Capturing 16:9 WIDESCREEN w/ADVC 100 & iMovie 6 HD without lettterbox?

[usually_quiet]

The only difference between what DB83 mentions is that the ADVC 100 does not have the dip switch settings for 16:9 that the ADVC 300 does. The ADVC 300 is no longer manufactured and on the used marked costs anywhere from $250-$500. With that box (I'm told) converting to 16:9 SD is a non-issue.

The DVR is still sending a 4:3 letter boxed picture rather than anamorphic 16:9 picture. The ADVC 300 cannot fix that. All it can do is set a flag that will cause the 4:3 letter boxed picture to be displayed at 16:9 AR by devices/software that check the flag.

[MrRGB]

@ MrRGB
Set "TV Type" to "16:9". That will output anamorphic SD.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Setup#TV_Type

That is actually the default setting for my Motorola -- and at that setting it outputs 16:9 SD letterboxed…there may be another switch I have to flip in conjunction with that to make it UN-letterboxed, but haven't found it yet

[MrRGB]

The only difference between what DB83 mentions is that the ADVC 100 does not have the dip switch settings for 16:9 that the ADVC 300 does. The ADVC 300 is no longer manufactured and on the used marked costs anywhere from $250-$500. With that box (I'm told) converting to 16:9 SD is a non-issue.

The DVR is still sending a 4:3 letter boxed picture rather than anamorphic 16:9 picture. The ADVC 300 cannot fix that. All it can do is set a flag that will cause the 4:3 letter boxed picture to be displayed at 16:9 AR by devices/software that check the flag.

Would love to find a hack or work-around for the ADVC 100 that does the same. This is grueling trying to find the right setting for the DVR, ADVC 100, iMovie 6 in order to do something I thought would be very straightforward.

I wish I could find someone who has done this and can provide a step by step solution-- I've tried just about everything suggested here (other than buying a convertor) without success. I'm convinced it's a simple fix once it's found!

[jagabo]

The only difference between what DB83 mentions is that the ADVC 100 does not have the dip switch settings for 16:9 that the ADVC 300 does. The ADVC 300 is no longer manufactured and on the used marked costs anywhere from $250-$500. With that box (I'm told) converting to 16:9 SD is a non-issue.

The DVR is still sending a 4:3 letter boxed picture rather than anamorphic 16:9 picture. The ADVC 300 cannot fix that. All it can do is set a flag that will cause the 4:3 letter boxed picture to be displayed at 16:9 AR by devices/software that check the flag.

Would love to find a hack or work-around for the ADVC 100 that does the same.

That will not work. It only flags the video as 16:9, it doesn't convert it to 16:9. Players will then stretch the 4:3 frame to 16:9 and you will end up with a letterboxed 64:27 picture.

You can simulate this by telling your editor you source is 16:9 DAR rather than 4:3 DAR. You will not be happy with the result.

[MrRGB]

For the time being, until I can find a better solution, I've found that cropping the captured footage in MPEG Streamclip gives me the desired 16:9 aspect ratio in SD:

http://nycpostop.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/turn-your-letterboxed-43-files-into-169/

[MrRGB]

Addendum:
For experimenting, I purchased this ViewHD HDMI-to-Composite convertor box on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DSSCBZ8/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_ynuDub0250F8P

Pricier than most, but better reviews. Just tried it out today and it works like a charm! HDMI out of the DVR into the View HD, View HD composite out into the ADVC 100 - Voila! Instant 16:9 SD into iMovie 6 HD. Small amount of black top & bottom of pic, but much better resolution than the 4:3 letterboxed cropped in MPEG Streamclip.

FYI: The View HD is all-metal construction, dimensions are about 2 1/2" x 2 3/4" x 3/4" comes with a USB cable and is also NTSC/PAL compatible

[jagabo]

Yes, anamorphic output gives better resolution than letterboxed. That's why Hollywood and cable/satellite companies don't want you to have it.

[usually_quiet]

Hollywood doesn't want anyone recording a letter boxed picture either. I see the lack of anamorphic output on most set-top boxes is more of a cost cutting issue and support issue. Fewer display options means a set-top box that costs less, and fewer calls from customers.

[jagabo]

I see the lack of anamorphic output on most set-top boxes is more of a cost cutting issue and support issue. Fewer display options means a set-top box that costs less, and fewer calls from customers.

I see it as a confluence of motivations. It may lead to less support, but they also want you to rent their DVR rather than recording your own shows in a "good enough" format.

[usually_quiet]

I see the lack of anamorphic output on most set-top boxes is more of a cost cutting issue and support issue. Fewer display options means a set-top box that costs less, and fewer calls from customers.

I see it as a confluence of motivations. It may lead to less support, but they also want you to rent their DVR rather than recording your own shows in a "good enough" format.

The OP is using a DVR...

[jagabo]

I see the lack of anamorphic output on most set-top boxes is more of a cost cutting issue and support issue. Fewer display options means a set-top box that costs less, and fewer calls from customers.

I see it as a confluence of motivations. It may lead to less support, but they also want you to rent their DVR rather than recording your own shows in a "good enough" format.

The OP is using a DVR...

And they want him to continue using that DVR. And I suspect his cable provider has a few other customers.

[usually_quiet]

I see the lack of anamorphic output on most set-top boxes is more of a cost cutting issue and support issue. Fewer display options means a set-top box that costs less, and fewer calls from customers.

I see it as a confluence of motivations. It may lead to less support, but they also want you to rent their DVR rather than recording your own shows in a "good enough" format.

The OP is using a DVR...

And they want him to continue using that DVR. And I suspect his cable company has other customers.

Don't make me laugh. Anamorphic output or not, he would do that anyway. Those other customers will likely also get a DVR too, if they want to record TV conveniently. Using third-party equipment to time-shift TV from a provider with an encrypted digital delivery system requiring a set-top box is far less convenient, and sometimes more expensive. I've done it with a variety of equipment. I know the score. So should you for that matter.

[hiptune]

Addendum:
For experimenting, I purchased this ViewHD HDMI-to-Composite convertor box on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DSSCBZ8/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_ynuDub0250F8P

Pricier than most, but better reviews. Just tried it out today and it works like a charm! HDMI out of the DVR into the View HD, View HD composite out into the ADVC 100 - Voila! Instant 16:9 SD into iMovie 6 HD. Small amount of black top & bottom of pic, but much better resolution than the 4:3 letterboxed cropped in MPEG Streamclip.
e h
FYI: The View HD is all-metal construction, dimensions are about 2 1/2" x 2 3/4" x 3/4" comes with a USB cable and is also NTSC/PAL compatible

No one here seemed to be jumping for joy at your found solution to the problem. And it is one I have dealt with when making Director and DP reels.

I had this issue using a DVD player's component output to an ADVC - 500 (which has component inputs). This was a certified 16:9 picture being output from that player, but it was not using the HDMI output which might be the required element. Plus you are capturing in HD 16:9, I was attempting to capture in 16:9 SD. I wanted the whole process to be SD and 16:9. This is where I may never have had success.

Anyway, I ordered that View HD box, and will try the HDMI to composite > ADVC-500 > Vegas capture in 16:9 both HD and SD to test is that makes any difference.

Thank you, and sorry nobody congratulated you on your finding a great workaround.

[dellsam34]

This is the most stupid way of capturing HD through HDMI, There are HDMI capture devices if a file transfer is not available from whatever source is (Satellite, cable box ...etc), Converting HD to SD and cramming it through composite in anamorphic is plain nuts, Composite is 4:3 you cannot fit a 16:9 frame without squashing it horizontally.

[jjeff]

Addendum:
For experimenting, I purchased this ViewHD HDMI-to-Composite convertor box on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DSSCBZ8/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_ynuDub0250F8P

Pricier than most, but better reviews. Just tried it out today and it works like a charm! HDMI out of the DVR into the View HD, View HD composite out into the ADVC 100 - Voila! Instant 16:9 SD into iMovie 6 HD. Small amount of black top & bottom of pic, but much better resolution than the 4:3 letterboxed cropped in MPEG Streamclip.
e h
FYI: The View HD is all-metal construction, dimensions are about 2 1/2" x 2 3/4" x 3/4" comes with a USB cable and is also NTSC/PAL compatible

No one here seemed to be jumping for joy at your found solution to the problem. And it is one I have dealt with when making Director and DP reels.

I had this issue using a DVD player's component output to an ADVC - 500 (which has component inputs). This was a certified 16:9 picture being output from that player, but it was not using the HDMI output which might be the required element. Plus you are capturing in HD 16:9, I was attempting to capture in 16:9 SD. I wanted the whole process to be SD and 16:9. This is where I may never have had success.

Anyway, I ordered that View HD box, and will try the HDMI to composite > ADVC-500 > Vegas capture in 16:9 both HD and SD to test is that makes any difference.

Thank you, and sorry nobody congratulated you on your finding a great workaround.

Let us know how it works for you but I've tried MANY such converters and have been disappointed in all. I haven't tried any >$100 but several just slightly less, several with a nice looking metal case. They all, especially the ones with a PAL/NTSC switch don't take into account that HDMI has a 0 IRE black level while SD in N. America is +7.5 IRE. Since all converters I've tried just pass the black level on from HDMI to SD, the picture has incorrect black levels and IMO it's not pretty.
The reason I mentioned the PAL/NTSC thing is because people in PAL land don't have to worry about the whole IRE black level thing as PALs SD black level is 0 IRE, so when converting HDMI to SD you don't have to mess with the black level.

[dellsam34]

If capturing analog video sources that are widescreen in nature such as anamorphic laser discs, game consoles, widescreen encoded tapes, cable and TV boxes that don't have HDMI out, a capture device that is capable of AFD is required, The capture device can carry over the AFD code or create one on the fly if it is not found. Some of the pro capture device such as S&W TBS800 and similar from Gras Valley, Ensemble Designs and Aja are AFD ready, enabling integration of SMPTE 2016 into the workflow, so they can keep the code, add the code or remove it for SDI digital output.

As of the date of the creation of this thread this standard hasn't been finalized yet, so this may be something to look for from now on if 16:9 analog material are to be captured.

Here is more about SMPTE 2016 (AFD):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Format_Description

From the TBS800 control menu:

[usually_quiet]

Addendum:
For experimenting, I purchased this ViewHD HDMI-to-Composite convertor box on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DSSCBZ8/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_ynuDub0250F8P

Pricier than most, but better reviews. Just tried it out today and it works like a charm! HDMI out of the DVR into the View HD, View HD composite out into the ADVC 100 - Voila! Instant 16:9 SD into iMovie 6 HD. Small amount of black top & bottom of pic, but much better resolution than the 4:3 letterboxed cropped in MPEG Streamclip.
e h
FYI: The View HD is all-metal construction, dimensions are about 2 1/2" x 2 3/4" x 3/4" comes with a USB cable and is also NTSC/PAL compatible

No one here seemed to be jumping for joy at your found solution to the problem. And it is one I have dealt with when making Director and DP reels.

I had this issue using a DVD player's component output to an ADVC - 500 (which has component inputs). This was a certified 16:9 picture being output from that player, but it was not using the HDMI output which might be the required element. Plus you are capturing in HD 16:9, I was attempting to capture in 16:9 SD. I wanted the whole process to be SD and 16:9. This is where I may never have had success.

Anyway, I ordered that View HD box, and will try the HDMI to composite > ADVC-500 > Vegas capture in 16:9 both HD and SD to test is that makes any difference.

Thank you, and sorry nobody congratulated you on your finding a great workaround.

Why are you digging up a 7-year-old thread to complain to MrRGB about nobody here offering congratulations back then? MrRGB hasn't even posted here since 2016. Anyway as has been pointed out, HDMI to composite converters have their drawbacks. Using an HDMI splitter with the ability to strip HDCP plus a good HDMI capture device would probably produce better results.

[Edit]Even better, if you are playing a DVD and capturing the DVD player's output, simply rip the DVD. It is much faster and there is no quality loss.

[hiptune]

Addendum:
For experimenting, I purchased this ViewHD HDMI-to-Composite convertor box on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DSSCBZ8/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_ynuDub0250F8P

Pricier than most, but better reviews. Just tried it out today and it works like a charm! HDMI out of the DVR into the View HD, View HD composite out into the ADVC 100 - Voila! Instant 16:9 SD into iMovie 6 HD. Small amount of black top & bottom of pic, but much better resolution than the 4:3 letterboxed cropped in MPEG Streamclip.
e h
FYI: The View HD is all-metal construction, dimensions are about 2 1/2" x 2 3/4" x 3/4" comes with a USB cable and is also NTSC/PAL compatible

No one here seemed to be jumping for joy at your found solution to the problem. And it is one I have dealt with when making Director and DP reels.

I had this issue using a DVD player's component output to an ADVC - 500 (which has component inputs). This was a certified 16:9 picture being output from that player, but it was not using the HDMI output which might be the required element. Plus you are capturing in HD 16:9, I was attempting to capture in 16:9 SD. I wanted the whole process to be SD and 16:9. This is where I may never have had success.

Anyway, I ordered that View HD box, and will try the HDMI to composite > ADVC-500 > Vegas capture in 16:9 both HD and SD to test is that makes any difference.

Thank you, and sorry nobody congratulated you on your finding a great workaround.

Why are you digging up a 7-year-old thread to complain to MrRGB about nobody here offering congratulations back then? MrRGB hasn't even posted here since 2016. Anyway as has been pointed out, HDMI to composite converters have their drawbacks. Using an HDMI splitter with the ability to strip HDCP plus a good HDMI capture device would probably produce better results.

[Edit]Even better, if you are playing a DVD and capturing the DVD player's output, simply rip the DVD. It is much faster and there is no quality loss.

You have misinterpreted what my post is saying. I am not complaining at all, making a very astute observation. I am offering sincere appreciation and congratulations that he got a workaround without spending more on a $300 to $500 capture device.

I want to output 16:9 SD & captured to 16:9 SD. I don't mind if it has to go through HDMI on a BR player to get there. The fact is it gets there. And if you read up on this topic, many folks are still having problems to this day with this issue.

And I have all the tools to decrypt DVDs, and burn fresh cp free copies. MrRBG (and I) want to edit sections of this material for demo reels (exactly what I needed it for), so complete discs all copied in 16:9 is not want we are after here. We need to be able to edit sections only, and retain 16:9.

[hiptune]

Addendum:
For experimenting, I purchased this ViewHD HDMI-to-Composite convertor box on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DSSCBZ8/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_ynuDub0250F8P

Pricier than most, but better reviews. Just tried it out today and it works like a charm! HDMI out of the DVR into the View HD, View HD composite out into the ADVC 100 - Voila! Instant 16:9 SD into iMovie 6 HD. Small amount of black top & bottom of pic, but much better resolution than the 4:3 letterboxed cropped in MPEG Streamclip.
e h
FYI: The View HD is all-metal construction, dimensions are about 2 1/2" x 2 3/4" x 3/4" comes with a USB cable and is also NTSC/PAL compatible

No one here seemed to be jumping for joy at your found solution to the problem. And it is one I have dealt with when making Director and DP reels.

I had this issue using a DVD player's component output to an ADVC - 500 (which has component inputs). This was a certified 16:9 picture being output from that player, but it was not using the HDMI output which might be the required element. Plus you are capturing in HD 16:9, I was attempting to capture in 16:9 SD. I wanted the whole process to be SD and 16:9. This is where I may never have had success.

Anyway, I ordered that View HD box, and will try the HDMI to composite > ADVC-500 > Vegas capture in 16:9 both HD and SD to test is that makes any difference.

Thank you, and sorry nobody congratulated you on your finding a great workaround.

Let us know how it works for you but I've tried MANY such converters and have been disappointed in all. I haven't tried any >$100 but several just slightly less, several with a nice looking metal case. They all, especially the ones with a PAL/NTSC switch don't take into account that HDMI has a 0 IRE black level while SD in N. America is +7.5 IRE. Since all converters I've tried just pass the black level on from HDMI to SD, the picture has incorrect black levels and IMO it's not pretty.
The reason I mentioned the PAL/NTSC thing is because people in PAL land don't have to worry about the whole IRE black level thing as PALs SD black level is 0 IRE, so when converting HDMI to SD you don't have to mess with the black level.

I will let you know how it turns out. My View HD box just arrived an hour ago. And I am going to capture some things tonight for editing later.

I would expect that black levels would be the easiest thing to correct after capture providing the video quality of the capture is fine enough to begin with.

Btw, I am truly interested in getting a Magewell HD capture card. But I am currently working on a reel that is all 16: SD material. And I really want to know how to get it done with what I have on hand. And see the quality for myself. See if MrRGB's box could do it right.

[hiptune]

This is the most stupid way of capturing HD through HDMI, There are HDMI capture devices if a file transfer is not available from whatever source is (Satellite, cable box ...etc), Converting HD to SD and cramming it through composite in anamorphic is plain nuts, Composite is 4:3 you cannot fit a 16:9 frame without squashing it horizontally.

The OP is not interested in capturing HD through HDMI. He is only concerned with the true 16:9 aspect ration.

QUOTE=MrRGB;2358476]I occasionally like to capture (for my demo reel) commercials & promos I have worked on.
(edit)
Is it more about how you set-up the INPUT (defining the session: DV, DV widescreen, 1080i, 720) or the OUTPUT?
I am not so much concerned about HD quality as much as the 16:9 aspect ratio (if that makes a difference).

Thanks![/QUOTE]

[dellsam34]

Still, capturing anamorphic SD via composite is destructive, It can be captured with the right AR flag in the file using component and editing can be done in a frame acurate software without loosing quality and re-encoding the whole video. But if you prefer other wrong ways then yes there are many.

[Skiller]

To put it simple, if your DVR forces the downconversion of HD to Composite to be letterboxed, you are screwed.
It means the Composite output of the DVR is 4:3 for anything that comes afterwards and the letterboxing has become part of the picture to make the ratio 4:3.

Converting HD to SD and cramming it through composite in anamorphic is plain nuts, Composite is 4:3 you cannot fit a 16:9 frame without squashing it horizontally.

Not quite correct. While I agree it is nuts to do this with an HD source, analog anamorphic SD video – yes even as Composite – is tried and tested in many parts of the world. It is not like you are squeezing the video horizontally more than you would with a letterboxed picture; rather you stretch it vertically to make use of those lines that would be black letterboxes otherwise. So really, all it does is gain vertical resolution, nothing more.

[dellsam34]

That's what the AR code does, I've already explained it above.