4K Going Mainstream

[glenpinn]

^ummm, speak for yourself. It is not an infatuation. It is an acknowledgement. Good luck trying to find a CRT or SD analog TV in the store. In the future, good luck finding anything less than UHD. Of course, I am speaking for consumers in the US.

Seriously, are you the re-incarnation of newpball ????

Firstly, i am speaking for myself, and i am entitled to offer my opinion without the likes of you ripping my post apart and taking every single comment out of context and twisting it around to suit your own end goal

Secondly, why on earth are you going on about about CRT or SD Analog TV for crying out loud, so i have no idea what you are ranting on about, had nothing what so ever to do with what i said earlier ????

And FYFI 1080p HD TV will still be here for many years to come, because for the majority, 4k is going to be a pointless proposition for quite some time yet, just as Bluray is/was pointless to many people, for some very good and very valid reasons, and besides, not everyone is like you, not everyone sees things the same way you do, and i dare say this is very evident right here in this forum.

Oh, and btw, why do you say "for consumers in USA" like what is so different about the USA than anywhere else, do you seriously think that the USA is any better or more advanced than any other country to warrant saying such a thing ??????

[ron spencer]

Japan will lead way first...then to North America. This is a long time coming...there is no demand for 4K yet on this side of the word. I think in 5 years will be as ubiquitous as 1080 is now.

[julitomg]

^ummm, speak for yourself. It is not an infatuation. It is an acknowledgement. Good luck trying to find a CRT or SD analog TV in the store. In the future, good luck finding anything less than UHD. Of course, I am speaking for consumers in the US.

Seriously, are you the re-incarnation of newpball ????

Let´s prepare ourselves for an upcoming Poll along these lines:

POLL: WHY YOU DON´T LIKE 4k/UHD?
a) Because I´m just a curmudgeon old engineer.
b) Because all I need or want is to watch B&W SD TV on my 10 inch circular CRT (the carved wood cabinet is great, tho)
c) Because I live in a country where we don´t appreciate technical innovation or image quality.
d) All of the above.

And, to stay on topic..I wonder wheter these smarphones will have heat issues, some models get quite hot. And now, cramming that higher resolution, image sensor and all....

[SameSelf]

And, to stay on topic..I wonder wheter these smarphones will have heat issues, some models get quite hot. And now, cramming that higher resolution, image sensor and all....

Did you read my post?

This might be a testament to Qualcomm's Snapdragon 810 H.265/HEVC support. The nice thing is you can stream the video from your phone to your UHD TV.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/4K-video-heat-test-with-Xperia-Z5-hints-that-its-Snapdr...s-cool_id73296

[julitomg]

This might be a testament to Qualcomm's Snapdragon 810 H.265/HEVC support. The nice thing is you can stream the video from your phone to your UHD TV.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/4K-video-heat-test-with-Xperia-Z5-hints-that-its-Snapdr...s-cool_id73296

Ok, let´s just see how it fares in real world conditions

[glenpinn]

Ok, let´s just see how it fares in real world conditions

Next this guy is going to tell us that all the hollywood movie directors will be shooting their movies with 4k smart phones

Goodie, can't wait for all the phones to start burning up and disintegrating under the strain.

Seriously some people need a serious reality check, and come back to planet earth.

Let´s prepare ourselves for an upcoming Poll along these lines:

POLL: WHY YOU DON´T LIKE 4k/UHD?
a) Because I´m just a curmudgeon old engineer.
b) Because all I need or want is to watch B&W SD TV on my 10 inch circular CRT (the carved wood cabinet is great, tho)
c) Because I live in a country where we don´t appreciate technical innovation or image quality.
d) All of the above.

be a while before anyone does it quite like newpball did

And, to stay on topic..I wonder wheter these smarphones will have heat issues, some models get quite hot. And now, cramming that higher resolution, image sensor and all....

Yes, as mentioned already in my comment earlier in my post, heat definately will be an issue, the same as having to deal with these DSLR cameras that are prone to shutting down because of the massive amounts of heat being generated.

I am going to stick to my conventional video cams where heat is not an issue.

[SameSelf]

Just got finished finalizing a half time video. I hate HD video. It had been a while since last football season, and I forgot just how bad HD video looks. I may need to look at renting a 4K camera for the next game. If HD video works for you, great. It works for me too when all I am doing is home video with close up shots. When the subject is a football field length away, it is a different story.

[Cornucopia]

If you are sticking to static shots that include both panorama and detail, then you are probably right, but part of the visceral impact of sports video is in the camera work: motion and different POVs, many of which are medium shots or close ups.
That doesn't necessarily require 4k cameras, but it does need good optics and steadiness (and choreography).

All depends on whether you are going for a formalist or a realist look & feel, I'd say.

Scott

[SameSelf]

If you are sticking to static shots that include both panorama and detail, then you are probably right

Finally someone is on my side in this debate and understands why there is a need for 4K video or higher even.

[Gregg]

Seriously some people need a serious reality check, and come back to planet earth.

4k video on a smartphone? What a tasteless excuse of a joke!
If you have an 80" TV you're watching from 30 feet maybe 4k is for you.
Most TV stations don't to get to 1080p yet and you're talking about 4k? How much commercially available 4k content are you expecting in the next 5 years to be available?
Finally if I'm shooting 4k video I'm definitely not using any f***ing phone!

[ron spencer]

640P ought to be enough for anybody.

[glenpinn]

I hate HD video. It had been a while since last football season, and I forgot just how bad HD video looks.

LOL, you hate HD video and forgot how bad it looks, like are we meant to take this sort of comment seriously, or is it just another one of your attempts to nit pick HD video in your attempt to over glorify your apparent obsession with 4k video.

I would love to know what particular sport events are you talking about, who is shooting it, and what equipment are they using for starters ?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with HD video, even in sports, it is still going to be with us for quite some time into the future, and 4k cams are most definately not needed to shoot good quality sports, IF you have the right equipment to do it with, and you know what you are doing, because shooting sport does require a completely different approach than shooting any other type of video.

If you are sticking to static shots that include both panorama and detail, then you are probably right

Finally someone is on my side in this debate and understands why there is a need for 4K video or higher even.

Why the massive over reaction here, from what i read into the comments made by Scott, he is not actually agreeing with you that HD looks bad, nor is he saying that you do need to shoot sports video (or any video for that mater) in 4k, all he was doing was pointing out the inevitable facts about 4k video that would probably apply to any kind of video, not just for sports, referring to the Detail part of his comment.

but part of the visceral impact of sports video is in the camera work: motion and different POVs, many of which are medium shots or close ups.
That doesn't necessarily require 4k cameras, but it does need good optics and steadiness (and choreography).

What about these other comments made by Scott, i don't see you quoting any part of these and jumping up and down like a winner, because he is absolutely correct, and this would support my comment earlier in this post where i referred to not requiring a 4k camera to shoot good video, sports related or otherwise, it all comes down to the equipment that is used, and the skill of the person shooting the video.

We all know that 4k is just going to be a natural progression into the future, especially when it matures a lot more, but i know a lot of videographers who shoot professional sports events in 1080p, and what they produce is amazing video, because they use the appropriate equipment, and have the expertise and knowledge required to shoot good quality video in HD format, and no doubt at some time in the future, most of them will eventually move to shooting 4k themselves as part of the natural progression, just as i am doing myself, but not for shooting sports.

[SameSelf]

sorry tldr, since u dont understand my earlier comments, let me try again. for the video i shoot, hd is not enough. hopefully that computes cuz i cant offer anymore explanation other than that.

[glenpinn]

sorry tldr, since u dont understand my earlier comments, let me try again. for the video i shoot, hd is not enough. hopefully that computes cuz i cant offer anymore explanation other than that.

I most certainly did understand your earlier comments, absolutely no confusion at all on my part, the problem lies in the way you wrote all that crap about HD and sports video, so please don't start making me look like the bad guy like you always do.

You jumped on Scotts comment by thanking him for agreeing with you that sports video requires 4k, and he never stated such a thing, and i was simply jumping on you for not responding to his other comments, to which you still have not responded to, probably because you can't, and that is your biggest problem, you are a selective poster, meaning that you only select parts of other peoples posts that you think you can use to win your argument, and that kind of selective argument isn't going to work on me.

[Cornucopia]

@SameSelf, Not that I necessarily disagree with you in your enthusiasm for newer technologies (such as 4k) as a simple search of my past posts will confirm, but one must take a reasoned approach (neither fanboi nor hater, but openminded skeptic). There are lots of ways of shooting good video (and reasons for doing so), and what's "good" can still be done on HD equipment as well as 4k. Even SD is still valued (newpball be damned). Why? Because content is king. Skill/technique is queen. And as has been mentioned by many here, elsewhere on the net, and in the biz: Resolution is only one small piece of the quality puzzle.

BTW, not flaming, but "TLDR" is the lame response of the lazy/juvenile/liar/forgetful/backpeddler, especially on a forum based on science/technology-oriented discourse. You can do better.

Scott

[glenpinn]

but "TLDR" is the lame response of the lazy/juvenile/liar/forgetful/backpeddler, especially on a forum based on science/technology-oriented discourse.

Yes, it is Lame and very gutless for anyone to throw that terminology up in response to any debate or argument, yet HE expects everyone else to listen to all the tripe and cods wollop that we hear coming from his mouth each and every day, and if i see anyone type something in a forum, i read it all, and then respond accordingly.

It also re-enforces what i had said in my previous post about him being a Selective Poster, and i am not backing down on this, and i make no more apologies to anyone for anything that i say about SameSelf in this forum in the future, at least not while ever he is allowed to carry on the way he does.

Like i already said, he is the closest thing to a re-incarnation of newpball, and i personally won't be putting up with his crap any more, if he wants to dish it out, he best be ready to have the dish thrown back at him.

[SameSelf]

^u got a lot of h8 bro, its why i dont read ur comments

[gonca]

but "TLDR" is the lame response of the lazy/juvenile/liar/forgetful/backpeddler, especially on a forum based on science/technology-oriented discourse.

Yes, it is Lame and very gutless for anyone to throw that terminology up in response to any debate or argument, yet HE expects everyone else to listen to all the tripe and cods wollop that we hear coming from his mouth each and every day, and if i see anyone type something in a forum, i read it all, and then respond accordingly.

It also re-enforces what i had said in my previous post about him being a Selective Poster, and i am not backing down on this, and i make no more apologies to anyone for anything that i say about SameSelf in this forum in the future, at least not while ever he is allowed to carry on the way he does.

Like i already said, he is the closest thing to a re-incarnation of newpball, and i personally won't be putting up with his crap any more, if he wants to dish it out, he best be ready to have the dish thrown back at him.

Based on his posting style and abbreviations (ur for you are) for example I wouldn't be surprised if newpball and sameself are one and the same

[glenpinn]

^u got a lot of h8 bro, its why i dont read ur comments

LOL, i know that you do read my posts, because if you didn't you would have absolutely nothing to say to me, and fwiw, i don't hate anyone except you, for exactly the same reasons why i hated our friend newpball when he was running rampant in this forum, and you wonder why people react to you in the manner that they do.

Stop being a selective poster and have the guts to reply to the questions that are asked of you, instead of hiding in the corner when you are challenged, just like newpball used to do, and please do me a favor and not reply to anything that i post again in this forum.

Based on his posting style and abbreviations (ur for you are) for example I wouldn't be surprised if newpball and sameself are one and the same

Interesting that you point this out, and there is definately some similarities in their posting styles for sure, however i do believe they are 2 different people, but probably the closest thing i have seen yet to being identical twins at least.

[gonca]

^u got a lot of h8 bro, its why i dont read ur comments

LOL, i know that you do read my posts, because if you didn't you would have absolutely nothing to say to me, and fwiw, i don't hate anyone except you, for exactly the same reasons why i hated our friend newpball when he was running rampant in this forum, and you wonder why people react to you in the manner that they do.

Stop being a selective poster and have the guts to reply to the questions that are asked of you, instead of hiding in the corner when you are challenged, just like newpball used to do, and please do me a favor and not reply to anything that i post again in this forum.

Based on his posting style and abbreviations (ur for you are) for example I wouldn't be surprised if newpball and sameself are one and the same

Interesting that you point this out, and there is definately some similarities in their posting styles for sure, however i do believe they are 2 different people, but probably the closest thing i have seen yet to being identical twins at least.

OMG!!!
There are two of them?

[glenpinn]

OMG!!! There are two of them?

Well better to have twins than triplets

[usually_quiet]

4K or not, cell phone cameras are for causal use. Anyone who expects more from them is likely to be disappointed.

They are a pocket camera replacement. No doubt people who use these new Sonys for taking snapshots or capturing a few minutes of video will be thrilled.

[gonca]

4K or not, cell phone cameras are for causal use. Anyone who expects more from them is likely to be disappointed.

They are a pocket camera replacement. No doubt people who use these new Sonys for taking snapshots or capturing a few minutes of video will be thrilled.

Agreed
As Scott said --- resolution is only a small part of quality.
4k - 2k - 480 can all produce HQ if used appropriately.
SameSelf seems to believe that res and quality have a pure linear relationship, the higher the res the higher the quality automatically

[gonca]

OMG!!! There are two of them?

Well better to have twins than triplets

gamemaniaco? (gamey)

[lingyi]

IMHO, 4K (UHD) alone is an interim innovation. UHD + HDR dislays are right around the corner (as early as October 2015 for Panasonic's recently announced CZ950) and once again we have to wait for cameras to play catch up.

Unlike UHD alone, early reports of HDR displays are that the benefits of HDR are immediately and qualitatively noticable.

[sneaker]

HDR displays are already on the market (Samsung SUHD series) and Amazon is already streaming HDR content. Netflix and UHD BluRay should follow early next year/late this year.

[Cornucopia]

Yeah the UHD+WCG+HDR demos that I saw on the 80" Samsung SUHD screens at SXSW were MESMERIZING!
...Content might take a while to catch up, though.

Scott

[ron spencer]

http://mashable.com/2015/09/02/sony-xperia-z5-premium-4k/

Don't be fooled by Sony's 4K smartphone; it's 100% hype

BERLIN — I love Sony. Even when Sony is failing, I love the Japanese company because it designs some of the best consumer electronics products money can buy. Heck, even Steve Jobs admired Sony's ethos.

But the company's newly announced Xperia Z5 Premium Android smartphone and its world's first 4K display is completely outrageous and virtually indistinguishable from a smartphone with a lower-resolution QuadHD or Full HD display — to the naked eye, at least.

Here's how Sony's press conferences at big tech trade shows like CES and IFA work: A Sony executive hops on stage and talks about all the amazing new gadgets they're announcing. The hall is filled and hundreds of seated and standing press. If you're a vet, you'll know to pack your bags up right as he/she is wrapping up and make way to the curtained "hands on" areas where all the new gadgets are.
I was one of those seasoned tech reporters. I was quick and nimble and didn't even sit down (I couldn't because I was almost late). As soon as Sony CEO Kaz Hirai said he was putting on one last video reel, I bolted for the hands-on area to be amongst the first to touch the Z5 Premium and gaze at its 4K display.

I wasn't quick enough because dozens of other reporters had the same idea. And so I had to wait — wait until the ones who got there first finished playing around with the phones so I could take my photos, coddle it myself and write my own hands-on article.
See the photo above? It's a frantic scene and everyone is antsy. Everyone wants to touch the phones. Reporters were recording video, taking photos and Periscoping the Xperia Z5 Premium and touting how amazing the 4K display was — only they weren't looking at a 4K display. They were all looking at the Xperia Z5, the 1080p full HD model.

HA!

I'm not even going pretend like I didn't get fooled either. Because I did. When it was finally my turn to go "hands on" with the device, I didn't feel like I could see the 4K resolution, but I was swept up in the excitement all around me. I was one of the lucky members of the press to feast his eyes on a 4K smartphone. Holy f*cking yeah!

After handing the Z5 off to the next dude, I floated around the hands-on table to shoot photos of the Xperia Z5 Compact, which is unmistakably smaller, thicker and comes in brighter colors. Then I realized something, the Z5 Premium was being displayed under the glass to show off its luxury colors: chrome, gold and black. It really didn't help that the Z5 and Z5 Premium look so similar in terms of design.

The more I looked around Sony's booth, the more I suspected we had all been duped. Sony had a separate section where the Z5 Premium wasn't under glass, but mounted onto a wall. Here, Sony was showing off the better color and contrast on the 4K display compared to a "conventional display," which looked like a 1080p panel to me (who knows, maybe it was a QuadHD panel).
Sony had its booth attendents closely guarding these devices, ready to scold anyone who tried to touch them. I didn't get the memo because I touched it and was gently yelled at. NO TOUCHING!. Oops?

So I went back to the crowded hands-on area above and asked the Sony reps manning the station and fielding questions which models were actually on display and if the Z5 Premium was anywhere on the table.
Ready for this? Even he thought there was a Z5 Premium on the table. It wasn't until he asked another Sony rep and confirmed what I had already figured out: We had all been amazed by a 1080p display, thinking it was a 4K display.

That wasn't even the worst part. The reporters playing around with the phones went right on yapping about the Z5's amazing 4K display and Sony's reps didn't feel the need to correct them. You don't need to understand German or French or Mandarin to be able to hear someone calling a phone's screen 4K when it's clearly not.

I love high-resolution screens as much as the next nerd, but we all know that most people can't tell the difference between a 1080p display and a QuadHD display when holding their phones out at 10-12 inches (a length considered to be normal) from their face. And now Sony's expecting people to be able to discern the difference between its even more pixel-dense 4K smartphone display and "conventional" phone displays, which I guess is what we're calling full HD and Quad HD?

I call bullsh*t. 4K may make for great marketing and chart comparisons between phones, but it doesn't mean squat in real-world use. Unless you're using the phone in a virtual-reality headset like Google Cardboard (where the phone really is an inch from your face), even a QuadHD smartphone display is overkill.

I still plan on checking out the Z5 Premium when it's released, primarily because it's supposed to have a crazy awesome camera, incredible two-day battery life and a fingerprint sensor built into the side power button. And when I do, I plan to show people a Z5 and Z5 Premium side by side and see if they can tell the difference.

After what I witnessed at IFA, I can virtually guarantee most people won't, and it'll be even more difficult to pick a 4K display compared to a QuadHD phone. Leave it to Sony to make "Premium" a dirty word.

[Cornucopia]

That just confirms what I said in Post #2.

Scott

[ron spencer]

I'm not saying 4k is a 100% bad idea, just that its sole addition here is to get people crazy...like the megapixel war. There are plenty of "phone issues" that need to be figured out first, some of which have been mentioned in this thread (battery life, more RAM since RAM is cheap, etc.).

Even more so for the proponents, you are not going to get anything but very basic video...there is no real zoom lens or proper audio capture. Give me a decicated video camera any day, and fix the "phone issues" first. Then add 4k and other ancillary features. This is not likely to happen, as most people don't have a clue what's going on.