy will let you do most of what you want to do, although you'll find that you'll have to create most of the assets yourself. Why don't you try Ulead's DVD Workshop while it's still available for download as a trial. It's friendlier and less quirky than VideoPack5.

[marsmayhem]

And since you were (kinda) wondering, I have a Pioneer DV525 and a Panasonic DVD-CV290...

[entoncesuno]

WHERE can i buy Roxio Video Pack 5?
their website does not sell in US, which is where I live?

anywhere else I can get it?
thanks

[KingJohn]

WHERE can i buy Roxio Video Pack 5?
their website does not sell in US, which is where I live?

anywhere else I can get it?
thanks

You have a personal message

[KingJohn]

My questions are as follows;

Is there a way to make a menu in which you can select options using the arrows on your controller/remote control?

Ideally, I would like to put the VCD in my DVD player or Dreamcast (using VCD playing software), have the main menu pop up, and be able to select which one of the three episodes I want to watch, or select the chapter I want to jump to, using the remote control arrows (having the selections highlight onscreen as a DVD menu does).

Is this possible?

YES

Roxio Video Pack 5, makes them so easyyyyyyy

[Zeliard586]

VCD Composer features hotspots for selections, but you gotta match the image up with the hotspot for it to work I assume, I haven't tried it but please let me know if it works. Still trying to figure out how to nest menus with it myself. :/

[DeVante]

The guy was asking about putting a *VCD* into his player. He said he wanted to make a *VCD* out of three clips. That sounds like the question to me:

"Ideally, I would like to put the VCD in my DVD player or Dreamcast (using VCD playing software), have the main menu pop up, and be able to select which one of the three episodes I want to watch, or select the chapter I want to jump to, using the remote control arrows (having the selections highlight onscreen as a DVD menu does). "

By using the remote control arrows, I'm assuming he means he wants to do the same thing as what he's seen on a regular DVD menu, where you can move a highlight around on the screen, then hit play to select it. You can fake Left and Right arrows using Prev/Next and a bunch of segment play items, but Up/Down you're out of luck.

And you *don't* have to cut a movie up to have entrypoints into the clip. Maybe VP5 can only handle it this way. You'll get pauses as you go from clip to clip, whereas entrypoints will be seamless (ie. no interruption) if done properly through decent software.

And a properly designed VCD will let you hit the Return button to go back to the menu - that way you don't have to hit the stop button.

Devante, VCDEasy will let you do most of what you want to do, although you'll find that you'll have to create most of the assets yourself. Why don't you try Ulead's DVD Workshop while it's still available for download as a trial. It's friendlier and less quirky than VideoPack5.

This is all regarding VCDs.

It seems, from what you've said, that I could make a menu in which I can press the Prev/Next buttons to highlight the menu items I want to select, as long as they're all in horizontal alignment, and press play to choose them.

Also, from what I've read in this thread, you CAN create the arrow-controlled menus I desire with SVCDs.

With SVCDS you can only get about half as much video onto one as a VCD can hold, correct? SVCDs hold about 35 minutes while VCDs hold 60?

Lastly, I'm not quite sure of entrypoints, yet. If I make chapters that are not entrypoints using TSCV, for example, are you saying that it will have slight pauses for every chapter point while watching the VCD?

Please confirm or correct this information.

Thanks!

[DeVante]

Oh, and I almost forgot.

Is it possible to add normal computer data to a VCD?

In other words, let us say I want to add a program for converting VCD movie files back to mpeg files or avi files. Is this possible? Adding a zip file to a VCD for instance?

Lastly (for real), I want to have a menu option on my VCD lead to a multi-page episode guide. Is it possible to do this? Maybe having to scroll through the episode guide to see all of the pages?

Thanks!

[Lady Tatjahna]

Ok guys...

I am using VideoPack for doing all my VCDs... (since I don't have a DVD-burner yet... ) ... And sorry to disturb some ones, but VideoPack DOESN'T permit navigation highlight in VCDs !! If so, believe me that I would have done it on my first VCD !! And in the help of Videopack, it is wrote black on white that this isn't supported...

Well... maybe I missed something, if so, just tell me!

Cya!

[marsmayhem]

Thank you, Lady Tatjahna. I was trying to tell letmeinforgodsake but he just kept repeating the same old thing, saying that his player could. Which version of VP are you using, BTW?

Devante:
Yes, in theory the SVCD spec does support highliting (as I stated in one of my earlier posts). But this isn't supported by many *players*. You can put it on the disc, but good luck finding a standalone player that'll do it. Software players probably would support it, but most of us here are interested in playing our discs on TV, aren't we?...

Most of what you've previously said about SVCD is correct. Generally 35 mins. However, SVCD can also use variable bitrate, so you might get more mins on the disc because of it.

I'm not sure what you mean by entrypoints and chapters. For VCD they're often used to describe the same thing. Some people make their chapters by cutting up their movie so that they have several files, then they stick them on the disc and call them (incorrectly) chapters. Entrypoints are just "markers" that the VCD player is aware of and when you hit Prev/Next, it does a lookup in an entrypoint list, gets the timecode, and then moves the current playback position to that point. There's no interruption.

Yes, you can add normal files to a VCD (or SVCD). The disc is split into two sections, and the first section (track 1) is an ISO 9660 format structure, which means you can put any files you want on the disc - just don't use the same filenames as the reserved VCD filenames already on the disc (like ENTRY.VCD and so on).

What are you trying to make anyways - VCD or SVCD? There are some important differences.

[vitualis]

Is there a way to make a menu in which you can select options using the arrows on your controller/remote control?

The answer is that you cannot. You cannot reference the "arrow" keys on a DVD player remote onto a SVCD or a VCD.

The only keys that a able to be referenced for user interaction on a VCD are: "previous", "next", "return", "default", and numbers 1 to 99.

The "default" key is often referenced as the "play" button on a DVD remote.

As someone mentioned above, you can make a "dummy" system by using multiple menu screens differing by a button "highlight" that is activated with the "default" key (often mapped as "play"). To navigate the different screens, you can use the "next" and "prev" buttons but there will be no equivalent for down and up.

Hotspots are not supported in just about every hardware player out there (except for CD-i) players.

Ideally, I would like to put the VCD in my DVD player or Dreamcast (using VCD playing software), have the main menu pop up, and be able to select which one of the three episodes I want to watch, or select the chapter I want to jump to, using the remote control arrows (having the selections highlight onscreen as a DVD menu does).

As above. The menu can be done. If you author it cleverly you can sort of do this (you just can't use the arrow buttons).

Is this what people mean when they say motion-menus?

This means using a video clip as the background to a menu. If you author it in a clever way, you can do also sorts of things.

What programs and/or methods can be used to attain such results?

VideoPack 5 (expensive)
VCD Imager +/- a GUI (e.g., VCD Easy or TSCV): open source and free!

TSCV is now quite advanced and VCD Easy can now encode real MPEG stills.

For information on how VCDImager works (the guts behind the above two GUIs) and how VCDs work in general (and the limitations), try: http://www.vcdimager.org/guides

Regards.

[Lady Tatjahna]

To marsmayhem :

I am using the version 5 ... Got alot of problems making the emulator to work under Win XP, but with the patches now it works fine...

I simply loves it, comparatively to the menus (yark!) of Neros

I just got problems burning vcd to cd with cd copier as I told in my today's question in that forum, hoping someone will help!

Cya and have good times with VCDs and programming (like me!)

[KingJohn]

Well I'm lost with these comments, Just because "you" cannot do these BASIC things on your DVD, does not mean that e"veryone else" cannot.

When I place a menu VCD into my player the first item is highlighted, using the arrow keys I can move to the next item which then becomes highlighted, and so on. I could also press the number keys to jump to any of the items. pressing ENTER or play to play that section.

Sorry but I suggest you get a Sony DVD NS-400, nothing special but it sounds like it can do things yours can't

[marsmayhem]

You stick the disc in and it shows you track 1 track 2 track 3 in a list? If so, that's not the menu we're talking about - you are talking about the internal listing your DVD player presents to you when you stick the VCD in it. My DVD player will also present a list of tracks, but a VCD menu is something totally different.

[marsmayhem]

Lady Tatjahna,

I haven't gotten around to installing VP5 yet. The patch you refer to is the VP XP Migration Wizard that Roxio has on their website?

I read a review on someone's website that said the UI was pretty, but you had to get the mouse movements just right or it wouldn't work nicely. Any truth to that?

I wonder how it compares to DVD Workshop...

The extended editor in WinOnCD 3.8 wasn't too bad.

[Lady Tatjahna]

Hi marsmayhem..

Yes I'm talking about the migration wizard, but there is a special way and another patch to add ( the universal drivers ) to make newer cd and dvd compatible with the emulator and VP5 .... I have looked the version of WinOnCd 3.8 and I noticed that in this proggy there may be only one 2 levels of menus-videos...

MENU 1
| |_ Video1
| |_ Video2
|
MENU 2
|_ Video1
|_ Video2

In VP5 I dunno the capabilities but I was able to make this tree :

MAIN MENU
|_ SUB MENU 1
| |_ Video 1
| |_ Video 2
|_ SUB MENU 2
|_ Video 1
|_ Video 2
Well this kind of menu above, wasn't possible in WinOnCD .. maybe I'm wrong, I missed something I don't know in WinOnCd ... but I like it's habilities for the price Another difference, is that VideoPack can not just make still images from videos, but it has the ability of include a preview of the video, like some dvd menus.. But... does it really worth the price ? VideoPack is 500$ US, and WinOnCd 3.8 is about 60 € (50-60$ US ?) ... You are right, the mouse manipulation should need a little review ... In the 2 programs, since they got almost the same interface, when you create some text on menus, you cannot decide yourself the size of the font ... It's only by resizing the text area that your font will be bigger or smaller... it really sucks some times... but I really like what I can do with those menus, since it is clear and there is no complicated interface like in TSCV ... probably more stable with more options , but not more friendly for my needs...

I am doing captures of old animes series of my childhood and put them on VCDs, till the time I will buy a DVD burner... (still don't know what to choose yet to have the most compatible one..)

Hopes my informations will help....

Oh and I forgot something.... Roxio have lots of problems giving technical support on the forums, since they are afraid you got the VideoPack illegally Why they don't offer a demo of their good product ? Really don't understand.

Ciao!

[Lady Tatjahna]

Oops,

I made a mistake in my last post... I am not using the 3.8 version of WinOnCd, but the 5.0 Power Edition (deutch) ...

Sorry guys!

[DeVante]

What are you trying to make anyways - VCD or SVCD? There are some important differences.

I'll tell you exactly what I'm trying to do. I just want to get as much information as possible before attempting my first VCD.

I have about 40 episodes of a show called Sifl & Olly. Each one is a (about) 200meg mpeg.

I also have an episode guide which I created that is a simple text file.

I want to put 3 episodes per VCD (well, actually more, but then you get down to changing bitrates and quality and stuff, so that's out for this beginner for now). I also want to make chapters within all three episodes.

Lastly, I want to be able to view the episode guide from the VCD.

Here is the VCD structure I would like to have;

Main Menu -> episode selection menu -> play selected episode
| |
| |-> chapter selection menu -> select episode -> start at selected chapter
|
|-> episode guide (and possibly -> start at selected chapter within guide)


Seems like too much?

There are five things I am unsure of as of now.
1) How to make the episode guide viewable from the VCD.
2) Since there will be 3 seperate episodes per VCD, will they all play in a row, or will one play, and then I have to select then next one?
3) What is the maximum menu depth?
4) I now know that selecting options on menus is possible using prev/next and not the arrows, but will the options highlight?
5) Each episode has quite a few chapters. If I use stills on my chapter selection menus, they won't all fit on one screen. Is it possible to page through the chapter selection screens?

Thanks for your help, by the way. It's been a lot easier than weeding through the posts and guides. Don't get me wrong, reading those have been a great asset, of course, but instant answers and someone who is willing to help is a greater one.

So thanks!

[marsmayhem]

Thanks Lady Tatjahna. I hear that most DVD packages support the Pioneer A03 ($399) without any problems. I'm not ready for that kind of action just yet myself, at least not until I get a DV camcorder

[Lady Tatjahna]

Your're right, but really, after having passed a long time making only 3 episodes of 20 minutes on VCDs, I really hope making 22 episodes on one DVD, believe me!! I really hope that there is no confusion anywhere, that I will be able to make kinda VCDs MPEG-1 on DVD Media and they will be treated as DVD .... Right ? If anyone can confirm, I will sleep very well this night!

[marsmayhem]

Seems like too much?

There are five things I am unsure of as of now.
1) How to make the episode guide viewable from the VCD.
2) Since there will be 3 seperate episodes per VCD, will they all play in a row, or will one play, and then I have to select then next one?
3) What is the maximum menu depth?
4) I now know that selecting options on menus is possible using prev/next and not the arrows, but will the options highlight?
5) Each episode has quite a few chapters. If I use stills on my chapter selection menus, they won't all fit on one screen. Is it possible to page through the chapter selection screens?

No, it isn't too much for the VCD to handle, not from what the VCD spec supports anyways. You might get different mileage from applications out there that don't give you access to multilevel menus and whatnot, but that's just the silly app's fault, not VCD.

1. You're going to have to create an MPEG still for this one. Create a picture that contains the text you want to display on screen, then encode it (see VCDEasy 1.08) and add to your disc presentation as a still.

2. This is up to you. VCD gives you the flexibility of telling it what to do with the clips in your disc. You can do either of what you're asking, or even both if you so wished.

3. Difficult to answer straight out - you could put more than a hundred menu screens, but you can also link them any which way you choose. You shouldn't have a problem with the number of menu screens. You're only restricted by the number of menu screens that can fit on the special area of the disc (track 1). Technically, it has a finite limit of sectors that it can set aside for stuff like menus (which are called segments).

4. No. Not unless you fake them using screens that show each option hilited.

5. Yes. Create the scene selection screens and have your Next/Prev buttons flip between them.

You're welcome. Happy to set the record straight, unlike some people that can't seem to read properly and answer long questions with one-liners and get all weird about their "fancy" DVD players...

[DeVante]

You're welcome. Happy to set the record straight, unlike some people that can't seem to read properly and answer long questions with one-liners and get all weird about their "fancy" DVD players... :wink:

Well, today I actually sat down with TSCV and found out pretty much everything I need to know.

I know now that I can fake menu highlighting by using different stills.
I can do pretty much everything I've wanted to do.

The only thing I don't know is how fast menus pop up on a real VCD player, since I haven't burned my VCD yet. The VCD preview mode in TSCV loads the menus with a pause inbetween, so "fake" highlighting doesn't look like the real thing.

Of course it may be different once I burn it and put it in my DVD player.

Thanks for all the help!