Should I upgrade my VCR from a JVC Hr-S9911u to an older

[vhelp]

gshelley61,

Thanks for responding

I wanted to touch on a few things that have been on my mind for a long
time now, and I wanted to get in writing before I forget it, again.

** EP mode recording
** Chroma Crosstalk (or, Salt n Pepper) -- noise

I realize that the JVC SR-W5U is a pricey unit, though I was not
intending on purchasing one, if the price was, say $100 ebay dollars, I
would probably seek one out and get it. Oh well. Anyway.

In the mean time, I'll continue to use my current vcr: JVC S-VHS HR-S3910U
because it has proven its weight in more than enough times since I first
got it, back in 2001.

Exploring EP mode recording..

This is not an "everybody use" feature. We all think that this is a poor
quality mode to record in, and yet, it is featured in every unit. However,
there are some units that take this and go further with it. My vcr does
just that. And, (in short) I learnt its advantages and have since, use it.

True, on most vcr's with EP recording techknowlegy, the quality is lower
than SP (standard) mode recording. In short, the recorded video is on
the noisy side. This is true to an extent. But, I'll say this, (at least
for *MY* unit) noise can be your friend, if you realize that its
not really noise, pending one's unit and its features -- speaking mainly
for my unit's capability and my experience with it.

Personally and fwiw, I use mine in EP (6hr) mode, using the enhanced feature
of 400+ lines resolution that it records. I found it's sweet spot and have
sence, been taken advantage of it. The recording quality is actually quite
good in this setup, even for EP mode, and on standard grade tapes, Fuji brand.

There's more to this setup, but I'll spare you the details, for now. All's
I can say, is that in this mode and setup, the quality is quite good for my
home personal use. And, I record pretty much everything in this EP mode.

I was mearly curious about the JVC SR-W5U vcr and the Toshiba D-R4 dvd
recorder and their relationship to quality and performances. Thank you for
enlighting me with the truth in your last response. It has cleared up some
things, to me.

Chroma Crosstalk..
However, I'm still not convinced that the SR-W5U is as you say it is,
in terms of the quality you itterated to me. What concirns me most is the
chroma crosstalk (CC) This is a sensitive area regarding quality of a given
video source.

My Analog Cable source is riddled with CC, though some may see or know it as
Salt n Pepper (SnP) I feel that they are closely related. That is, Analog
Cable and Commercially Recorded video on VHS tapes. Whenever you capture
from a vcr (a commercial vhs video) or Analog Cable, you always get CC/SnP,
when the capture device is pc based.

So, in working with some external devices, I have found that the noise (CC/SnP)
is reduced, meaning that they are aware of it and are slowly doing something
about it. I have an ADS DVD Xpress is an external Hardware MPEG-2 capture
device. It has some hardware filter capabilities. When turned on, they help to
eliminate (CC/SnP) noise. My Polaroid DRM-2001G dvd recorder seems to
help eliminate this noise as well, though I have not spent much time analying
this unit in this area of quality. I just know that it does a very good
job with VHS sources.

Now, I haven't quite identified the exact cause of this phenomina, CC/SnP,
though I do have a theory that "frequency" may have something to do with it.

In the mean time, it seems that there may be some processes that help to reduce
or eleminate it, and that they may only be available on certain units.. ie,
vcr's and (some) dvd recorders.

Therefore, it would seem that the most important feature of all for a vcr to
have, is Chroma Crosstalk elimination. Then, everything else, dvd recorder;
capture card; etc., would be secondary, in terms of picture quality.

And, if the JVC SR-W5U truly does have Chroma Crosstalk reduction
built-in, (as the pic's on page 2 seem to demonstrate) then this is the only vcr
to date that has such a feature. If this be true, then so far, this is the
only unit with such a highly-required feature. More demonstrations may help
to prove this units craftmenship and necessity.. ie, throwing in a different
dvd recorder; and/or capture card; and might bring evidence of this unique
capability to light.

In the mean time, I'd be interested in seeing other VCR's perform similarly
in this area.

Cheers :P

From the Video Workstation of,
-vhelp 4136

[CCEncoder]

The higher quality consumer and "prosumer" machines, that aren't too old, will probably continue to have good parts availability for some time. I've had a couple of Panasonic AG-1970 and Sony SVO-2000 machines serviced recently at a local repair facility with no problems.

Yep, that's the store-bought VHS release of Titanic those caps were made from...

I will try similar footage with my less expensive SLV-r1000 and compare it... I will probably lost since yours tend to look like DV. I too have El Titanic.

PS. If I can find it.

[CCEncoder]

I can assure you that of all the high end S-VHS VCR's I've tried, none had quite as good of a picture as the SR-W5U. The closest one I remember was a Panasonic broadcast S-VHS machine that I had for awhile... the AG-7750. That one was pretty darn good. I've had several nice AG-1970 units (they preceded the AG-1980)... they were OK, but did not handle chroma noise very well. The JVC machines with TBC/DNR have the best chroma noise suppression from what I've seen.

Are you saying then the AG-7750 has better chroma reduction then the AG-1980 and better overall playback quality? Does it have have Uninterrupted Sync.... do you know if the AG-1980 do?
Why some VCRs have TBC if they still have interrupted syncs which causes the same issue right?

[CCEncoder]

The half-frame TBC in the 1980 may be more robust than the line TBC in the JVC, or is simply able to better deal with the rather severe timebase errors your tape has.

Why do you say the 1980 has half when it has full frame.

[CCEncoder]

I've been hawking Ebay for a 1980 unit for the last several weeks..It's just impossible to find one under the $300 range...

There doesn't seem to be any miracles out there...

On a side note, why do the Panasonic AG-7650,7750 models seem to be relatively cheaper??
They seem more robust than the 1980, and seem to have nice manual controls.

This pro-jvc guy says the AG-7750 is closest to the JVC W-VHS that captures in HD quality so the AG-1980 is perhaps just more expensive because of its reputation not that it is better then its successor in terms of playback quality and chroma noise reduction.

[Whuntmore]

Has anyone looked into the JVC SR-V101US? It lists under pro machines, and I'm not looking forward to seeing the list price, but looks like it might compare to the HR-S9911u.

Any comments?

[classfour]

I just cleaned the heads on my JVC-HRS7500, and the playback was near-DVD. I will admit the quality of the tape was quite nice - HQ on a pro deck - and a straight capture through a Hauppauge card. It must've worked well: the darn thing was curling at the top before the cleaning! LOL

[JoseD]

@classfour

That's interesting, can you tell us what did you use to clean the video heads ? I recently tryed to clean them on my FS200 (Eurepean consumer version of the 1980, highly expensive a t the time it came out) and it was a comlete nightmare, after cleaning the image had disappeared completely ...

[orsetto]

Whuntmore:

Has anyone looked into the JVC SR-V101US? It lists under pro machines, and I'm not looking forward to seeing the list price, but looks like it might compare to the HR-S9911u.

Any comments?

The JVC SR-V101US has been posted about by several members here on the forum, I don't remember all the details but you can do a search for the model number and pull up some threads. Consensus seems to be its OK but not quite as good as the 9911 and other models (there is some debate as to how complete its TBC and DNR features are).

Given it is going for upwards of $300 new, check out other alternatives. Many of us have found great success using the less-known, less-popular "D-VHS" recorders which were originally designed to record digital HDTV. Most of them will play standard VHS and SVHS beautifully, in some cases better than what you can achieve with the older SVHS models (the DVHS units are much newer with updated TBC/DNR to optimize display of regular VHS on big, flat-panel televisions, or into DVD encoders.)

I have posted several times about the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U DVHS, which I am very happy with. It has killer TBC and DNR circuits, and adjustable/defeatable sharpness control. It cleans up chroma noise and cable TV garbage noise on my VHS tapes like you wouldn't believe. Incredible machine, sells for $150-$400 depending on used/new and how much demand there is the day you want to buy one. The JVC SR-VD400 DVHS is reported to be just as good and sells in the same price range. Either unit is available new, or if used is likely to be in better shape than an older JVC SVHS deck. And either will blow the socks off a Panasonic AG1970 or 1980: the 1970 is not in the same league at all and the 1980 is rather over-rated. The Pannys were beautiful machines in their day, with a very "pro" operational feel, but TBC/DNR performance is better on the newer DVHS units.

[lordsmurf]

The SR-V10U (version prior to the SR-V101US) is pretty much identical to the HR-S7900, which was not too different from the HR-S9600-9900 units. I've got one an SR-V10U as a backup / extra to my 9800.

Some of those D-VHS units has synchronization beyond what the S-VHS machines did. But you pay for it. I'd buy one if they weren't so crazy expensive ($400+ when I see them) -- often in "as is" condition (abused store displays). I have lousy luck with some things. The 30 hours of S-VHS quality on a D-VHS tape is a nice bonus.

[orsetto]

pijetro:

On a side note, why do the Panasonic AG-7650,7750 models seem to be relatively cheaper??
They seem more robust than the 1980, and seem to have nice manual controls.

On the off chance anyone is still interested in this question, the AG-7650 and 7750 sell for less than other machines on the second-hand (eBay) market for a few reasons:

1. As pro-market machines, they are twice the size of an AG-1980 and they weigh a ton: it costs a lot of money to ship these and its hard to guarantee they will arrive safely.

2. There is no awareness of them outside of post-production houses and TV stations: these were not available to the average consumer. When new, they sold for something like $3000 with the TBC option. No awareness means no one looks for them, no looking means no bidding.

3. They do not have tuners or timers: they can't record directly off-air in a pinch when you need an extra recording device. You'd be surprised how many people get turned off by that one: even if its never used, people like having at least a timer option, if not a tuner.

4. Finally, for those who know how these "pro" machines are actually constructed, they can be undesirable for a lot of common "household" VHS recordings. They often use pro-standard wide heads for SP record-playback, these heads are optimized to use up as much tape area as possible. This is ideal in a pro environment where all tapes will have been recorded with such heads: it maximizes image quality and tape interchange. But it is NOT good for playing tapes made on consumer machines: home VHS units (even the AG-1980) use much narrower compromise heads to allow all sorts of tricks in SP/EP playback. If these tapes are played in a "true pro" deck with wide heads, those heads pick up as much tape background noise as they do recorded video, making for a much noisier grainier output. (I do not know for sure that is the case with the AG-7655-7750 but it is true of many similar pro-level units I've played with over the last 20 years. It can be hard to verify until you get your hands on the unit.)

[KeepItSimple]

There's a good reason to find a Panasonic AG-7650/7750 if have a certain vintage of tapes: It can play back vhs video recorded in (dolby) stereo on the linear track in actual stereo. That's the lo-fi stereo they had before VHS-Hi-Fi. We loved it at the time! For a while after Hi-Fi came out VCRs had both Hi-Fi and Stereo on linear track but soon they went to mono on the linear track.

SO if you have those stereo tapes around and want to get the stereo back you can get one of those industrial strength VCRs.
I did. Got a 7650 a while back but I haven't used it yet. It's a big heavy monster.

I also had a Panasonic AG-1970. Loved it until I wore it out.

My current daily driver VHS is a JVC SR-V10U and that works very well for everything except stereo on the linear tracks.

[Jedi27]

Hi folks,

I just wanted to say thanks for all the information in this
thread.

I've ordered the JVC VD400US from B&H, plus a 2 way
tape rewinder/cleaner (is the latter needed?). I thought it
would be good to clean the tapes prior to transferring?
Does cleaning the tape do damage to the actual tape?

I tried to find the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U, but I can only
find 2 on Amazon. I might spring for one of those, but
I'm waiting for a colleague to come back from vacation
to ask where he gets his machines.

I think it's time to stock a few extra VCRs in the backroom
as I'm finding quality VCRs hard to come by, but as LordSmurf
said in another post, the demand for transferring is steadily
growing. I've been getting busier and not only busier, but
larger projects as in entire family libraries of tapes instead
of 1 or 2 tapes.

Thanks again folks,
Cheers,
Keebler

[sphinx99]

I wanted to chime in with some thoughts--I read this forum religiously until about 16 months ago and in the meantime have been able to take up a fair amount of VHS and SVHS digitization.

My primary deck is a HR-S9911U which has proven to be fantastic. Let it be said that this is a tin box deck. Mine was new from Amazon (one of the last "new" ones sold) and has worked well, however I am under no illusions that it might simply die one fine day. I share the impressions of several others in the forum. The line TBC works wonders. The DNR is very good but not world class, but it's something you have to live with in order to access the TBC, which means you're sometimes losing detail.

I got a AG1980 in good condition for a great price. It was pointless looking on eBay for one, then I happened to stumble upon one locally. The build quality is better than the JVC however there are plenty of $35 VCRs at Best Buy that feel better built (externally) than the 9911U. Picture definitely reflects that of a device that doesn't try to clean up the image much. There is noise but also detail. The picture is grainy, but it's also pleasantly free of digital artifacts. That said, overall the JVC seems to give me a better result and only stumbles on certain not-so-great tapes. The Panasonic pretty much plays every single tape I've given to it, just not quite with the output quality of the JVC, so it indeed does make for an excellent backup should you stumble across one. The JVC is much, much better playing back poor quality old VHS tapes. With SVHS, the 1980 fares much much better.

I also have a SLV-R1000 which IMO produces a sharper image than either the JVC or Panasonic! Unfortunately no TBC that I can see, the picture does degrade on lower quality tapes as a result, and I never jumped into the external TBC/procamp game. So it's sitting powered off and collecting dust at the moment.

Lastly I'd like to add what I feel is by far my best deck, but for SVHS sources only: Sanyo GVR-S950. This was a Sanyo pro edit deck. Aside from being aesthetically amazing (in my opinion, anyway) its SVHS output is simply superb. There is no TBC or DNR that I can see, however it's managed to give me sharper, more stable pictures on decent SVHS tapes than any other deck I've tried. It gets virtually no mention on forums, here or elsewhere, but it's something of a gem that even enthusiasts often haven't heard of...

[ptiinc]

Although I have not had an AG-1980, I have been in posession of several Pansonic AG-1970 units. They are very well made recorder/editors with built in half-frame TBC's. They also have separately switchable video noise reduction. The 1970 is certainly a fine prosumer machine, but the picture is not superior to the high end JVC 9000 series consumer S-VHS VCR's of the same era. The video noise reduction in the JVC's definitely work better than in the Panasonic units, especially on chroma noise.

BTW, the 1980 (which is nearly identical to the 1970, just newer) is fairly expensive to acquire on eBay. They generally go for more than $400, usually in the $500 to $600 range. A used 1970 in good shape will run about the same as a used 9000 series JVC.

Another S-VHS machine that people look for is the Sony SLV-R1000 (and the SVO-2000, which is the prosumer version). These units do not have a built in TBC, but have a pretty impressive and very sharp playback picture. Still, I prefer the JVC 9000 series machines overall, especially the HR-S9600 and the HR-S9800. They are probably the two best built of the line.

You seem to know your JVC'S..I,m looking @a JVC HR-S9500U..on ebay right now' do you have any advise for me on this machine ? Thanks'

[jman98]

Advice? Well, in general most of us have for quite some time now stopped recommending that people buy those old "recommended" VCRs. Most are in abominable shape, having already been used up by people who years ago figured out that they wanted to do this. Sellers may sell machines that don't work at all, barely work now but won't work in another month of heavy use, or may work fine for a little while and then suddenly develop problems. Repairs are EXPENSIVE and it's very debatable except among a few diehards whether it really makes all that much of a difference or not. Many new people who want to do this have unrealistic expectations. Expecting your video captures to look like DVDs or BluRays is not realistic. You could always buy a great old VCR that actually works fine and then have a complete and utter crap method for capturing the video and doing something with it, which puts the whole idea of using the "great" VCR into question. Are you willing to roll the dice on this, knowing that it may not help that much over a cheaper alternative in better shape and it may not last anywhere near as long? What's your workflow and capture device for using this VCR?

gshelley61 last posted over 3 years ago, by the way.

[Brad]

You seem to know your JVC'S..I,m looking @a JVC HR-S9500U..on ebay right now' do you have any advise for me on this machine? Thanks'

F--, please see me after class. P.S. is everything okay at home?