8mm > VHS > PC capturing or signal issues

[s25ttl]

Dear VideoHelp community,

this site has been an invaluable source over all the years but I finally hit an issue that I cannot find a solution to, so I registered to ask for help from you experts.

I have captured a fair amount of VHS over the years and I'm OK with the results I can achieve. Capture hardware, software, or general quality are not the focus here.

Recently I was given a couple of VHS tapes to capture but I can't seem to decode(?) the video signal of those and the audio signal is glitching. The picture looks as if playing back a new empty VHS (black picture with some white lines glitching all over the screen). However, audio proves there is something on the tapes. If the problem was just tape degradation, I would expect to see a picture, even a lousy picture, but there is just nothing. I know for a fact that they were playable ~15 years back (on unknown equipment), so picture is/was on the tapes as well.

The tapes are mixed types, mostly SK HGX E240 & Kodak E240 and they all show the exact same symptoms. Playback was last tested on an LG S909LP SVHS deck that has been able to play back all kinds of PAL VHS just fine for years and continues to play other tapes.

Being from an 8mm/Hi8 source, would it be possible for the video signal to be non-VHS-compliant albeit being stored on a VHS? And if so, what hardware would be required to play them back? Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the original source format at all, only ever worked with VHS, DV, Digital8.

The original 8mm tapes have been erased in the 1990s so the VHS are the only existing source for these home videos. Lineage for the VHS: unknown 8mm camcorder (analog or Hi8) > unknown VCR > unknown transfer process > VHS. Sadly, this is as much info as I'm going to get.

Any help on getting this worked out is greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!
- s25ttl

UPDATE:
Received some more info and material: two of the VHS that I can't get a picture from have been captured before, probably around 2008. The captures show some tape wear and smaller playback issues but the sources seem OK-ish at the time. It looks like the captures have been done on standalone VHS/DVD machines so the parameters are far from optimal: constant bitrate, 2 hours of video crammed on a single-layer DVD,... and they still should be re-captured from source and digitally processed, if in any way possible.

[dellsam34]

If the dubbing done with non TBC VCR or there was no frame TBC in between the camcorder and the recording VCR there is nothing you can do here, The artifacts are baked in, But without some samples we don't know what you are talking about.

[s25ttl]

Should've made and attached screenshots right away.... sorry. This is the output of the LG VCR during playback:


[Attachment 69668 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 69669 - Click to enlarge]

While the white lines are moving around the screen in a random way, the sound playback is mostly OK with some distortion here and there. Could be due tape degradation but I don't know at this point.

there was no frame TBC in between the camcorder and the recording VCR there is nothing you can do here, The artifacts are baked in

It's not just artifacts, I literally can't get a real picture to show. From from the old DVDRs that surfaced recently I know it is/was on the VHS and should be playable one way or another. From degraded tape I would've expected bad picture quality and such, but not this. It seems like another kind of issue.

[dellsam34]

It is not really easy to troubleshoot a problem like this over a forum, I don't know the origin of the tapes, I don't know the condition of your VCR, I don't know how you are playing back the tapes and the connections used, I'm afraid that there is nothing I can help with here, If you would post a video sample with audio I may try to guess something.

[Xhumeka]

That looks very similar to some of my tapes that were used to record hifi audio only (from the radio), no video. Does the audio you hear match the "old DVDRs", or is there a chance someone recorded over the original recording?

[themaster1]

Perhaps it's a "S-vhs ET" signal on these tapes hence the black screen. Only a deck that support it will play correctly, not all s-vhs decks do.

[dellsam34]

No, S-VHS ET and S-VHS recordings would still produce a picture on a regular VCR, Albeit with streaks on bright spots.

[mammo1789]

Could it be virtualdub overlay in windows 10 instead of preview. Usually easycap do this if overlay is selected in virtualdub there is some "scrambled" picture similar to this, but without knowing the op setup can say for sure

[s25ttl]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I don't have a lot of time these days but I'll try to capture a sample of the video as soon as possible.

That looks very similar to some of my tapes that were used to record hifi audio only (from the radio), no video. Does the audio you hear match the "old DVDRs", or is there a chance someone recorded over the original recording?

From what I can tell it matches. Since the VHS are the "master" copies, they have not been recorded over - especially not after the 2008 transfer as the owners didn't have a VCR anymore and the tapes never left their home.

Could it be virtualdub overlay in windows 10 instead of preview. Usually easycap do this if overlay is selected in virtualdub there is some "scrambled" picture similar to this, but without knowing the op setup can say for sure

Don't think so. It's the same for VirtualDub and ffmpeg captures. Also the VHS screen and menu are shown so I'm positive it's the correct channel/output setup. Other VHS from my archive play fine, I even swapped tapes to verify.

[s25ttl]

To everyone who's been trying to help so far: I'm really sorry I haven't been able to provide a sample recording yet. Not much time these days. (by the way: any hoster/platform recommendations?)

The only thing I've been able to do is quick-check another tape from the same source and the picture was the same mess as before but this time it was clearly noticeable that the audio(playback) was too slow, irregular speeds at best. "Sticky" tape?! Mechanics of the VCR are OK, other tapes play back fine.

Makes me wonder: would "sticky" (slowly playing) tape show a picture at all or could it result in what the screenshots show?

Again, sorry for not providing the sample yet.

[dellsam34]

You can upload videos to this forum, see attachement, You may not excede 500MB size cap.

[s25ttl]

Bad news for me: I received some more tapes from another person and they show the same symptoms. Going back to my own tapes (some commercial, some not) they now started to show the same symptoms, even though they played back fine when testing before opening this thread. Must be a VCR issue then. Mechanics look fine during playback (opened VCR to check) so I'll have to find some repair service to have a look at the rest of the machine.

Expecting this to take weeks for repair or even getting a replacement VCR. In case anyone kept an eye on this thread it's probably not worth the wait.

Thanks again for all your input.