workflow from FCP7 to blu ray

[chlsy8]

Encore? - Yes, though it's still limited. Leawo? - IDK, probably not. There are others (incl. better ones), but they're all PC.

Scott

Thanks Scott!

I am giving the Leawo windows + mac drive a try - but it seems the Leawo won't support .264 files. Is it the same with Toast?

[smrpix]

it seems the Leawo won't support .264 files.

It says it does.
http://www.leawo.com/blu-ray-creator-mac/specs.html

[chlsy8]

[QUOTE=smrpix;2338136]

It says it does.
http://www.leawo.com/blu-ray-creator-mac/specs.html

That's strange - when I imported the files and opened the folder, it wont recognize both .264 and .ac3. Maybe it is not an updated version? Even if they recognize .264 how do I input the sound .ac3 file?

Now I am trying using the uncompressed .mov file (80gb) - it did recognize and now processing it - I suppose Leawo will do the compressing work? Are they good at it? I heard TOAST is terrible in compressing stuff.

Thanks Smrpix!

[smrpix]

I suppose Leawo will do the compressing work? Are they good at it?

You'll know in the next couple of hours.

[Cornucopia]

Often editing, compositing or authoring apps are geared to specific workflows. Because of this, they gear their input expectations also. Witness container support: some apps prefer things ALWAYS in containers, some apps prefer raw (aka elementary) streams, some prefer the video one way and the audio another, some accept both.

From what you are saying, if Leawo advertises h.264 support - which it does on both Mac+PC, for it not to accept yours can mean only one of 2 things:
1. It is currently a raw stream and Leawo needs it in a container (or vice-versa).
2. Your source file was encoded wrong/badly.

Assuming for the moment that it wasn't encoded badly, all you should need to do is encapsulate the raw stream in a container (aka Multiplex or "mux"). The reverse of this, should that ever be necessary is to Demultiplex/Demux. There are a ton of tools available at this site allowing you to do just that. Looks to me like Leawo expects h.264 in MP4 or MPEG-TS type containers. Proceed accordingly...

*************

Again and again I have said: Do NOT use Leawo nor Toast for compressing. Neither are optimal. They may not be "terrible" at it, but they aren't what you would be looking for WRT quality. Leawo does (mainly) authoring with a little burning on the side, Toast does burning with a little authoring on the side. Both only do encoding as an afterthought.

Seems to me, you're not taking suggestions well.

Scott

[chlsy8]

Hi Scott,

Which software do you recommend to place a container on the H.264 file? I do have a iCoolsoft video converter for mac, will that work? (edit: tried this, it doesn't recognize 264 file either, downloaded ffdshow and ffmpeg but don't know how to use it) Or maybe I should started from the beginning - after share with compressor from FCP7 - I should choose MP4 instead of H.264?

It's my second week to work on FCP and etc, sorry I might sound somehow retarded.

Thanks,
George

[chlsy8]

I suppose Leawo will do the compressing work? Are they good at it?

You'll know in the next couple of hours.

The .mov file I was using is uncompressed with 5.1 surrounding. The final blu ray that came out lost some of the sound tracks - I don't know why.

[smrpix]

There's actually nothing on Leawo's site to suggest 5.1 is supported. That's the kind of feature that usually gets heavily promoted. Can you get it to accept your current 5.1 AC3 without recompressing?

[chlsy8]

There's actually nothing on Leawo's site to suggest 5.1 is supported. That's the kind of feature that usually gets heavily promoted. Can you get it to accept your current 5.1 AC3 without recompressing?

I don't know how to import any kind of ac3 file. The only file I was able to input is the .mov uncompressed file I exported from FCP7 (HD+5.1)

[smrpix]

Frustrated your issues, I downloaded and installed the windows version of Leawo. It will not do what you want with menus, subtitles or audio. It is a toy. Use something else.

[chlsy8]

Frustrated your issues, I downloaded and installed the windows version of Leawo. It will not do what you want with menus, subtitles or audio. It is a toy. Use something else.

But the toast 12 didn't say it support .264 files.

http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/toast/titanium/#tab=3
Supported Input Formats:

Audio: AAC, AIFF, MP3, WAV, M4A, OGG, FLAC and Dolby® Digital AC-3
Video: AVCHD, AVCHD Lite, AVI, DivX Plus HD, DV, FLV and F4V for Adobe® Flash®, MJPEG, MOV, MKV, MPEG-1/2/4, VOB, VIDEO_TS folder, shared iMovie® projects, and EyeTV recordings
Photo: BMP, GIF. JPG, PDF, PSD, PNG, TIFF
Disc Images: ISO, BIN/CUE, IMG, DMG, CDR, NRG

[smrpix]

You can get 10 months of Encore for the price of Toast 12 pro, and it actually does what you want.

[chlsy8]

You can get 10 months of Encore for the price of Toast 12 pro, and it actually does what you want.

Is this the link? https://creative.adobe.com/plans
Does it recognize raw 264 files and also can do a menu as we discussed before?
Thanks so much for your help, smrpix!

[smrpix]

Yes. You need to choose Premiere Pro. Once you have a license you need to download Premiere CS6 which comes with Encore. It's convoluted, but it's probably the lowest-cost way to get you everything you're looking for.

[chlsy8]

Yes. You need to choose Premiere Pro. Once you have a license you need to download Premiere CS6 which comes with Encore. It's convoluted, but it's probably the lowest-cost way to get you everything you're looking for.

Tried to downloand. It needs OSX 10.8 or 10.9. I will need to wait until my 10.6 update from apple store comes tomorrow then I can start.

[Cornucopia]

Btw, ".264" files are raw/elementary streams. Should PP not accept raw streams, mux them into an MP4 or TS container.

Scott

[chlsy8]

Btw, ".264" files are raw/elementary streams. Should PP not accept raw streams, mux them into an MP4 or TS container.

Scott

Which software do you use for muxing? I downloaded ffmpeg and ffdshow but don't know how to use them.

Does Encore recognize raw 264 files? I am planning to compress the file from FCP7 to MP2 - is MP2 raw files too?

Thanks!

[poisondeathray]

Yes encore accepts raw .264 files

You could use the mac version of tsmuxer to mux into a transport stream. Tsmuxer can even author BD, but it's very simple without menus

[Cornucopia]

Did you even LOOK at the muxing app selection? Of course, ffmpeg is capable, but unless you are familiar with it, it would be daunting.

Not sure about Encore and raw file support, but that shouldn't sidetrack or worry you - muxing/demuxing is a temporary and minor detour.

Mp2 (assuming you mean the usual Mpeg1 Layer2 audio) is a very BAD choice. If you actually meant MP4 (I hope you did), an h.264/AVC video in an MP4 is probably the BEST choice of container options for your purposes.

Scott

[chlsy8]

Thanks Scott and PDR - tsmuxer looks easy to use

What I mean by mp2 is MPEG2 - M2V or M2TS (I suppose they are the same?) - I heard MPEG2 has better image quality than MPEG4?

I am compressing the file from FCP7 again with MPEG2 transport stream - I wonder will the product from this will be any different if I convert the H264 to M2TS with TXMUXER?

[poisondeathray]

What I mean by mp2 is MPEG2 - M2V or M2TS (I suppose they are the same?) - I heard MPEG2 has better image quality than MPEG4?

I am compressing the file from FCP7 again with MPEG2 transport stream - I wonder will the product from this will be any different if I convert the H264 to M2TS with TXMUXER?

MPEG2 transport stream is more commonly called just "transport stream" . Common extensions are .TS , .MTS, .M2TS. It can be thought as a container format like MOV or MP4 . As a container, it doesn't have any bearing on quality - it's "what's inside that counts" . ie. the quality will depend on the encoding characteristics, such as bitrate, compression used.


Blu-ray supports MPEG2, VC-1 and AVC compression. By far the most commonly used is AVC, because of higher quality to compression ratio. But you can still have high quality BD's if you use enough bitrate using MPEG2 or VC-1

M2V is an elementary MPEG2 video stream. Analogous to how .264 or .h264 is an elementary AVC video stream

[chlsy8]

Thanks PDR!

How do people use AVC to make blu ray? - I know H264 is actually kind of AVC file (correct me if I am wrong) - but H264 is raw and won't be recognized by toast or leawo. So everybody uses a container?

So if the insider that counts - a container that has AVC/H264 in it should be better than directly compress it into MPEG2?

I am using high bitrate now compressing (abr 30 and maximum 35). But when I check the inspector window under compressor, it says extension m2v although the job is transport stream. Should I manually change it?

Thanks so much!

What I mean by mp2 is MPEG2 - M2V or M2TS (I suppose they are the same?) - I heard MPEG2 has better image quality than MPEG4?

I am compressing the file from FCP7 again with MPEG2 transport stream - I wonder will the product from this will be any different if I convert the H264 to M2TS with TXMUXER?

MPEG2 transport stream is more commonly called just "transport stream" . Common extensions are .TS , .MTS, .M2TS. It can be thought as a container format like MOV or MP4 . As a container, it doesn't have any bearing on quality - it's "what's inside that counts" . ie. the quality will depend on the encoding characteristics, such as bitrate, compression used.


Blu-ray supports MPEG2, VC-1 and AVC compression. By far the most commonly used is AVC, because of higher quality to compression ratio. But you can still have high quality BD's if you use enough bitrate using MPEG2 or VC-1

M2V is an elementary MPEG2 video stream. Analogous to how .264 or .h264 is an elementary AVC video stream

[poisondeathray]

How do people use AVC to make blu ray? - I know H264 is actually kind of AVC file (correct me if I am wrong) - but H264 is raw and won't be recognized by toast or leawo. So everybody uses a container?

There are different "levels" of blu-ray. No professional / studio level software uses containers . Pro level software usually ONLY accepts elementary streams, because putting elementary streams in certain containers can strip certain headers .

Toast and Leawo are considered "consumer grade" which won't pass any stream verification processes if you want to take it to the next level (ie. replication with BDCMF image, commercial distribution - commercial discs aren't "burnt" discs, they are pressed) . For consumer grade software, it doesn't matter what you use - in fact they sometimes don't even accept elementary streams . So you probably need to put it into a container if you want to use those

Encore is middle of the road - it supports many BD features, pop up menus - but lacks many as well like interactive BD-J . Studio level software is expensive.

So if the insider that counts - a container that has AVC/H264 in it should be better than directly compress it into MPEG2?

I am using high bitrate now compressing (abr 30 and maximum 35). But when I check the inspector window under compressor, it says extension m2v although the job is transport stream. Should I manually change it?

You will only see the differences at lower bitrates, or if you have heavy grain or lots of action - basically those are things make it difficult to compress .

There are differences between encoders as well. For example compressor's AVC encoder isn't very good , but you'd be hard pressed to see differences at high bitrates, unless you have difficult to compress material, or if you go frame by frame and zoom in

m2v is an elementary MPEG2 video stream , compressor might be putting it into a transport stream after, don't manually change extensions

[chlsy8]

Thanks PDR! That's a lot of helpful information!

Is Encore's compressor better than Mac compressor (The one coupled with FCP7, comes with Mac pro)?

[poisondeathray]

Is Encore's compressor better than Mac compressor (The one coupled with FCP7, comes with Mac pro)?

"Compressor" is a Mac application

Encore's encoding engine uses Mainconcept (or Rovi) for both MPEG2 and AVC. It's marginally better in some areas, but weaker in others. Mainconcept AVC's weak spot is gradients, shadow areas. It's MPEG2 encoding seems better at those characteristics, but in high motion even at high bitrates any MPEG2 encoding will have fine macroblocking. Again, at high bitrates, you'd be hard pressed to see differences with any of those encoders. These are nitpicky things that 99.9999% people aren't concerned about. They don't pause the video and examine frame by frame

For highest quality, it's usually not recommended to use the authoring tool itself for the encoding, because they are usually limited to 1pass encoding.

[Cornucopia]

You really ought to do a little homework WRT Codecs & Containers...

Multimedia files can be RAW (a video stream, an audio stream, a subtitle stream, a text stream, a midi stream, etc) and they will be singular (only 1 "track" in that stream), or
Multimedia files can be Contained in a MM Container, which bundles them together to maintain synchronization, monolithic packaging, etc. There can be zero or one or more of each of those aforementioned streams.

"MPEG" refers both to the audio and/or video encoding method (MP1, MP2, MP3, & MP4/AAC audio, and MPG1, MPG2, MPG4-pt2/ASP, MPG4-pt10/AVC/h.264, HEVC/h.265 video for example) or to the container format (MPEG1-SystemStream, MPEG2-ProgramStream/VOB, MPEG2-TransportStream, MPG4-pt14/MP4 for example).

There have been a wide range of naming conventions for extensions WRT MPEG, but one of the common ones is this:

For video elementary streams, it ends in V. For audio ES, it ends in A. For Mpeg1, the middle letter is 1, for Mpeg2, the middle letter is 2, for Mpeg4, the middle letter is 4. So,

M1v = Raw MPEG1 video elementary stream
M1a = Raw MPEG1 audio elementary stream -> Since there are 3 layers, they usually separate them out that way-> MP1, MP2, MP3
M1s = MPEG1 system stream (container) -> More common just to refer to this as Mpg
M2v = Raw MPEG2 video elementary stream
M2a = Raw MPEG2 audio elementary stream (same layer naming as MPeg1 since they're compatible)
M2p = MPEG2 program stream (container) -> Confusing because too similar to MP2 audio, so more common to just refer to this also as Mpg
M2t = MPEG2 transport stream (container) -> Also in common usage is .TS, .MTS, .M2TS (which one often depends on applied usage)
M4v = Raw MPEG4 video elementary stream (could be pt2=ASP or pt10=AVC/H.264, you can't tell)
M4a = Raw MPEG4 audio elementary stream -> Since the audio files are often seen elementary, a common alternate is AAC

Since you can't tell about AVC/h.264, it has become common to refer to raw streams of that type as *.AVC or *.264

Oh, yes, and AVC == H.264 == MPEG4-pt10 == JVT.
E*X*A*C*T*L*Y the same.

H.264 or AVC can be RAW, or stuck in an MP4 container, or stuck in a MPEG2-TS container, or even sometimes stuck in an AVI or MOV or MKV container (and more). You don't know just by the name alone!

Codecs are rarely "better" or "worse" in quality alone. To compare them, you have to use those designations alongside other considerations. "Better quality on most material at the same bitrate", is a common comparison. It's better to think of codecs as having certain features (some better, some worse depending on the material), but that the best comparison overall has to do with EFFICIENCY.

So, for the MPEG family's video encoding formats:
MPEG1 is not as efficient as MPEG2, which is not as efficient as MPEG4-pt2/ASP, which is not as efficient as MPEG4-pt10/AVC/H264, which is not as efficient as HEVC/H265.
And ANY of those can be coded such that they are MORE or LESS quality than any of the others, depending which features are used or not and on the given bitrate for each.

Scott

[smrpix]

For highest quality, it's usually not recommended to use the authoring tool itself for the encoding, because they are usually limited to 1pass encoding.

For absolute highest quality this is true. But, as a practical matter, in the case of Encore I tend to recommend it because a) the mainconcept encoder is quite good, b) 2-pass is available, c) Encore is quick to re-encode any file it sees as non-compliant anyway.

[chlsy8]

Thanks everybody for your input.

I tried another round of compressing with Compressor, aiming for a MPEG2 Transport stream only - the final file has extension of M2V but when I played it with quicktime player or VLC, it doesn't have sound.

[smrpix]

the final file has extension of M2V but when I played it with quicktime player or VLC, it doesn't have sound.

See Cornucopia's previous post for an explanation of this.

Not sure why you're still screwing around with mpegstreamclip when you're theoretically trying to make BR compatible files. (It's fine for many other things.)