Variable or Constant Framerate?

[JackDanielZ]

Hey everybody

I use Handbrake, Ripbot264 and Staxrip as my converters, But I need a advice for the framerate, should it be Constant or Variable and why, and should I choose same as source or a framerate of my choosing?

I have bin using CONSTANT framerate for a while, but I read that with some videos it will be better with VARIABLE because of interlacing and if the framerate changes in the movie.

Its maybe simple question for you guys, but it has really bin a hard choice for me.

I hope you can explain your answers to me also.

JackDanielZ

[MOVIEGEEK]

Just use constant and enable Decomb then select Default.
My reason: if the studios don't use variable framerate then neither should we, if you want to make a smaller size file then use variable bitrate.

https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/VariableFrameRate

What I use:

https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/Decomb

[JackDanielZ]

Just use constant and enable Decomb then select Default, as for framerate changing in film or video...I've never heard of that.
My reason: if the studios don't use variable framerate then neither should we, if you want to make a smaller size file then use variable bitrate.

Thank you

[sanlyn]

Constant framerate. Many containers (AVI, mkv), players. DVD, etc., don't support variable frame rates.

I have bin using CONSTANT framerate for a while, but I read that with some videos it will be better with VARIABLE because of interlacing and if the framerate changes in the movie.

Where did you read that?

[Island_Dweller]

MKV supports vfr, and if a movie has both telecined and truly interlaced content, then vfr can be of help.

[sanlyn]

No way it's "better". Better for what, and for what media and players? Telecine/interlace mix are everywhere. Never heard of anyone claiming VFR made them "play better", but VFR does exist. Try processing it sometime without screwing up the works.

[manono]

No way it's "better". Better for what, and for what media and players? Telecine/interlace mix are everywhere.

If you have to encode them for a single framerate (telecine and true video) you wind up blending frames and the video will play slightly jerky and slightly blurry both. In such cases VFR encoding can be useful. Another place where it's often used is with animations where you have all the duplicate frames and all kinds of 'base' framerates. Yes, if the player doesn't support VFR you'll wind up with a real mess, but in many cases VFR can be very useful.

[sanlyn]

Cleaning up video is tough enough without letting oneself in for more. I'd avoid it at the outset. I can recall seeing many many many many posts by poor frustrated devils having a helluva time with it, and stuck with video that can't be fixed.

[manono]

Cleaning up video is tough enough without letting oneself in for more. I'd avoid it at the outset.

Oh sure, you don't want to have to do anything with it but play it once it's VFR. I've read those same posts by the people that have these VFR phone videos (whose bright idea was that?) or MKVs, so if you use VFR it's for the final output, not some intermediate stage.

[JackDanielZ]

Thank you everyone... The TEXT that made me confused was this page: https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/VariableFrameRate and then scroll down to Variable Frame Rate

What also confused is that example, if u choose the HIGH Profile in Handbrake it chooses VRF and I thought with my newbie knowledge "The HIGH PROFILE CHOOSEs VRF, THEN IT MUST BE THE BEST QUALITY VISE, SINCE ITS A HIGH PROFILE"

[sanlyn]

Cleaning up video is tough enough without letting oneself in for more. I'd avoid it at the outset.

Oh sure, you don't want to have to do anything with it but play it once it's VFR. I've read those same posts by the people that have these VFR phone videos (whose bright idea was that?) or MKVs, so if you use VFR it's for the final output, not some intermediate stage.

Yes, I get what you're saying. My last experience with a chunk of VFR video was over a year ago, bad experience of an acquaintance with a family tape transferred to mkv with VFR problems.

Oh, well. And people used to say VHS was a low-quality pain in the neck. We seem determined to come full circle again.

[theewizard]

my memory "real media" video was famous for VFR
and a real PITA to convert to anything else

NEVER EVER use VFR

[smrpix]

VFR ONLY makes sense for sending unedited clips from phone to phone because of potential bandwidth savings and the ability to compenste for low light by using longer exposure per frame. In that sense alone it is kind of an elegant solution.

For real life, use CFR.

[Selur]

for me vfr makes send for material that:
a. will benefit from vfr, meaning content with often static and sometimes really active scenes (powerpoint stuff, lectures, old style animes)
b. isn't ment for later editing (or reencoding to cfr)
c. aims for software players

[hello_hello]

Given some NTSC video can be a combination of 23.976 and 29.970, it kind of makes sense to me to keep it as it is, rather than try to convert part of it to a common frame rate, assuming it generally wouldn't cause any problem on playback.
Assuming you're encoding a DVD to watch the encode, and any need to re-encode the encode at a constant framerate isn't particularly relevant, would using Handbrake's variable frame rate mode for film/video combinations be likely to cause playback problems? I assume the Handbrake developer(s) don't think so, but I don't live in NTSC-land and I've never encoded with Handbrake myself.

[Selur]

would using Handbrake's variable frame rate mode for film/video combinations be likely to cause playback problems?

If you use a software player and mp4 or mkv as container: no.

[x264]

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=34738

[brusno]

I would recommend using CFR because then the resulting film will have better compability.

[kes1802]

I know nothing about encoding but a lot about watching. MKVs made with handbrake using variable frame rate always give me trouble on my hardware media player.

I found a fix at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twpFORfRPoc and mostly it works.

I would suggest that all those who are planning to distribute MKVs test them with the procedure shown in the YouTube VDO. If you get no errors then carry on. If you get errors try again or distribute as is but expect dissatisfaction from some like me who cannot play them, as is, on their hardware media players.

Same goes for AVIs encoded in XVID with GMC (Warpoints) on. A total no-no for my hardware media player.

[skaleton]

If you have to encode them for a single framerate (telecine and true video) you wind up blending frames and the video will play slightly jerky and slightly blurry both. In such cases VFR encoding can be useful. ... Yes, if the player doesn't support VFR you'll wind up with a real mess, but in many cases VFR can be very useful.

What is the best way to know whether it's a mix of telecine and true video?

[kes1802]

Just a thought.

Don't all the hardware devices, cine cameras, video cameras, digital movie cameras, etc that produce the media in the first place operate on constant frame rate? If so why the need for variable frame rate? And if changing the frame rate is likely to cause jerky or blurry media (as mentioned in post #20) why do it?

[manono]

What is the best way to know whether it's a mix of telecine and true video?

By looking at it.

[skaleton]

By looking at it.

You mean watching the whole video frame by frame?

[manono]

You mean watching the whole video frame by frame?

That's what I mean, yes. There is no automatic way to tell soft telecine from hard telecine from pure interlace. Well, AutoGK can, but it doesn't make VFR encodes. I don't know about MeGUI's video analyzer, but I doubt it.

There are some notorious examples of this that drive encoders crazy. For example, many of the Star Trek spinoff TV series use film for the main parts but interlaced 29.97fps for the computer generated stuff. In anime you sometimes find it - the episodes themselves being hard or soft telecine (mostly), or a mix, but credits being interlaced 29.97fps and maybe the opening song being progressive 29.97fps in part or all. Documentaries often mix portions shot on film with other parts shot on video.

[skaleton]

Thank you for your reply, manono
I was hoping you'd have a magic solution, especially as I can't always find easy to see the difference between interlaced and non interlaced frames.

Actually I checked Megui and in the video analyser, it has in the drop-down list of sources, various film/interlaced combinations.
I wonder how accurate it is.

And sometimes programs can't even agree on the issue.
The other day, I wanted to encode a PAL mpeg2 TS from TV recording.
DGIndex found it interlaced and Megui progressive. So I had a look at it and, as far as I could tell, I couldn't find any interlacing.

[manono]

The other day, I wanted to encode a PAL mpeg2 TS from TV recording.
DGIndex found it interlaced and Megui progressive. So I had a look at it and, as far as I could tell, I couldn't find any interlacing.

All three of you are correct. DGindex tells you how it was encoded, and the vast majority of PAL progressive sources are encoded as interlaced. Both MeGUI and your eyes found the content to be progressive.

[skaleton]

First sorry for having introduced an off topic discussion in this thread.

All three of you are correct. DGindex tells you how it was encoded, and the vast majority of PAL progressive sources are encoded as interlaced. Both MeGUI and your eyes found the content to be progressive.

This is rather confusing.
Should such an mpeg2 video be treated as progressive or interlaced when converting it?

Do you agree with this piece of advice I just found?

Progressive footage encoded as 'interlaced'. This is where you have footage which doesn't look like it has any interlacing at all but DGIndex has told you that every frame was encoded using Interlaced encoding. This means that the footage was encoded one field at a time even though both fields are part of the same frame. This isn't a problem, really - you can still encode and edit it progressively.

[manono]

Should such an mpeg2 video be treated as progressive or interlaced when converting it?

If reencoding for PAL DVD, you can reencode it as interlaced. Or progressive. If converting to NTSC or reencoding for something other than DVD you had better reencode it as progressive.

Do you agree with this piece of advice I just found?

Yes.

[skaleton]

Thank you very much for your reply manono
It was converted to x264 and I'm glad I did it as progressive.

[OnlySublime]

I had my first bad experience with variable framerate videos. Do not encode with variable framerate!

While players will handle the variable framerate and play it back properly, if you use timing sensitive software like Adobe Premiere, your audio and video will desync and it's maddening to work with variable framerate videos because of the sync problems.