VideoHelp Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 24 of 24
Thread
  1. I use ANYDVD HD to decrypt Blurays so I can copy them onto a hard drive for watching on my media player (with no Bluray drive) connected to my TV. I may also want to make Bluray copies for watching on a Bluray player.

    I've heard that Slysoft haven't been able to crack Cinavia. So how can I rip a Bluray with Cinavia protection?

    Is it just a case of getting a BD-RE Recorder drive which doesn't support Cinavia, then I can rip discs which have Cinavia? If so, does anybody know of any such drives?

    Or will that not make a difference because Cinavia will still be in the disc when you copy it and so it won't work on any Bluray players?

    Is the only solution to buy a Bluray player made before Cinavia was released?
    Last edited by VideoFanatic; 5th May 2013 at 09:15.
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member yoda313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    The Animus
    Search Comp PM
    Whats your media player?

    My understanding of cinavia is it only impacts burnt optical discs not file playback. Though you may run into bluray players that do usb file playback that will reject cinavia infected files.

    In that case you should invest in a non bluray media player unit like a wdtv media player and you won't have any issues.
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
    Quote Quote  
  3. I have an AC Ryan PlayOn HD. I've updated my 1st post.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Member yoda313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    The Animus
    Search Comp PM
    What you need is a device that doesn't respect the bluray aacs info. Wdtv and similar do not.

    Just check the net for a disc that is confirmed with cinavia, rip it and test it on your unit.

    edit - obviously a disc you own of course
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
    Quote Quote  
  5. Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Freedonia
    Search Comp PM
    None of the ripping programs can defeat Cinavia. It is ALWAYS present in the rip.

    If you play the rip via a media player that is NOT certified for BluRay playback, like a Western Digital player, the Cinavia will be ignored even though it is present. This is why even though some people here get all panic stricken and have (no exaggeration) bought up multiple versions of old BluRay players that they keep in storage that do not obey Cinavia, it's not like you have no way to play such files. Again, if your media player is not certified for BluRay playback, you can rip, make an MKV out of the rip, and you're good to go. Do note that we recently got our first report that now Sony BluRay players are enforcing Cinavia restrictions on MKV files. They did not do this before.

    If you rip a Cinavia protected disc and burn it to BluRay, the burn will contain Cinavia. All newly manufactured players are now required to support Cinavia.

    Cinavia restrictions on the PC are enforced in software, NOT hardware. All current commercial BluRay software playing programs have been forced to support Cinavia. There are a few free BD playing programs and they don't support Cinavia, but such free programs aren't guaranteed to play all BluRay discs, so if you have problems, they may not necessarily be due to Cinavia, but there's also not going to be a fix for them.

    DVDFab had (maybe still does for all I know) a fairly bogus "fix" for Cinavia that relied on some trickery and could easily be defeated via a firmware update. I am not sure, but I think I have read that Sony and others have already patched to prevent this from working any more. There are rumors that AnyDVD HD is working on a half-way solution that will enable SOME but not all playback devices that support Cinavia to be fooled into playing consumer burned copies that have it, but that seems to never advance past the "testing" phase. There's a company in Spain that claims it can defeat it, but the program isn't available to consumers and the test files they provided to "prove" it were converted to another format, making it impossible to verify their claims. A recent thread here said that at present the only known way to defeat Cinavia is a very ugly manual re-encoding of the audio with all the high end stripped out that is above 7000 Hz. Nobody is satisfied with that "solution".

    Finally, I suppose it's worth mentioning that some Sony DVDs in the USA/Canada also contain Cinavia in the soundtracks. Cinavia is not an official part of the DVD specification (it got added to the BluRay spec) so there is no way to force DVD player manufacturers to support this, but Sony does enforce Cinavia support on ALL of their players now, whether DVD only or BluRay.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Sorry for bump.

    Keep in mind I don't believe this crap is all present on audio track, it must be just in specific parts of audio. This explains why it pops (stop playing) after around 20 min or so. There is no need to strip the entire audio above 7kHz ! That crap is just on PARTS of it.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Search Comp PM
    Quote Quote  
  8. Originally Posted by Gradius2 View Post
    That crap is just on PARTS of it.
    Wrong. The 20 minute delay is there to slow down those trying to remove the signal. It takes 20 minutes to test whether or not an algorithm is working or not. Cinavia is present through the entire audio track. Any 20 minute segment will trigger it.
    Quote Quote  
  9. Member wulf109's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    If you demux a BR with cinavia and re-encode the audio would that get rid of cinavia?
    Quote Quote  
  10. No because the cinavia protection is still in the audio
    Quote Quote  
  11. Originally Posted by wulf109 View Post
    If you demux a BR with cinavia and re-encode the audio would that get rid of cinavia?
    Yes, if you use a really low bitrate. All successful cracks like that to date have so badly distorted the audio that it's no longer listenable. Listen to the samples in the second post of this thread:
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/357132-Cinavia-removal-technique
    Quote Quote  
  12. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    When your video copy software copies the files it does it in segments. The second segment has is using the Cinavia protection. I don't think it's a function of time, (i.e. 20 minutes,) I believe it is simply the second segment of the recording which may be 20 minutes into the video file. VTS_01_2.VOB is where the sound ends.
    Quote Quote  
  13. Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Search Comp PM
    Cinavia has a really low bitrate, it takes time for the detection software to recover enough information to realise what's what.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia
    giving a per-channel digital signal that can yield up to around 0.2 bits per second
    Only a single channel of audio is required to detect the watermark
    The watermark is only embedded when certain signal-to-noise ratio thresholds are met and is not available as a continuous signal
    Different copies of otherwise identical works can be distinguished
    Quote Quote  
  14. I think it's a good move by the video industry to create copy protection in the audio, but I still have worries. What if someone uses anydvd to extract the blu ray disc onto their computer, demuxes the streams, then records the audio via an aver device at 256kbps or from the original bluray disc or applian's replay music wav from the extracted files. Then muxes the alternate audio with the original video file with a timeshift in avidemux to adjust for the different lengths of audio and video. I am worried that this copy protection will fail then. I think the video industry should think of stronger copy protection mechanisms for the audio and the video. This makes me feel like a criminal just for wanting to dvr my sports shows, I get lumped in the same category as you guys who are trying to make illegal copies of movies? Just save enough money to buy two discs if you are afraid one will get worn out. How hard is that?
    Last edited by ezcapper; 16th Jul 2015 at 22:56.
    Quote Quote  
  15. Cinavia survives reencoding, even through an analog stage. Unless you reencode at bitrates that are unlistenable. It also survives minor pitch and/or length changes like you might get with a PAL/NTSC conversion.
    Quote Quote  
  16. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Cinavia survives reencoding, even through an analog stage. Unless you reencode at bitrates that are unlistenable. It also survives minor pitch and/or length changes like you might get with a PAL/NTSC conversion.
    Wonderful, they did a good job then! now as long as the cinavia is maintained in google play streams they are good to go and it will be impossible or atleast extremely difficult to create a cinavia free copy of a store bought blu ray disc.
    Last edited by ezcapper; 16th Jul 2015 at 23:42.
    Quote Quote  
  17. Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Search Comp PM
    My unit is tiny. If I didn't have the possibility of shifting the contents of my discs onto a server I wouldn't be buying them at all, much less two copies of each.

    It's inconceivable that people don't just meekly accept being told to lie down and die isn't it?
    Quote Quote  
  18. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Since ezcapper keeps suggesting methods that he thinks might be used to defeat or circumvent Cinavia, I wouldn't take his cheerleading for the technology seriously.

    I would have thought that by now everyone who rips movies or downloads them illegally would have made the adjustment to using a media player or PC to play their copies instead of a Blu-Ray player, and there would be no interest in this topic anymore, but it keeps popping up.
    Quote Quote  
  19. Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Search Comp PM
    Is there any evidence of Cinavia detection being implemented outside of Direct Disc playback?
    Quote Quote  
  20. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
    Is there any evidence of Cinavia detection being implemented outside of Direct Disc playback?
    Some people have claimed that their Blu-Ray player detects Cinavia in media files. I have seen speculation that licensed Blu-Ray player software would as well. I haven't tested either theory myself.

    I don't personally care at all about Cinavia at all because I don't rip commercial discs or download illegal copies. I don't even know if anything in my small collection includes it.
    Quote Quote  
  21. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    West Texas
    Search PM
    Arcsoft TMT 6 would detect Cinavia in media files, regardless of whether they were played from a disc or from hard drives or usb drives. It is no longer supported or available for sale.
    Quote Quote  
  22. Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Search Comp PM
    Just trying to figure out what the intention is.

    Is this aimed at bootlegs or is it an overarching "though shalt not..."
    Quote Quote  
  23. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
    Just trying to figure out what the intention is.

    Is this aimed at bootlegs or is it an overarching "though shalt not..."
    I can't speak to intent, but it seems clear that bootleg discs and ISO downloads would make the best targets. One is already on a disc and the other is going to be burned to a disc, in most cases. If someone has a disc, they will probably want to use a Blu-Ray player to watch it.
    Quote Quote  
  24. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Adding Cinavia to each track degrades the audio from 2-4%....Of my collection of bluray movies, and that I've ripped and replayed on my computer with PDVD, I have not had any bluray rip that tripped the 20 min Cinavia message..... Unsure why, because I have a few new releases that should have it in...I have run into a few fake movies purchased off the Internet from big names.....first time I had to send back to seller and then second time from straight from Internet BIG NAME. I complained and wrote a review for others not to buy it. Of course the review I left was not approved for posting and they offered me a discount back to keep the discs...I guess I'll buy my movies from Big Box stores instead of over the Internet.
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads

Visit our sponsor! Try DVDFab and backup Blu-rays!