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  1. Member
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    I want to setup a system that I can use both for capturing 1080p NTSC from satellite receiver, and to use my media player, that upscales SD to HD, to convert some SD files I have.

    I have already tried software to go from SD to HD, using avisynth filters to improve the image. The results were reasonable. But I'm curious on how good upscaled SD images look when I feed them from my media player. They can easily pass for original HD on a 1080P 50" plasma TV.
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    I'm not sure what to look for, as many HD capture devices are for game boxes.

    This one seems to be popular unit:

    http://www.hauppauge.com/site/webstore2/webstore_hdpvr2-1512.html

    But it seems to have some limitations:

    1) You can't choose your frame-rate, it seems to record only @ 30. I also need 25.

    2) I'm not sure if you can set your bitrate for high quality.

    Will I also need a splitter to bypass HDCP protection?

    What other converters should I look for? I prefer external boxes, if possible.
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    As I recall, by default the Hauppauge HD-PVR 2 captures at the resolution and frame rate it receives, except for 1080p50 and 1080p60. The current specs at Hauppauge's website don't say it supports either 1080p25 or 1080p30 input and capture, but I think they used to say that it did. Maybe someone else can confirm what is true. The specs also don't say it supports 1080p24 input, which some satellite services can provide. I think that is correct.

    Few PC capture devices capture 1080p24 as 1080p24. The only external devices I can remember that do are the two Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle models (one for USB 3.0 and one for Thunderbolt), which are finicky and use software to encode. They also capture capture 1080p25 and 1080p30.

    Yes you need a splitter able to remove HDCP.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 4th Jul 2016 at 13:48. Reason: correction
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  4. Member
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    I never said I wanted to capture 1080p24. Why should I?
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  5. Member
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    Originally Posted by carlmart View Post
    I never said I wanted to capture 1080p24. Why should I?
    I know 29.97/30 fps is typical for TV in Brazil. I thought 1080p25 might be a typo.

    Since so many videophiles prefer to watch movies at 24fps, I figured Brazil could have some commercial satellite movie channels broadcasting film-rate progressive video, as is the case in N. America.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 5th Jul 2016 at 10:18.
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  6. Member
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    Yes, you'right: Brazil is a 29.97/30fps country. Sat is also NTSC. Many people think this is a PAL country, but the PAL here is different version of NTSC, not European PAL. And it's used only for broadcasting.

    But I also tune Latin America channels on another dish, and sometimes it's 25 fps.

    The question is I do not intend to use this converter for sat conversion only, but also to capture HDMI output from my media player, which upscales SD to HD.

    From what I have seen, this hardware upscaling seems to produce better visual results on my 50" TV than through software upscale, using filters and all.

    Another question: game capture boxes can be used for sat capture too through HDMI?
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  7. Member
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    Originally Posted by carlmart View Post
    Yes, you'right: Brazil is a 29.97/30fps country. Sat is also NTSC. Many people think this is a PAL country, but the PAL here is different version of NTSC, not European PAL. And it's used only for broadcasting.

    But I also tune Latin America channels on another dish, and sometimes it's 25 fps.

    The question is I do not intend to use this converter for sat conversion only, but also to capture HDMI output from my media player, which upscales SD to HD.

    From what I have seen, this hardware upscaling seems to produce better visual results on my 50" TV than through software upscale, using filters and all.

    Another question: game capture boxes can be used for sat capture too through HDMI?
    The game capture boxes can be used for capturing the HDMI output from a satellite receiver, but typically these devices don't mention support for 1080p25 input or 1080p30 input in their specs. Capturing 1080p25 or 1080p30 input isn't important to gamers. They care about capturing 1080p50, 1080p60, 1080i, 720p, 480p, 576p, 480i or 576i input. Obviously there is some overlap with common broadcast resolutions and frame rates, but not complete coverage.

    The specs for capture devices used for capturing HDMI video from cameras, like the BMI Shuttle, list input at 1080p24, 1080p25 or 108op30, because it is common for HD cameras to use those resolutions and frame rates.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 5th Jul 2016 at 11:13.
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  8. Originally Posted by carlmart View Post
    But I'm curious on how good upscaled SD images look when I feed them from my media player.
    Just look at the same video on your TV. That's how it will look.

    Originally Posted by carlmart View Post
    They can easily pass for original HD on a 1080P 50" plasma TV.
    No, they don't look at all like real HD. The picture is all blurry and there's no detail.

    Originally Posted by carlmart View Post
    I'm not sure what to look for, as many HD capture devices are for game boxes.
    The only difference is the "game" capture devices include special cables for connecting to game boxes. They work just as well for capturing cable, satellite, and other HDMI TV sources (HDCP issues aside).
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  9. Member
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    No, they don't look at all like real HD. The picture is all blurry and there's no detail.
    Sorry to disagree. We talked about this same matter some time ago, and if I remember you said exactly the same words.

    Cable and sat TV over here is not all HD. Usually we have the same channel in SD and HD versions, so I can check on the differences. Yes, looking at the same image you will certainly see the difference, and it certainly looks blurrier and lacking in detail. But not always.

    Until about 7 years ago, I rented all my DVDs from a local shop. I started downloading things because the DVD versions that were released here were usually 1.33 in ratio, instead of 1.70, 1.85 or 2.3 as the original films. Release options were based on their policy that people didn't like black bars up and below.

    When I found that the correct DVD versions could be found on the web, I started downloading them. They were SD types.

    Then HD versions started to appear, and sometimes that was the only version available. It was when I started to use Avisynth tools to make my DVDs, converting the mkv files onto VOB ones. By that time I bought my first 42" 720p plasma and a DVD player that could upscale SD to HD, so it had an HDMI output.

    It was a startling experience running my old DVDs and see how images were improved through the HDMI output when compared to S-video.

    At the same time I started using my laptop, through VGA, to watch some HD series directly. First chance to see HD images as they really looked in 1280 x 720.

    Then I bought my first LG BD player, which could also play mkv files. You could also input a mem stick, so one day I did the following test. DVD made from HD original file versus the HD original file on a mem stick. The LG also upscaled the DVD files. That was the surprise. I didn't know what the hardware did, but the DVD images looked great. They cheated the eye to a point where most images "looked" like HD.

    Now, I am a film professional. Went to film school in the mid '70s, and was trained in film production. I am a director, DP and editor, usually performing those things on my films. Then went through the several stages we had in video, usually trying to make video get the resolution, detail and contrast you had in film.

    I can't be easily fooled in image or audio, but "fake look" I get from home hardware upscaling SD seems better than using software. That's what I want to investigate. To do that I need to capture the HDMI output of media and BD players.

    In 2009 I shot a musical doc with my HDV Sony Z1 (1080i/60i), and used my 16:9 Sony PDX10 (480i/60i) on some sequences. I mixed both cameras on two musical sequences. Following the advice I got here and elsewhere, I used Avisynth filters and FFMPEG to upscale the SD to 1080p, with some enhancing filters. In close-ups the results were very good, but in mid-size shots no so much.

    I have to confess I never saw the original SD shots upscaled through the media player, but I believe that's in order now.

    What or why do I need the best upscaling I can get now? For two things:

    1) To blow-up some SD sequences I shot with the Sony Z1 in 576i/50i. I will keep the 4:3 frame.

    2) To upscale some home DVDs which were never released in HD.

    Sorry for the very long introduction.
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