So, I have an MP4 that I am trying to move into Adobe Encore CS6 for authoring to blu-ray. I am transcoding in Premiere before moving to Encore because Encore is so much slower.
So when transcoding, I am using the settings closest to the source video but when I come to frame rate, I have an issue. Premiere is giving the auto setting (or at least is shows it will) make the video into 59.94 FPS The original frame rate is 29.97 FPS.
Should I let Premiere choose the appropriate setting, or choose from the 23.97, 24, or 59.94 FPS options it is giving me???? What will be the consequences of each setting?
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Last edited by yearofthespider2k3; 9th Feb 2018 at 21:17.
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Why ? You would have to encode it again in Premiere to export back to Encore anyways (or dynamic link to Encore and Encore will encode it again) , but either way you lose quality twice . It's avoidable quality loss and actually slower
So when transcoding, I am using the settings closest to the source video but when I come to frame rate, I have an issue. Premiere is giving the auto setting (or at least is shows it will) make the video into 59.94 FPS The original frame rate is 29.97 FPS.
Should I let Premiere choose the appropriate setting, or choose from the 23.97, 24, or 59.94 FPS options it is giving me???? What will be the consequences of each setting?
What was your original source ? 1280x720p29.97 ?
Strictly speaking, 29.97p is not compliant for BD. At any dimension. So usually either frames are duplicated for 1280x720p59.94 , or it's encoded and/or flagged as interlaced if you had 1920x1080p29.97 content . (There is another fancy of authoring 1280x720p29.97 with a repeat frame flag so it "looks" like 59.94 for compatibility but you only encode 1/2 the frames, thus higher quality at a given bitrate, but Encore doesn't support it)
If frame blending off this will duplicate frames to make up the 59.94. That is preferred. If you forget and have frame blending on, it will add a blended frame between each original frame. This is usually unwanted because it will look "strobey" with the ghosted frame in between
23.976 and 24 are not evenly divisible into your original 29.97 so it will be choppy motion (dropped frames) , so don't use those -
Sorry! I made an edit to the original post. I meant starting with video in Premiere and moving to Encore after transcode.
The original video is 1280x720. So I should turn off frame blending and tell it to work up to 59.94 -
Excellent. That appeared to work. Video looks fine to me now. However, I'd like your take on the audio being out of sync.... what do you use to correct that, OR did I do something wrong to make that happen? It makes sense to me that the audio would be a little screwy since we basically added in more frames....
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You added in more frames AND changed the framerate. E.g. 1sec = 30 frames at 30fps. Duplicating each frame and then doubling the framerate is 60frames at 60fps = 1 sec.*
Therefore, if you did it right, should be exactly the same length. And, If done right, audio should not be out of sync unless it already had previously been out of sync.
Scott
*Used non-fractional framerates for easier math in example. -
So, I've been doing some reading and I think handbrake might be the best solution for this. If not, I wouldn't mind being redirected. I literally checked off EXACTLY what @poisondeathray said. It came up all crazy. So, what I am wondering is if the original video might have had a "variable frame rate" that would have caused the sync error? I do know that Encore and Premier are both a little silly and to some extent "buggy" and I wonder if the programs inadequacies may have contributed to that or if indeed there are other settings I need to look at....
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Unlikely...
If not, I wouldn't mind being redirected. I literally checked off EXACTLY what @poisondeathray said. It came up all crazy. So, what I am wondering is if the original video might have had a "variable frame rate" that would have caused the sync error? I do know that Encore and Premier are both a little silly and to some extent "buggy" and I wonder if the programs inadequacies may have contributed to that or if indeed there are other settings I need to look at.... -
General
Complete name : C:\Users\CALZAGHE\2008-04-19 - Joe Calzaghe vs. Bernard Hopkins.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 2.00 GiB
Duration : 1h 39mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 2 881 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2017-09-14 17:43:08
Tagged date : UTC 2017-09-14 17:43:08
gsst : 0
gstd : 5968920
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=60
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1h 39mn
Bit rate : 2 687 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 490 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.097
Stream size : 1.87 GiB (93%)
Tagged date : UTC 2017-09-14 17:44:03
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Color range : Limited
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 1h 39mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 202 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 137 MiB (7%)
Title : IsoMedia File Produced by Google, 5-11-2011
Encoded date : UTC 2017-09-14 17:43:45
Tagged date : UTC 2017-09-14 17:44:03 -
That looks ok in terms of constant frame rate.
Is there a sync issue in a media player ? (e.g. mpchc, potplayer, vlc,,,)
Is there a sync issue in premiere pro preview ?
Or is there a sync issue only after you encode it with premiere ?
What type of sync issues ? Describe the sync problem . -
The audio is fine in the original file. No problems from beginning to end. After the transcode, from mp4 to h.264 59.95, the problem is found.
The audio appears to be slightly off from the get go and the problem continues until at the near end, I would say the audio is about 3.5 to maximum of 4 seconds earlier than the picture.
The sync issue is showing in premiere preview. -
If it's a constant delay issue, you can shift the audio. But that is a massive sync issue
The audio has to be re-encoded too at some point, because AAC is incompatible with BD
The sync issue is showing in premiere preview.
After the transcode, from mp4 to h.264 59.95, the problem is found.
How are you determining if it's in sync afterwards ? Many programs cannot play elementary files
What happens when you import the elementary video and re-encoded audio into an encore timeline ? Check there -
The audio is in WAV format after transcode with Premiere. It is a progressive issue.
The original file is fine and after the encode is when the problem appears.
That was a typo. It is 59.94 and NOT 59.95. So I take the newly encoded files back to Premiere and the preview there shows the progressive sync issue.
I tried what you said above and put the video and audio into encore timeline and shows to be out of sync there as well. As far as how I am determining the sync issue, I'm just using premiere and Encore.
I have a thought, perhaps this might help..... What if I mux the audio and video together and see if that works? It occurred to me that there could be something that is causing the issue when I have two separate streams. -
Authoring programs actually prefer elementary (separate) streams. If you import both in a single container, they have to demux then remux as part of the process anyways
If you import both elementary streams into Encore, and it's out of sync there (there will be a stream length mismatch if there is a progressive sync issue), then obviously there is a problem with the conversion by PP
Did you let Encore try doing everything ?
Otherwise you can use external tools like x264, ffmpeg etc... -
Ok. Man, I really appreciate your help. Maybe someday, with some perseverance and dedication I can be as helpful to someone as you've been to me. The issue being in PP is my final answer as well.
So, what I am doing now is using video re-do (my favorite program of all time!) to bump the frame-rate to 59.94 and encoding as h.264 mp4. That should get it close enough so that the video will work in encore without the audio issue. I will update after that and let you know how it goes... -
OK.... anyone ready for the fix???? Premiere has a bug with MP4. For some reason, when you give the file the extension .mov instead of MP4 it clears it up. Obviously with video-redo, it still didn't work so I went back to drawing board.
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What happens if just drag the MP4 directly into an Encore timeline? or let Encore just do everything automatically ?
Are you using older version of PP ? What version ? Newer versions have no problems with MP4 . If you're using a very old version I would consider using other tools
Or another possibility is a glitch in your MP4 . It might playback ok (seek recovery in media player, or error correction) , but when encoding there might be a large enough discontinunity to cause the problem -
I don't use Encore anymore, but I doubt the workflow would be much different. For 29.97p sources, I make sure to resize if needed to 1280x720 then double the frame rate to 59.94p. I don't really like the false flag method. I am not sure why you are using PP unless you are doing a bunch of edits. Otherwise, an Avisynth workflow with the x264 cli using one of the BD compliant scripts (just search the web) should work flawlessly. And if you don't need to resize you shouldn't even need Avisynth. But then again using the MainConcept encoder bundled in AME is probably an acceptable solution as well.
BDAV authoring isn't hard, but there are enough questions on this site that someone should post a guide and make it a sticky.
And to echo pdr, yes, you should encode the video and audio separately.
Finally, if Encore flags either the audio or video needing to be encoded, you did something wrong. As a rule, you should not let the authoring program encode the video or audio.
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