Can I add a 16:9 display flag into videos (.avi, .mpeg, etc)

[denghz]

Hello guys

As I have raised in another thread https://forum.videohelp.com/topic333433.html, I got problems in rendering true 16:9 widescreen video from original footage shot using my Sony DCR-HC94E PAL. It seems that someone else has got exactly the same problem with a PAL machine (as replied in that thread).

My problem is:
1. The original .avi file firewired from the MiniDV tape can't be played back in the correct 16:9 aspect ratio in WMP. Video looks horizontally squeezed...on both of my laptops.

2. Mpeg file rendered using Sony Vegas 7.0 can't be played back in 16:9 format in WMP, either. However it plays fine in another "customised-universal-format" video player.

3. I could only render proper 16:9 .wmv video using WMM. I could never render .wmv in 16:9 AR in Sony Vegas 7.0.

There seems to be no easy way to get rid of this irritating problem. So I am wondering if there is any easy-to-use software by which I could "attach" a 16:9 DISPLAY FLAG to the video so that I can force WMP to play video in proper 16:9 widescreen format.

My idea may sound stupid but I seriously need to solve this problem. Any comments will be appreciated.

[redwudz]

This is about the only possibility I have seen: 'In WMP go to Tools->Options->Performance->Advanced and see if "Enable full-screen mode switch" is checked. If it is uncheck it and see if that helps.'

You said other players display the video properly, such a VLC, KMPlayer or MPC?

Someone else may know of a flag you can set, but then WMP would also have to honor that.

[jagabo]

WMP 10 on my computer will use the right DAR when playing VOB files (but not MPG files). Also with Divx/Xvid AVI files if the DAR is specified within the file.

[guns1inger]

WMP is a very poor player at the best of times, but it's handling of 16:9 material in mpeg or avi is very hit and miss. I second Redwudz' suggestion of finding a better player.

I have no problems rendering 16:9 material from Vegas, so I think your problem is again WMP. WMP also does not play back the programme streams I grab from local digital broadcasts in 16:9, even though everything else does, and the streams are clearly flagged as 16:9.

[denghz]

To redwudz

Like you guessed I am using MPC, which plays most formats available on the market. But Vegas is supposed to render 16:9 AR .wmv files that is playable in WMP.

I don't know why....

[AlanHK]

You can change the aspect ratio in an MPEG using Restream.

[martijnhalekor]

I guess I'm the other guy from that thread who has the same problem. Shouldn't Vegas be able to render proper 16:9 dv avi files if the source and all possible settings are 16:9? I have this problem with 4:3 dv avi files as well, I just didn't notice it before (because the difference between 5:4 and 4:3 is not that big)

Opening the rendered file in Gspot tells me the DAR is in fact 16:9, but VLC plays the file in 5:4. How on earth is that possible? I sent someone else the same file, and he had the same problem, so it's not my player that's messed up. Any suggestions? I got not replies in the other thread, which is a pity.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Try running the DV files through our Enosoft DV Processor and use the Embedded Data Processing feature to change the aspect ratio flag in the DV data.

You can also check to see if the original files have the 4:3 or 16:9 flag set. From your description, it sounds like it is set to 4:3. If it is set to 16:9, there isn't much you can do. WMP looks at the aspect ratio in the DV and not the AVI header. WMP10 and 11 have always displayed DV AVI files with the right aspect ratio for me.

If you have any questions about using the software, don't hesitate to ask.

HINT: To make the processing faster, disable the seeking and navigation option (described in the help file).

Oh - and if the above does fix the problem, for future captures from your cam you can use our software to do that and change the flag at the same time.

[jagabo]

Opening the rendered file in Gspot tells me the DAR is in fact 16:9, but VLC plays the file in 5:4. How on earth is that possible?

VLC has settings that let you overide the DAR. Make sure Video -> Aspect Ratio is set to Default.

[martijnhalekor]

Thanks for the replies guys. The problem is that the SAR, PAR and DAR of the exported dv avi files match those of the original dv avi / mpeg-2 files. So I don't see how changing the AR in Enosoft DV Processor would help... Here's what I wrote in the other thread:

It looks like VLC doesn't read the 16:9 DAR flag of the exported file (I know it's there after opening it in Gspot) and it displays the video in it's SAR (= 5:4). The weird thing however, is when opening the original widescreen mpeg-2 or the exported DV avi file in Gspot, it gives me a PAR of 1,422 (~10:7), while the PAR for PAL DV Widescreen is 1,4568. That's weird, isn't it? This is also the case for my captured 4:3 DV avi files. Gspot tells me the PAR is 1,067 (16:15), while the PAR for PAL DV is 1,0926. Could this be the reason why VLC doesn't play back my exported DV avi files in their DAR? If so, how to fix it?

If that's not the reason, what could be?

(yes, the aspect ratio in VLC is set to default)

[jagabo]

It looks like VLC doesn't read the 16:9 DAR flag of the exported file

I don't know about your files, but VLC reads the DAR flag properly on all my MPEG2 files.

(I know it's there after opening it in Gspot) and it displays the video in it's SAR (= 5:4). The weird thing however, is when opening the original widescreen mpeg-2 or the exported DV avi file in Gspot, it gives me a PAR of 1,422 (~10:7), while the PAR for PAL DV Widescreen is 1,4568. That's weird, isn't it?

Not really. It's the difference between whether 16:9 the picture is encoded in a 704x576 portion of the 720x576 frame, or the full 720x576 frame. I'm not sure about PAL but NTSC MPEG for DVD should have the 4:3 or 16:9 picture in the middle 704x480 pixels with 8 pixels of padding at the right and left.

[martijnhalekor]

Thanks for explaining the difference in PARs So that's not it then...

I don't know about your files, but VLC reads the DAR flag properly on all my MPEG2 files.

Yes, my original files play back fine in VLC. It only happens with the DV avi files I rendered with Vegas. Which is my preferred container format and compression method (because it's lossless), when I want to burn it on a dvd or compress/deinterlace in Virtualdub.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Can you upload to a server a short (e.g., 0.5sec) sample of the DV AVI files rendered by Vegas? Also, a similar length sample of the original DV AVI (i.e., as captured) would be useful.

I'd be happy to take a look at all the DV data and see if Vegas is setting something incorrectly.

[martijnhalekor]

Sure! That's very kind of you. I just shot 3 clips of my cat outside, with both my JVC GR-D23 and my Sony HDR-SR7 cam, all in SD. I didn't render the audio.

JVC cam:
http://circuspla.net/temp/jvc_original43.avi (captured over FireWire with WMM with the DV avi template)
http://circuspla.net/temp/jvc_dvrender43.avi (imported and rendered with Vegas 7.0e with the PAL DV template)

Sony cam:
http://circuspla.net/temp/sony_original43.mpg (shot in 4:3 mode)
http://circuspla.net/temp/sony_dvrender43.avi (rendered with Vegas with the PAL DV template)

http://circuspla.net/temp/sony_original169.mpg (shot in 16:9 mode)
http://circuspla.net/temp/sony_dvrender169.avi (rendered with Vegas with the PAL DV Widescreen template)

Have fun

[jagabo]

I took a look at your 16:9 DV AVI file. I didn't seen anything in the AVI or ODML headers that would indicate the DAR. This must mean the the DAR is encoded within the private DV data.

I tried playing the file with mplayer2.exe (Windows Media Player 6.4), MPC, VLC, KMPlayer, and Windows Media Player 10. Only WMP 10 played it with 16:9 DAR.

Do you have any 16:9 DV AVI files that VLC plays with the correct DAR?

[JohnnyMalaria]

Hi Martijn,

I've looked at the two Sony_dvrender files. According to our software, each file contains the correct aspect ratio flag - i.e., the 16:9 is flagged as 16:9. So, as far as the DV is concerned, Vegas is doing the right thing.

Playing the two clips in WMP 11 (on Vista) also works correctly, i.e., it displays the 16:9 clip with that aspect ratio. As I mentioned before, WMP 11 (and 10, I think), looks at the DV data to get the aspect ratio.

If you use a different player (e.g., GraphEdit), both clips play with the same 4:3 ratio.

[martijnhalekor]

Allright, thanks a lot for those explanations! I still need to let it work out in my brain, but... how come VLC plays the files in 5:4 and not in 4:3 like GraphEdit? And more importantly, how can I fix it, so all (or at least the most important ones) players will play my file in it's correct DAR (16:9 or 4:3)? Will this problem affect playback on my tv when burned on a dvd?

Thanks a lot for your help so far, this forum is really the place to be if you're stuck with something

[jagabo]

how come VLC plays the files in 5:4 and not in 4:3 like GraphEdit?

In the absence of any DAR information that VLC understands it assumes square pixels. 720x576 = 5:4. GraphEdit plays it 5:4 on my computer.

And more importantly, how can I fix it, so all (or at least the most important ones) players will play my file in it's correct DAR (16:9 or 4:3)? Will this problem affect playback on my tv when burned on a dvd?

I don't know of a fix for media players (other than manually overiding the DAR during playback, or converting to another codec), but if your editor/encoder doesn't identify the DAR of the DV source file you can just override it. Then convert to 16:9 MPEG2 for DVD and author.

[JohnnyMalaria]

GraphEdit plays it 5:4 on my computer.

Sorry - I should have said 5:4 - i.e., a PAR of 1:1. I was wearing my NTSC hat instead of PAL!

The video renderer in GraphEdit merely presents whatever it is given at a PAR of 1:1 unless, of course, the window dimensions are change programmatically (for the windowed renderer, not the full screen one).

WMP 10 and WMP 11 are savvy enough to change the aspect ratio to make the video appear correctly - both NTSC and PAL have a 4:3 display size (or 16:9 for widescreen, of course).

It would be possible to change any DirectShow-based media players to detect the aspect ratio in a DV file but only by writing a replacement renderer filter to do the job. Not much fun!

[johnve]

I am also looking for a way to change the DAR in a DV AVI file that is showing up as 4:3. I tried Enosoft DV Processor and it locks up on multiple systems.

My original is from a Canon ZR-850 camera. I am filtering it with VirtualDub and creating a DV AVI file. The resulting file is 4:3 and I want it to be 16:9.

Thanks for all pointers!

John

[minidv2dvd]

ntsc DVavi can only be 720x480. there is a flag in the file if it's 16/9. not all players read the flag. you are better off converting to a square pixel format like mpeg-4 at 864x480 for widescreen viewing.

[johnve]

Thanks. The file is for editing not for viewing. I am using Windows Moviemaker

[johns0]

With media player classic choose view/video frame/override aspect ratio/16:9,i get the same problem playing 720x480 mkv and thats the only way i can play them in the proper view,when burnt as avchd they play properly on my sony.

[taigi]

Using Enosoft DV Processor to change AR flag of some DV footage. Here are two types of Aspect Ratio Signal to use: IEC and ETS. Both of them suggest to use the AR I need. Which one is useful? It looks like "modern" name for Aspect Ratio Signal is flags. Thanks. Directing my question to JohnnyMalaria from the year 2006 mainly. Great software Enosoft DV Processor is.

Try running the DV files through our Enosoft DV Processor and use the Embedded Data Processing feature to change the aspect ratio flag in the DV data.

You can also check to see if the original files have the 4:3 or 16:9 flag set. From your description, it sounds like it is set to 4:3. If it is set to 16:9, there isn't much you can do. WMP looks at the aspect ratio in the DV and not the AVI header. WMP10 and 11 have always displayed DV AVI files with the right aspect ratio for me.

If you have any questions about using the software, don't hesitate to ask.

HINT: To make the processing faster, disable the seeking and navigation option (described in the help file).

Oh - and if the above does fix the problem, for future captures from your cam you can use our software to do that and change the flag at the same time.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Wow! Amazed to see this pop up in my email!

I would change both.

I'm glad you are finding the software useful so many years later.

John.

[taigi]

Ouch. Apparently, Enosoft DV Processor stops and does nothing. Sorry about that. That was reported by user "johnve" earlier in this forum too. Can anybody help in suggesting software that can change Aspect Ratio flag(s) (signal(s) of DV footage in .avi container WITHOUT rewriting all the file? MPEG4Modifier does this for .mp4 only and I don't want to rewrite whole file from .avi to .mp4.

[hello_hello]

Ouch. Apparently, Enosoft DV Processor stops and does nothing. Sorry about that. That was reported by user "johnve" earlier in this forum too. Can anybody help in suggesting software that can change Aspect Ratio flag(s) (signal(s) of DV footage in .avi container WITHOUT rewriting all the file? MPEG4Modifier does this for .mp4 only and I don't want to rewrite whole file from .avi to .mp4.

I'm just being pedantic....

MPEG4Modifier supports AVI, but not DV video. Only mpeg4.

[taigi]

good point hello_hello, thank you. I was thinking about possibility to convert .avi to .mpg but that would be yet another conversion and I do not want to risk quality of my video.
So, I'm still looking for a software that can change Aspect Ratio flag(s) (signal(s) of DV footage in .avi container