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  1. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc View Post


    I could actually use any program now, since, like I said, TMPGENC now recognizes all frames. However, it's absolutely ridiculous that I have to re-encode everything that I record with the Hauppauge. Like...seriously?? That's just insane!
    It's not "insane" in my perspective - The files aren't blu-ray compliant to begin with - they never made that claim. If you didn't need blu-ray , you wouldn't need to re-encode it. The videoredo output files play fine. You wouldn't need multiavchd, tsmuxer, etc... thus no problem.

    Also, I tried re-encoding the first 30 seconds of that file last night and leaving the rest "as is." Every program that I tried to play it back on went absolutely nuts.
    How did you do that ? cut off the 1st bit, re-encode the first bit, then append ? how did you append ? what programs and method exactly ?

    If you didn't segment on IDR boundaries, it's expected that every program will complain
    Actually, that's incorrect. From their product page, it specifically states "Make Blu-ray compatible AVCHD recordings, so you can burn your TV recordings onto a standard DVD disc (up to 2 hours of video at 5MBits/sec) and playback on Blu-ray disc players."
    http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

    I guess the question now is whether the other, more recent releases are TRULY BD compliant. And I guess I should get busy re-encoding everything I've ever recorded

    With regards to the appending and re-encoding, I re-encoded with TMPGENC, using the same settings as the original file. Then I used VRD to combine the files.
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  2. I guess their definition of "blu-ray compatible" is very lax... Not to mention many BD players cannot even play "AVCHD" on DVD5/9 media . Some manufacturers even issue firmware on purpose to reduce compatibilty (you often have to find old firmware versions)

    So vrd couldn't combine the files properly ? What does "absolutely nuts" mean exactly ?
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  3. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    I guess their definition of "blu-ray compatible" is very lax... Not to mention many BD players cannot even play "AVCHD" on DVD5/9 media . Some manufacturers even issue firmware on purpose to reduce compatibilty (you often have to find old firmware versions)

    So vrd couldn't combine the files properly ? What does "absolutely nuts" mean exactly ?
    Sorry for not being specific. On the very last frame of the first section, it completely froze while the audio continued.
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  4. @digitalfreaknyc

    I know you from originaltrilogy forums and I'm familiar with some of your releases
    You were already making some BD25 discs before, were those actually AVCHD? I think there's no need to recode everything. Maybe BD players that can play Hauppauge files don't care if the your BD is spec complaint, maybe they ignore it and play it anyway.
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  5. Originally Posted by badyu17 View Post
    @digitalfreaknyc

    I know you from originaltrilogy forums and I'm familiar with some of your releases
    You were already making some BD25 discs before, were those actually AVCHD? I think there's no need to recode everything. Maybe BD players that can play Hauppauge files don't care if the your BD is spec complaint, maybe they ignore it and play it anyway.
    Thanks, man.

    Yeah, everything I've been recording in HD has been from the Hauppauge. I've had it for years. However, this 3-frame-drop has driven me absolutely nuts. It's always there, whether it's noticeable or not. For me, being a perfectionist, it's always noticeable and it's like someone turning the knife every time I see it.

    Up until now, I had no idea what the problem was. In speaking with people here and now on AVS forums as well, it turns out that the Hauppauge 1212 doesn't make 1080i files that are Blu-ray compliant, although they will play. Apparently the 720p files are totally fine but on the 1080i files, the encoder uses a GOP size above the blu-ray standard (the 1212 GOP size is 64, while the blu-ray maximum is 60). The biggest (and only problem, it seems) is this 3-frame-jump and the only way to get rid of it is to re-encode, as I'm being told, OR to not burn
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  6. I don't think any capture card with h.264 chip can produce Blu-Ray compliant files. There are settings for x264 that are Blu-Ray specific if you really want full compatibility.

    Actually, for 1212 GOP size is 32 for non-IDR I frame (with additional IDR frame placed every 128 frames). I think for Blu-Ray GOP is shorter, something like 24 or 12 frames. Did you try to replace m2ts from TSMuxer with the one created with VRD?
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  7. Originally Posted by badyu17 View Post
    I don't think any capture card with h.264 chip can produce Blu-Ray compliant files. There are settings for x264 that are Blu-Ray specific if you really want full compatibility.

    Actually, for 1212 GOP size is 32 for non-IDR I frame (with additional IDR frame placed every 128 frames). I think for Blu-Ray GOP is shorter, something like 24 or 12 frames. Did you try to replace m2ts from TSMuxer with the one created with VRD?
    I know that the Colossus 2 (which is the internal Hauppauge unit) creates compliant videos. I'm waiting to hear back on the other options before I purchase.

    And, no, I haven't done it yet. I'd be screwed when it comes to chapter stops though, no?
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  8. Chapters are placed in mpls playlists so I think not but I'm not sure.

    As for Colossus 2, they use same chip as in HD-PVR 2 and I have HD-PVR 2 and I don't think they are compliant. Maybe they think compliant as AVCHD?
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  9. Originally Posted by badyu17 View Post
    Chapters are placed in mpls playlists so I think not but I'm not sure.

    As for Colossus 2, they use same chip as in HD-PVR 2 and I have HD-PVR 2 and I don't think they are compliant. Maybe they think compliant as AVCHD?
    See here:
    http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/1294938-hauppauge-colossus-hd-...l#post27646489

    Been talking to that gent, who had the problem with the 1212 and no longer has it. I guess I should be going with that Colossus.
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  10. It's possible to re-encode the first bit and append. But you have to do it properly . It's difficult for most people because you need to use command line programs. I posted how to do it in another thread if you want more details. The key is to use a different sps-id value for appended segments and to join binary segments (which had been split on IDR boundaries) . You can even use different encoding settings (it not necessary to match settings, because it's a different true GOP, not mini-GOP; but you do have to match rough bitrates for BD scenarios, because of the possiblity of buffer underflow). This works 100% of the time - I've never seen it fail. It works on yours as well
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  11. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    It's possible to re-encode the first bit and append. But you have to do it properly . It's difficult for most people because you need to use command line programs. I posted how to do it in another thread if you want more details. The key is to use a different sps-id value for appended segments and to join binary segments (which had been split on IDR boundaries) . You can even use different encoding settings (it not necessary to match settings, because it's a different true GOP, not mini-GOP; but you do have to match rough bitrates for BD scenarios, because of the possiblity of buffer underflow). This works 100% of the time - I've never seen it fail. It works on yours as well
    I guess that leaves my only option, unfortunately. I just tried the disc with the file simply replaced and it didn't work at all. I just get a black screen with no audio.

    I'm so depressed.
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  12. @digitalfreaknyc

    Yeah you are right, spec allows 60 frames for 2 sec GOP. In HD-PVR 2 encoder uses 45 so I'll have to believe that guy. However I don't know much about how good is TMPGenc, never used it for blu-ray authoring.
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  13. The spec allows 60 frame 2sec GOP, ONLY if specific requirements are met . For example ,the maxrate and buffer size have to be < 15000 , and L4.0 for the 2sec rule. Otherwise 1sec rules still apply, including 1 sec GOP .

    @digitalfreaknyx - start reading about command line applications . You always hear people complaining about various "glitches" between the append points at the "seams" , but that method works flawlessly everytime. It's been around for years (10 ?) ever since sps-id was introduced into x264 . Unfortunately it's quite involved and it seems nobody has made a GUI around it
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  14. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    The spec allows 60 frame 2sec GOP, ONLY if specific requirements are met . For example ,the maxrate and buffer size have to be < 15000 , and L4.0 for the 2sec rule. Otherwise 1sec rules still apply, including 1 sec GOP .

    @digitalfreaknyx - start reading about command line applications . You always hear people complaining about various "glitches" between the append points at the "seams" , but that method works flawlessly everytime. It's been around for years (10 ?) ever since sps-id was introduced into x264 . Unfortunately it's quite involved and it seems nobody has made a GUI around it
    Hey poisondeathray, I actually found out about sps-id thanks to you, I think but that method is not flawless if you mix x264 part with some h.264 streams made by some hardware encoders even if you match most settings. I tried it few times and it's partially successful. Players kinda have problems around spliced part. For x264 joined with x264 (with different settings and version) everything works perfectly. I agree that it's a great trick to know when using x264 cli.

    As for BD spec I think that for Colossus 2 those rules are respected. On their site they now claim 12 Mb/s for maximum avg. bitrate. In HD-PVR 2 it's 14 Mb/s. I doubt their buffer values violate the rules.
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  15. Originally Posted by badyu17 View Post

    Hey poisondeathray, I actually found out about sps-id thanks to you, I think but that method is not flawless if you mix x264 part with some h.264 streams made by some hardware encoders even if you match most settings. I tried it few times and it's partially successful. Players kinda have problems around spliced part. For x264 joined with x264 (with different settings and version) everything works perfectly. I agree that it's a great trick to know when using x264 cli.
    Can you upload a sample that fails ? I've looked for one for a long time , HW encoders and different SW encoders included . In many respects , most HW encodes are "easier" because they conform to 1 set of rules, and usually fixed everything, GOP size, etc...

    If you have something / a HW source that consistently fails, then it might be possible to identify why and code a fix
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  16. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by badyu17 View Post

    Hey poisondeathray, I actually found out about sps-id thanks to you, I think but that method is not flawless if you mix x264 part with some h.264 streams made by some hardware encoders even if you match most settings. I tried it few times and it's partially successful. Players kinda have problems around spliced part. For x264 joined with x264 (with different settings and version) everything works perfectly. I agree that it's a great trick to know when using x264 cli.
    Can you upload a sample that fails ? I've looked for one for a long time , HW encoders included . In many respects , most HW encodes are "easier" because they conform to 1 set of rules, and usually fixed everything, GOP size, etc...

    If you have something / a HW source that consistently fails, then it might be possible to identify why and code a fix
    Yeah, I'll try to find a sample, maybe I didn't do something correctly. Would love if it was possible
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  17. ok thanks

    The most common cause of "failure" is misidentified IDR boundaries. If you 've made sure you've cut correctly , it should work

    For example, on digitalfreaknyx's sample, there are a few "i" frames which are likely candidates to cut on, but if you cut on those, it won't work.
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