Getting the full framerate from TV shows shot on video?

[crgc]

I'm trying to rip some old TV shows (mostly old Doctor Who's where the bulk of the episodes were recorded on videotape) from DVD onto my computer. But regardless of the framerate I pick (the software auto-detects it at 25fps) when I view the actual DVD and the ripped file side-by-side, the motion is always noticeably less smooth in the rip. Particularly with scrolling titles, they're smooth as butter on the dvd but choppy in the ripped file. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

[DB83]

We would need to see a sample of your 'rip' (use avidemux with 'copy' for audio and video to mark in a section) and upload here as an attachment.

[jagabo]

We don't really need a sample. Those Doctor Who episodes where shot as interlaced PAL video. You can either encode 25 fps interlaced or 50 fps with a double frame rate deinterlacer like Yadif or QTGMC.

[DB83]

^^ Maybe not. But it could help and also know what process(es) have been done from dvd to what he looks at now.

[crgc]

We don't really need a sample. Those Doctor Who episodes where shot as interlaced PAL video. You can either encode 25 fps interlaced or 50 fps with a double frame rate deinterlacer like Yadif or QTGMC.

Would the latter not then apply the effect to the entire episode, even the scenes shot on film? Call me dumb but I don't get how the video looks fine when watching on a DVD player but the fluidity of motion gets stripped away as soon as it's ripped into any format

[jagabo]

We don't really need a sample. Those Doctor Who episodes where shot as interlaced PAL video. You can either encode 25 fps interlaced or 50 fps with a double frame rate deinterlacer like Yadif or QTGMC.

Would the latter not then apply the effect to the entire episode, even the scenes shot on film? Call me dumb but I don't get how the video looks fine when watching on a DVD player but the fluidity of motion gets stripped away as soon as it's ripped into any format

Even if some scenes were shot on film, doubling the frame rate to 50p will be just as smooth as watching the DVD on a DVD player. That's essentially what the player/TV will do.

[crgc]

Even if some scenes were shot on film, doubling the frame rate to 50p will be just as smooth as watching the DVD on a DVD player. That's essentially what the player/TV will do.

But on the DVD you can clearly distinguish between film and video based on how smooth the video looks. I still don't get how the effect works on a DVD player but not when the video file is ripped

[davexnet]

Even if some scenes were shot on film, doubling the frame rate to 50p will be just as smooth as watching the DVD on a DVD player. That's essentially what the player/TV will do.

But on the DVD you can clearly distinguish between film and video based on how smooth the video looks. I still don't get how the effect works on a DVD player but not when the video file is ripped

Why don't you upload a sample from the DVD where there is a transition from film to video tape - hopefully something
with some steady motion in it
Is this one of the episodes from Jon Pertwee or Tom Baker?

[crgc]

Why don't you upload a sample from the DVD where there is a transition from film to video tape - hopefully something
with some steady motion in it
Is this one of the episodes from Jon Pertwee or Tom Baker?

I don't really know how because as soon as I rip it or even play the DVD on a computer as opposed to a dvd player on a TV the smooth motion is gone. And you can't really tell what's 'wrong' with the ripped file unless you play it side-by-side with the DVD. Which isn't something I can really replicate here

[davexnet]

Just upload something from the DVD that's suitable. I assume you've successfully copied the video_ts folder
to the computer.
Use DGindex, find the spot you want, use the [ and ] to mark it,
file / save project and demux video.
Upload the m2v.
You could also upload a section from your encode showing the problem with fluidity.
Sometimes, thinking ahead about what we think may have gone wrong, turns out to be the wrong assumption.
Best to take a look

[manono]

It sounds to me like you might not be just 'ripping' but ripping and reencoding or ripping and converting.

First, decrypt the DVD to your hard drive using something like DVD Decrypter. Next, open a VOB file in DGIndex and scroll to a place meeting the requirements. Use the [ and ] buttons to isolate 10 seconds or so. Then File->Save Project and Demux Video. Among other things, you'll get an M2V you can upload here.

Edit: Too late

[davexnet]

Edit: Too late

Not at all. I didn't mention anything about whether the disk was properly decrypted, just
assumed it was already done!

[crgc]

Just upload something from the DVD that's suitable. I assume you've successfully copied the video_ts folder
to the computer.
Use DGindex, find the spot you want, use the [ and ] to mark it,
file / save project and demux video.
Upload the m2v.
You could also upload a section from your encode showing the problem with fluidity.
Sometimes, thinking ahead about what we think may have gone wrong, turns out to be the wrong assumption.
Best to take a look

I don't suppose there's a Mac version of it?

[crgc]

Just upload something from the DVD that's suitable. I assume you've successfully copied the video_ts folder
to the computer.
Use DGindex, find the spot you want, use the [ and ] to mark it,
file / save project and demux video.
Upload the m2v.
You could also upload a section from your encode showing the problem with fluidity.
Sometimes, thinking ahead about what we think may have gone wrong, turns out to be the wrong assumption.
Best to take a look

It won't demonstrate the problem. On closer inspection, the fluidity is only there when I'm playing the DVD on a DVD player and my TV. If I play the DVD on a computer, it's gone. And similarly, if I rip the DVD and play it on my media server connected to the same TV, again the fluid motion is lost.

I can't show the problem because you can't notice any issues with the ripped files unless you see it alongside the DVD. On its own it looks fine.

[davexnet]

Is the frame rate of the encoded video 25 fps? The DVD original probably 25 interlaced, giving 50 fields.
So by reducing to 25 fps progressive you lose half the temporal resolution.

However there is a way to de-interlace that turns 25i to 50p. Handbrake and Vidcoder can do it.

[jagabo]

But on the DVD you can clearly distinguish between film and video based on how smooth the video looks.

And if you convert everything to 50p with a double rate deinterlacer you will see exactly the same thing.

Use DGindex, find the spot you want, use the [ and ] to mark it,
file / save project and demux video.
Upload the m2v.

It won't demonstrate the problem. On closer inspection, the fluidity is only there when I'm playing the DVD on a DVD player and my TV.

I'm sorry but you simply don't know enough about what your doing. Everybody in this thread aside from you knows exactly how to deal with it and has done so for many years.

[crgc]

I'm sorry but you simply don't know enough about what your doing. Everybody in this thread aside from you knows exactly how to deal with it and has done so for many years.

I'm sorry for asking VideoHelp forum without prior knowledge on how to solve the problem I'm asking help for help in solving. I see my mistake.

[crgc]

Is the frame rate of the encoded video 25 fps? The DVD original probably 25 interlaced, giving 50 fields.
So by reducing to 25 fps progressive you lose half the temporal resolution.

However there is a way to de-interlace that turns 25i to 50p. Handbrake and Vidcoder can do it.

So I'm assuming I'd need to make a 1:1 copy of the DVD and then import the TS files into Handbrake?

[davexnet]

I'm sorry but you simply don't know enough about what your doing. Everybody in this thread aside from you knows exactly how to deal with it and has done so for many years.

I see my mistake.

I'm not sure. You haven't responded in a positive way to any of the suggestions that have been made.
Enough detail about a possible remedy to the problem has been given based on the limited info revealed.
Go ahead and try it yourself then report back. Handbrake runs on the mac

[davexnet]

Is the frame rate of the encoded video 25 fps? The DVD original probably 25 interlaced, giving 50 fields.
So by reducing to 25 fps progressive you lose half the temporal resolution.

However there is a way to de-interlace that turns 25i to 50p. Handbrake and Vidcoder can do it.

So I'm assuming I'd need to make a 1:1 copy of the DVD and then import the TS files into Handbrake?

What was your work flow earlier? You've given little detail about what you actually did.
If it's a commercial disk it's probably copy protected.
I know nothing about the mac, Is there a program that will rip/decrypt the disk to the HDD ?

Once it's on the HDD, open the title (episode) you want to encode and set bob deinterlace in the HB settings

I found an old David Letterman clip I captured off the air 10 years ago, it's 1080i
In Handbrake try it like this
:

[DB83]

Handbrake[/url]?

Well that comment alone speaks volumes.


For the last time, since your refusal to cooperate means no one can help, just what have you done, and how did you do it, to get the contents from the disk to your PC and what have you done, and the tools used, to the files after that.

[jagabo]

What is the refresh rate of your computer monitor? Which of these videos play more smoothly?

[crgc]

Is the frame rate of the encoded video 25 fps? The DVD original probably 25 interlaced, giving 50 fields.
So by reducing to 25 fps progressive you lose half the temporal resolution.

However there is a way to de-interlace that turns 25i to 50p. Handbrake and Vidcoder can do it.

So I'm assuming I'd need to make a 1:1 copy of the DVD and then import the TS files into Handbrake?

What was your work flow earlier? You've given little detail about what you actually did.
If it's a commercial disk it's probably copy protected.
I know nothing about the mac, Is there a program that will rip/decrypt the disk to the HDD ?

Once it's on the HDD, open the title (episode) you want to encode and set bob deinterlace in the HB settings

I found an old David Letterman clip I captured off the air 10 years ago, it's 1080i
In Handbrake try it like this
:

Ok I'm doing that now. I'll let you know how it goes