Firewire or usb2.0 for external drive media center recording? esata?

[yoda313]

Ok I just did a test of my usb2.0 harddrive (western digital 160gb) for recording tv via windows media center - vista premium edition. I was amazed. I did ten minutes of the food network and it looked perfect. No discenerable lag and I was able to fast forward and fast reverse live tv just as I can on the internal harddrive.

Now my goal is to get a larger harddrive. I have a 500gb internal harddrive I am currently using to record. However know that I know I can reliably record tv to an external drive I am interested in investing in the right type.

I have open firewire ports so I am wondering if a firewire drive would be more reliable for tv recording then a usb2.0 drive.

Also would it be better and cheaper to get an external enclosure and buy a cheaper internal drive to put it in? Would that wear out more than a specifically designed external drive - either firewire or usb2.0?

I am going to try out recording on my usb2.0 drive for a little while to see if there are any perceived drawbacks.

Suggestions are welcome. Plus please note I'm not looking to spend more than 100-120.00 or so I know I'll be limited to 250gb or so for fixed external or about 400gb for internal+external enclosure.

--------------------------------------

A seperate note - I have a dual core cpu so I am wondering about the feasiblity of dual tuner recoring on the same pc. I have a usb pinnacle hd pro stick in addition to my fusion hdtv pci card. How would it be to dual record simultaneously? I believe I've read its best to record to seperate drives to lower frame drop issues.

I would like to try this but would like to read real world experiences and any tips/advice you have for doing this. FYI I'd probably be using media center to record on the fusion pci card and the pinnacle software to record on the pinnacle adapter.

Thanks on both questions...

[redwudz]

I would look into a SATA external drive. Same speed as an internal drive, and portable if needed. If you have a free SATA MB connector, you just need a SATA PCI slot adapter. You can get them with regular SATA or E-SATA sockets.

I've had mixed results with external USB drives. Most times they work fine, but if you have several USB devices, sometimes not so good. FireWire seems to work better with sustained transfers, but neither are anywhere near the performance of external SATA.

[yoda313]

I do have a sata card. HOWEVER I have it set to internal mode so my BLURAY drive can connect to the internal port. It has two external ports but I thought you can only have it set to INTERNAL or EXTERNAL only - not both.

is that true? Now I do have an alternative. SInce I got my ps3 I am not using my bluray drive as my main player. I could conceivably get a 5 1/4 sata enclosure and have the sata card set to external. Then I could have a sata harddrive and the sata bluray set to external.

Would that be feasible?

[jagabo]

You can get internal SATA to eSATA adapters very cheap. They even come with a lot of eSATA drives and enclosures. For example:

http://www.usb-ware.com/sata-dual-internal-esata-adapter.htm
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817145167

[edDV]

Media Center data rates are very low (under 3MB/s, ~3-19Mb/s) so sustained throughput isn't an issue. Firewire is less susceptible to interrupt loss so long as there is just this one device on Firewire. Interrupt loss comes from OS or other activity that take priority over the USB software disk controller. This will be rare on a multi-core, multi-disk desktop.

eSATA offers more isolation and faster file copies but in this application may not be worth added cost.

[jagabo]

I find that once you have a fast external drive you start using it for lots of stuff. Spending an extra US$15 for an eSATA enclosure (vs. USB 2.0) will likely be worth it in the long run.

[yoda313]

@eddv - yeah media center is going to be my main pc recording app so that would be likely for my recording rates. I am using the "better" recording setting.

So eddv - would you think in my circumstance a firewire drive would be better? I do have a dual core amd 2.7 processor.

@jagabo - I have a pci sata card that has two internal and two external ports. But as I mentioned earlier it is configured for internal for the bluray drive. Can this be set to both internal and external?

[edDV]

@eddv - yeah media center is going to be my main pc recording app so that would be likely for my recording rates. I am using the "better" recording setting.

So eddv - would you think in my circumstance a firewire drive would be better? I do have a dual core amd 2.7 processor.

I was referring to HD (ATSC and QAM) rates. USB2 will probably work fine on that machine depending on what else is running. Firewire is a bit more isolated. Like jagabo said, 60MB/s eSATA is better than 30MB/s USB2 in the long run.

BYW1: One of my eSATA enclosures takes PATA or SATA drives. As Martha would say, this is a good thing!

BTW2: Last week I got a 750GB external USB2 drive for just $119 at Fry's.

[redwudz]

I do have a sata card. HOWEVER I have it set to internal mode so my BLURAY drive can connect to the internal port. It has two external ports but I thought you can only have it set to INTERNAL or EXTERNAL only - not both.

is that true? Now I do have an alternative. SInce I got my ps3 I am not using my bluray drive as my main player. I could conceivably get a 5 1/4 sata enclosure and have the sata card set to external. Then I could have a sata harddrive and the sata bluray set to external.

Would that be feasible?

I'm not sure how your card would be set to just internal or external. I'm assuming it has two ports and four SATA sockets. Even if you are using one internal one, you could still use the other with a PCI slot adapter. Or if you don't need the internal port, use one or both of the external ones.

You may want to transfer one of those multii-gigabyte HD files to another computer or just archive it some day, then the SATA drive would prove it's worth.

[piano632]

BYW1: One of my eSATA enclosures takes PATA or SATA drives. As Martha would say, this is a good thing!

Somewhat off topic, but do any of those combo PATA/SATA enclosures allow you to use a PATA drive with eSATA? I've been trying to find one that does, but all USB/eSATA PATA/SATA enclosures I've seen will not convert a PATA drive to eSATA so only the USB connection is usable with a PATA drive.

[edDV]

BYW1: One of my eSATA enclosures takes PATA or SATA drives. As Martha would say, this is a good thing!

Somewhat off topic, but do any of those combo PATA/SATA enclosures allow you to use a PATA drive with eSATA? I've been trying to find one that does, but all USB/eSATA PATA/SATA enclosures I've seen will not convert a PATA drive to eSATA so only the USB connection is usable with a PATA drive.

Hmm, that could be true. I put a SATA drive in there. I'll try to find the documentation.

[yoda313]

I do have a sata card. HOWEVER I have it set to internal mode so my BLURAY drive can connect to the internal port. It has two external ports but I thought you can only have it set to INTERNAL or EXTERNAL only - not both.

is that true? Now I do have an alternative. SInce I got my ps3 I am not using my bluray drive as my main player. I could conceivably get a 5 1/4 sata enclosure and have the sata card set to external. Then I could have a sata harddrive and the sata bluray set to external.

Would that be feasible?

I'm not sure how your card would be set to just internal or external. I'm assuming it has two ports and four SATA sockets. Even if you are using one internal one, you could still use the other with a PCI slot adapter. Or if you don't need the internal port, use one or both of the external ones.

You may want to transfer one of those multii-gigabyte HD files to another computer or just archive it some day, then the SATA drive would prove it's worth.

I have a pny pci sata card:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8552327&st=pny&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1188562133392



I'm nearly certain it is this same model. If its not its the same series. I read one of the reviews on the bestbuy site saying only two ports can be used at once. Perhaps i misinterperted and it can do one internal port and one external just not two and two at once.

So its starting to sound like sata is more favored for externals. Do they make fixed external esata drives or are there only enclosures available? I think I'd probably want a freestanding designed case rather than an enclosure. But would an enclosure be better offering future upgradeability?

[jagabo]

I read one of the reviews on the bestbuy site saying only two ports can be used at once. Perhaps i misinterperted and it can do one internal port and one external just not two and two at once.

It doesn't matter if you can only use the two internal ports (assuming you have one free). The adaptor lets you route one of the internal ports to the outside of the case converting into an external port.

Do they make fixed external esata drives or are there only enclosures available? I think I'd probably want a freestanding designed case rather than an enclosure. But would an enclosure be better offering future upgradeability?

An external eSATA drive will just be an external enclosure with a drive already installed.

[yoda313]

@jagabo - thanks. That sounds good. Then perhaps I will look into a esata case and drive. I only have the bluray attached to the sata card so yes I have one port free.

[jagabo]

If you have a spare 5 1/4 " bay you might think about one of these instead:

http://www.kingwin.com/product_pages/kf1000-bk.asp
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817990001

I found some for ~US$10 a while back.

[yoda313]

I'm considering some options for esata.

There is a western digital 320gb external selfcontained esata drive available for 100.00 at bestbuy. That would be double my current usb2.0 160gb western digital drive I have now for a fair price. That would simply plug and play and I'd be set. Unfortunately I would not be able to upgrade it. That would be a fixed size.

The cheapest esata enclosure I saw at bestbuy was 72.00. There is a 320gb western digital internal sata for a 100.00 or a 500gb internal sata western digital for 130.00 at bestbuy also.

So if I were to go the enclosure route that would push me toward 200.00 after all is said and done. I'm not sure I want to spend that much. I know that future upgradeability would be a major plus in the setup. But since harddrive prices always go down and storage goes up a fixed drive would not be so bad. I can always upgrade again to a new external down the road.

I'm leaning towards the fixed external western digital esata drive for 320gb at 100.00. That would sound nice to my budget and for capacity. I could do a little high def but not at terabyte levels yet. THis would allow me to record some .tp files off my fusion card without worrying about filling up my 500gb internal harddrive which is already about half full with tv recordings.

Suggestions are welcome but I'm already starting to lean toward the 100.00 fixed drive. THis would also let me leave my 160gb usb drive with my xp machine as a fixed backup drive. I haven't done that since it is my only usb drive larger than my os drive on the xp machine. Then I can leave it on autoupdate for full backup of my 80gb os drive.

Thanks for all the advice and stearing me toward esata since I do have the port available.

[jagabo]

eSATA eclosures starting at US$14 (plus shipping):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000090092%201053807123&bo...nd&Order=PRICE

The WD eSATA drive uses standard SATA drives. You can upgrade it any time you want. Doing so may void the warranty though.

[yoda313]

Thanks jagabo but I'm really not interested in ordering online for this. Just don't like the wait and paying for shipping.

Now are you saying the western digital standalone fixed esata harddrive uses a basic sata connection? So then if you were able to open the case you'd be able to upgrade it? What about formatting and harddrive speeds etc...? Now I'd probably wait several months to make sure the drive was in good shape. I've had no problems whatsoever with my 160gb usb2.0 external wd drive.

EDIT - Hey I'd be able to test if my hddvr has an active esata port if I do buy an esata drive. Maybe I'd buy another one to expand my hddvr storage!

[piano632]

Most pre-built external drives have no way to open them aside from breaking the enclosure. A lot of the ones I've seen look like they're glued together, so you can't open them or exchange drives. Of the ones that can be opened, they usually have silver tape over at least one screw so you'd void the warranty if you broke the tape.

Stay away from Seagate FreeAgent drives. Sure they look cute, but I've seen all kinds of complaints around the 'net about how the eSATA connection doesn't work right on those. And there's no fan in those drives so they get very hot.


Now here's an external hard drive for you. It's waterproof and supposedly can survive a house fire:
http://www.sentrysafe.com/products/productDetail.aspx?s=274
Just that they're pretty expensive, and it's a Maxtor drive inside. The largest size is 250GB however.

[jagabo]

I was just pointing out that it's possible to get external enclosures for a lot less than $70. Check some local screwdriver shop.

I don't have one but I assume the drive inside the WD box is a standard SATA drive with standard SATA connections. eSATA simply defines the external connector and cable. Piano632 may be right that many external drives aren't easily opened.

[yoda313]

Thanks everyone. I''ll look into these and let you know what I decide.

[p_l]

Stay away from Seagate FreeAgent drives. Sure they look cute, but I've seen all kinds of complaints around the 'net about how the eSATA connection doesn't work right on those. And there's no fan in those drives so they get very hot.

Uh-oh, the one I ordered just got to my door 20 minutes ago.

Could you point to some of your sources for your info? I plan on using it on firewire for now but eSATA in the future. Most of the reviews I read were fairly positive.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/freeagent_pro_1tb/5.htm

http://www.futurelooks.com/seagate-freeagent-pro-1tb-external-hard-drive-review/4/

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148306

[piano632]

Could you point to some of your sources for your info? I plan on using it on firewire for now but eSATA in the future. Most of the reviews I read were fairly positive.

I don't recall any specific places to look for Seagate troubles, but I remember doing a Google search some time ago using the words Seagate, eSATA, & problems or some such combination and I found several people complaining about how the eSATA interface was buggy and needed a firmware update but Seagate stopped providing the firmware and they were stuck without eSATA usability. Maybe they've changed since, but I'd do some checking.

Well, here's one I just found:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/244040-32-asus-esata-connection-seagate-freeagent

[p_l]

Thanks for the link. That appears to be the 500 GB model from last fall. I just got the 1 TB model, plugged it in and, shazam, everything's operational, no formatting or anything. So far, so good. I'm writing an Acronis True Image Backup to it as we speak.

[yoda313]

I checked the manual on the web for the dch3416 motorola dvr. It does have a esata connection but there is this notice below the section on add on information:

Do not attempt to connect data devices without contacting your service provider.
Advanced data features require the proper application and network infrastructure
to operate.

What is this about? It won't actually harm anything if the esata port isn't active would it? I mean that seems like a bit of an extreme warning to me. They do mention that not all avaiable features are active and are dependent on service providers. I know that since the usb port isn't active. But why would they say you shouldn't attempt a connection without getting in touch with the service provider first??

[jagabo]

CYA syndrome.

[yoda313]

Ok so thats just warning for warnings sake then huh?

[yoda313]

Well I ended up buying a 100.00 western digital 320gb harddrive. It has esata, firewire, and usb2.0 connections.

Works great. Only downside is it only came with a firewire cable, no esata. I bought the other week and haven't had a chance to pick one up. Turns out bestbuy doesn't carry one currently and neither do Office Max and Office Depot.

I'm gonna try to go to a hobbyist type computer store in the area tomorrow. Hopefully they'll have it. If not I did see Staples carries them, though its a litlle further of a drive...

I'm hoping the esata cable will allow me to test it with my motorola comcast hddvr. I'd absolutely die if it works on the esata port. I'd love to have an expansion drive on the unit. I've already tested it on the firewire port and it didn't do anything. Even though I know it is active since I could dub it to my pc firewire card.

Oh well.

[jagabo]

I'm hoping the esata cable will allow me to test it with my motorola comcast hddvr. I'd absolutely die if it works on the esata port. I'd love to have an expansion drive on the unit. I've already tested it on the firewire port and it didn't do anything. Even though I know it is active since I could dub it to my pc firewire card.

When I plugged mine into the cable box (eSATA) I had to power cycle the cable box before it detected the drive. It then asked if I wanted to formatthe drive (wouldn't use it otherwise). After a few minutes I had an extra 500 GB of storage!

[yoda313]

yep I can't wait