No audio on *some* captured MiniDV AVI scenes

[jader201]

I am in the process of capturing all of my old Mini DV tapes to my media server (for the purposes of easy viewing -- will hold onto tapes as archives). However, I'm having an odd issue with audio that has me banging my head against a wall -- hoping you guys can help!

I started with WinDV, basically default configuration, except I changed to type-2 AVI. I let it capture the whole first tape, splitting it into 25 AVI videos. Everything went well, at least it seemed, until I was reviewing all of my AVI files and came across two or three AVI files that had no audio.

These definitely have audio, as I heard it from the camcorder as it was being captured. I tried playing it in Windows Media Player as well as VLC, and both played the video without audio.

I tried taping only a few seconds of the problematic scenes, but still no audio.

I tried type-1 AVI, and these played back with audio. However, my Windows 7 seems to have a whole host of other problems with type-1 AVI:

- Media Player hangs when trying to close it after playing a type-1 AVI
- Explorer hangs when trying to rename/move/delete a type-1 AVI
- Explorer also doesn't show a timestamp or filesize for type-1 AVIs

Basically, it seems to treat it as a corrupt file, and it can't handle it correctly.

So I gave up on type-1, even though it seemed to be the only thing I could get the audio to work.

Then I tried other capturing software. I tried Windows Movie Maker, but it recorded in type-1 (couldn't find a way to change this), as the audio again was there, but so were the other problems above w/ type-1.

Finally, I tried Enosoft DV Processor. I got it set up to capture type-2, but once again, had the same results -- video fine, no audio.

Again, these are just a few select scenes -- about 2-3 of these 25 files. My tests are always with this one particular scene that's about 1.5 minutes in length.

So I tried type-1 again, just to rule it out -- sure enough, same results as before. Audio is fine, but bizarre problems in Windows.

I finally found something that was interesting: if I record in type-2 *without* using DV Processor's "Scene Detection" (basically record everything as one scene/AVI file), and record it starting from the scene right before this one, then the audio for this scene is fine.

*Only* when it is broken from the other scenes is the audio missing. And no matter if it's the full scene, or a piece of the scene in the middle -- if the file doesn't start with some other scene, this particular scene will not have audio.

Also, just to try it out, I did try capturing to Raw DV, and this worked wonderfully -- even with Scene Detection enabled, I was able to get separate .DV files that included audio. Of course, that's not the best format for viewing -- I need a format that most players will play, ideally AVI.

So my questions:

1) Any idea what is causing this, and just for these few scenes on my tape?

2) Am I better off trying to figure out the type-1 issues, or the type-2 issues?

3) What is it about starting with another scene that causes type-2 to work w/ DV Processor, and how can I configure it to "trick" it into doing this with Scene Detection enabled.

Ultimately, I just need to be able to somewhat automate capturing these files, splitting them by scene, with audio intact.

More info about my system:
OS: Windows 7 Pro SP1, 64-bit
Camcorder: Canon Optura Xi
Firewire Card: Rosewill RC-501
Enosoft DV Processor Version: 1.5.4
WinDV Version: 1.2.3
Movie Maker Version: 2012 (build 16.4.3508.0205)

If you need info about any video/audio codecs, let me know.

Thanks!

[smrpix]

This comes up from time to time and it's almost always due to 32khz vs 48khz audio. Both are allowed in the dv spec.

The solution is to change the audio setting on your capture software and recapture the no audio scenes. Sounds like capturing raw DV accomplished the same thing for you'

Depending on your NLE, you may have to convert the wrong audio to the correct one in order to edit the scenes together.

48000 is more commonly used.

[jader201]

Thanks. Best I can tell, according to the audio indicators in Enosoft DV Processor, the input and output are both 48kHz.

Not sure I'm looking at the right thing though, or if those are the right values.

[jader201]

Yeah, the values that show both the input and output audio format always say "48", which according to the documentation, indicates 48khz.

These values on both input and output always show 48, on scenes where the audio works, as well as the scenes with missing audio.

[smrpix]

These values on both input and output always show 48, on scenes where the audio works, as well as the scenes with missing audio.

You may be seeing what enosoft is "expecting" and not necessarily what's actually in the file. If you want to post a small sample of a non-audio file others can take a look.

[jader201]

Sure, I can provide a sample. Should it be raw (DV) or type-2 AVI?

[smrpix]

Sure, I can provide a sample. Should it be raw (DV) or type-2 AVI?

Either is fine.

[jader201]

Ok, it should be attached (sample.avi).

Thanks for your help!

[smrpix]

There is blank audio on that file, but I can confirm that the sample rate is 32khz.

[jader201]

Would it help for me to capture to raw DV and give you a clip of that?

Regarding 32khz, what can I do while capturing type-2 AVI to fix that? And why would this be different for just some scenes vs. the others? I'm almost certain I didn't change any settings in the camcorder between scenes that would have affected this.

[smrpix]

Would it help for me to capture to raw DV and give you a clip of that?

Yes, and do this.

Run the tape down to a scene with "bad" audio.
Stop the tape.
Exit your software.
Restart the software
Play the tape for a few seconds before capturing
capture a small segment.

Hopefully that process will reset your software to recognize that it is dealing with 32khz audio now.

Regarding 32khz, what can I do while capturing type-2 AVI to fix that?

Since you're capturing a raw DV stream, nothing. You want to capture it is-is and convert afterwards.

And why would this be different for just some scenes vs. the others? I'm almost certain I didn't change any settings in the camcorder between scenes that would have affected this.

The key word here is "almost."

[jader201]

Yes, and do this.

Run the tape down to a scene with "bad" audio.
Stop the tape.
Exit your software.
Restart the software
Play the tape for a few seconds before capturing
capture a small segment.

Hopefully that process will reset your software to recognize that it is dealing with 32khz audio now.

Done and attached both. You were right, pre-loading the video seemed to get it to capture the audio w/ type-2. Can you tell if anything else funky is going on based on the raw DV and type-2 w/ audio?

Since you're capturing a raw DV stream, nothing. You want to capture it is-is and convert afterwards.

The key word here is "almost."

Ok, so questions:

1) Is there anything outside of changing my camera settings that could cause this? Or does would this only happen by changing the audio settings between recordings?

2) Is there anything I can do w/ Enosoft DV Processor that would allow me, while capturing and converting to type-2 AVI, to fix this so that I don't have to manually check and pre-load the video (like you suggested above)? I've got a ton of these tapes, and I'm hoping I can get the process as much hands-off as possible.

Thanks again so much for taking the time to help me.

[smrpix]

Okay,

Here's the latest. The two more recent clips are 48khz.

(The original clip which I identified as 32khz I've examined more closely and it appears enosoft TRIED to import at 32khz and failed. The audio on that one is actually shorter than the video.)



Bottom line, some of your clips are 48khz and some are 32.

1) Is there anything outside of changing my camera settings that could cause this? Or does would this only happen by changing the audio settings between recordings?

It's possible a 32khz tape was put in , then one with 48khz and depending on the camera it MAY respond automatically, but basically someone has to have changed the settings manually somewhere along the line. FWIW, my old DV cameras always gave a screen indication of the audio sample rate while recording.

2) Is there anything I can do w/ Enosoft DV Processor that would allow me, while capturing and converting to type-2 AVI, to fix this so that I don't have to manually check and pre-load the video (like you suggested above)? I've got a ton of these tapes, and I'm hoping I can get the process as much hands-off as possible.

I don't believe so. I'm not familiar with all the ins and outs of enosoft DV processor, but I've used it enough to know it's excellent software and probably as sophisticated as you are going to find for DV capture.

If your tapes have continuous timecode you may be able to set up a batch capture based on timecodes you can derive from the clips you have already captured. But given the circumstances, you're very likely to have timecode breaks and timecode resets to 00:00:00:00 which will make that impossible.

Unfortunately, this is a manual 2-pass job.

Thanks again so much for taking the time to help me.

Your welcome. Please post back with any additional questions. And good luck.

[SixFiftyThree]

I say this time and time again. The solution to this problem is to use ScenalyzerLive, it is free and by far the best program for DV capture. It handles sample rate changes flawlessly, with the option of splitting the file on change.

Enosoft is good for its features (proc amp etc.), as is WinDV for its simplicity, but they are both best used for analog > DV conversion rather than straight DV capture, which isn't always as simple as it seems.

Also don't use Type 1. It's only benefit was supposedly better capture performance on very old PCs - it has absolutely zero use now. Type 2 has always had more compatibility which is the only thing that matters now.

[smrpix]

I say this time and time again. The solution to this problem is to use ScenalyzerLive, it is free and by far the best program for DV capture. It handles sample rate changes flawlessly, with the option of splitting the file on change.

I never used it myself because indexing the tape to utilize the advanced features requires both a real-time indexing pass and a real-time+ capture pass. In this situation, it's definitely worth checking out.

[SixFiftyThree]

I say this time and time again. The solution to this problem is to use ScenalyzerLive, it is free and by far the best program for DV capture. It handles sample rate changes flawlessly, with the option of splitting the file on change.

I never used it myself because indexing the tape to utilize the advanced features requires both a real-time indexing pass and a real-time+ capture pass. In this situation, it's definitely worth checking out.

No indexing is required for any features, period, other than recapturing chosen sections of tape for which the indexing is used for - and that only works as long as timecode is intact. It is unrelated to the audio issue.

[jader201]

Looks like ScenalyzerLive is going to do exactly what I needed! Thanks to both of you for your help!