Discussion about the Forum itself: New look

[danielmak]

I didn't see a forum that is dedicated to discussing the forum itself, so it seems like this might be the best forum for such a discussion. First, I should say that this forum has been such an amazing resource for a variety of video-related issues. I consider myself ahead of the curve in some situations, in the middle in others, and a newbie in others. No matter the context, the advice I receive here is thoughtful and altruistic in nature. With that said, the new look of the forum seems to be a step backwards. It is very difficult to decipher new threads (from the main forum page and once inside a specific forum). I hope this is a work in progress. The old system with the bright red icons for new posts worked very well, so it's not clear why a change was made. Thanks for considering my comments.

EDIT: Of course right after I post this, I see that there is a feedback forum. Can a moderator move this thread? Sorry about this.

[Baldrick]

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/314724-New-forum-vBulletin%21

and

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/315952-New-posts

[lordsmurf]

It's the same tech found on most other major sites.
The old forum ran on old tech, more issues with spam, limitations, more hackable, etc.

As an end user, the WYSIWYG editor alone is a major improvement.
The old phpBB2 bbcode system was a pain in the ass.

I can use VH faster now than ever -- thanks to some of the features of vB 4.

[DarrellS]

It's the same tech found on most other major sites.
The old forum ran on old tech, more issues with spam, limitations, more hackable, etc.

As an end user, the WYSIWYG editor alone is a major improvement.
The old phpBB2 bbcode system was a pain in the ass.

I can use VH faster now than ever -- thanks to some of the features of vB 4.

That's the reason that everyone loved this site. It was like no other site on the internet and didn't feel that it had to keep up with the Jones to be successful.

I had to install a hosts file to keep crap from attacking my sports forum which is also v-bulletin. My sports forum gets attacked all the time by spammers, hackers and chinese sites and like this new site, it takes forever to load a page. Might as well have dial-up.

Also, the threads on "all the threads I have posted" still shows most of my threads unread when they are all read. I have no idea which threads need to be replied to without opening every single one and usually none of them need replied to since nobody has a way to see the threads that they need to reply to and just reply to threads on the front page. This was the main feature that I used with the old forum software and it is pretty much useless now.

[lordsmurf]

It sounds like you need to spend some more time on vBulletin.org if you're having that much trouble. That's very unusual.

Pretty much anything you can do in phpBB, you can do in vB, but better.

Just give Baldrick some time, changing software is challenging, but I know he's up to the task. Feel free to research fixes for the problems you face -- again, vBulletin.org. Griping is fine and all, but helping is better.

[Baldrick]

Also, the threads on "all the threads I have posted" still shows most of my threads unread when they are all read. I have no idea which threads need to be replied to without opening every single one and usually none of them need replied to since nobody has a way to see the threads that they need to reply to and just reply to threads on the front page. This was the main feature that I used with the old forum software and it is pretty much useless now.

That works fine here. Threads with new posts that I have not clicked on has a goto new post icon() and the colored statusicon(). But it could anyway be some bug that causes problems. And I'm using vbulletin 4 and it has still lots of bugs, especially in the search area.

And I will try get better icons so it will be easier to see different from new and old threads.

[orsetto]

I agree the "old forum" was much easier to read and navigate, it was my favorite experience of all the forums I frequent. Unfortunately time passes and web technology is never static, so it really isn't possible to be a luddite and still maintain a functional site that has more than a dozen regular visitors. We are luckier than most that Baldrick has the time, interest and smarts to truly monitor the transition and try to reproduce as many of the old comforts as possible. I've been surprised how much he's fixed in the last week alone, and have faith he'll eventually polish the new VH to make it as great as ever. The improvement in little things like emoticons from last week to this week is enough proof for me (they're still way too big, though).

[DarrellS]

Also, the threads on "all the threads I have posted" still shows most of my threads unread when they are all read. I have no idea which threads need to be replied to without opening every single one and usually none of them need replied to since nobody has a way to see the threads that they need to reply to and just reply to threads on the front page. This was the main feature that I used with the old forum software and it is pretty much useless now.

That works fine here. Threads with new posts that I have not clicked on has a goto new post icon() and the colored statusicon(). But it could anyway be some bug that causes problems. And I'm using vbulletin 4 and it has still lots of bugs, especially in the search area.

And I will try get better icons so it will be easier to see different from new and old threads.

It doesn't matter if they are go to icons or already read icons, they are almost all read. Maybe a thread that says it's already read might be a new post. I never know until I click on it whether it is or not. Almost all of the icons in my threads I've posted in are marked as go to (unread). That's 20 pages of supposedly unread posts.

[Baldrick]

That's 20 pages of supposedly unread posts.

It's a bit different from the old phpbb2, then it used your last visit time if it was read. Now you must click on the thread until it becomes read.

[olyteddy]

I just make it a habit to click the 'Mark Forums Read' chicklet at the bottom of the main index page before I log out. (Thanks for pointing it out to me Baldrick).

[DarrellS]

I just make it a habit to click the 'Mark Forums Read' chicklet at the bottom of the main index page before I log out. (Thanks for pointing it out to me Baldrick).

I searched for days for this "Mark Forums Read" on the front page where Baldrick said it was but it was nowhere to be found. Thanks for stating it was on the Index page where I had not looked. After clicking this, it marks all threads after the update date as read but all threads before Jan 29th are marked as unread and I doubt that I'll go back and click on every thread on those 20 pages to mark them as read so I'll have to live with that (eventually they will slip off the front page and I won't notice it). Hopefully the other bug of showing unread as read and read as unread is fixed. The last time I opened the page, it looked right for the posts since the update but before that, it was all mixed up.

[Baldrick]

I will probably update how the read/unread works a bit as I don't like it either. But I will wait for some vbulletin fixes first.

[lordsmurf]

It's a bit different from the old phpbb2, then it used your last visit time if it was read. Now you must click on the thread until it becomes read.

vB3 works more like phpBB2 for this. It must be a change or bug in vB4.

[DarrellS]

Everything looks OK today. All the newer posts were marked as read except this one. I'm not going to mark forums read this time and see if it remembers by itself this time. If not then I'll do the mark forums read trick until there is a future fix.

[Seeker47]

I will probably update how the read/unread works a bit as I don't like it either. But I will wait for some vbulletin fixes first.

Is there still a lot of wasted vertical space -- as with the post I'm replying to -- or some minimum display space per post, leaving a good deal of vertical white space ? That seems to be a residual difference from phbb. If so, it affects how many posts we are apt to be seeing on a thread page.

[DarrellS]

Everything looks OK today. All the newer posts were marked as read except this one. I'm not going to mark forums read this time and see if it remembers by itself this time. If not then I'll do the mark forums read trick until there is a future fix.

It seems to be remembering now. I had two new posts at the top of the page today and after I read them, they were marked as read.

[AlanHK]

The "attach image" button doesn't work properly in Opera. In that I only get a prompt to enter a URL, no upload.
I tried it in Firefox and got the whole upload and format deal.

Even in that I'm a bit disturbed by this "rich editor" that hides the BBCODE. I like to see and modify the code.

[Baldrick]

The "attach image" button doesn't work properly in Opera. In that I only get a prompt to enter a URL, no upload.
I tried it in Firefox and got the whole upload and format deal.

Even in that I'm a bit disturbed by this "rich editor" that hides the BBCODE. I like to see and modify the code.

You can change editor under your forum settings, the Message Editor Interface at https://forum.videohelp.com/profile.php?do=editoptions

[AlanHK]

The "attach image" button doesn't work properly in Opera. In that I only get a prompt to enter a URL, no upload.
I tried it in Firefox and got the whole upload and format deal.

Even in that I'm a bit disturbed by this "rich editor" that hides the BBCODE. I like to see and modify the code.

You can change editor under your forum settings, the Message Editor Interface at https://forum.videohelp.com/profile.php?do=editoptions

Okay; but the image attach still doesn't work for me.

[Baldrick]

It doesn't work over at vbulletin.com either(in Opera). Maybe they will fix it in next bug fix release. Test

[AlanHK]

If you edit a post now there is no indication that you have done so.

In the old forum if you edited a post AFTER someone had replied you got the "Last edited on ..." line. Now no such line appears.

I had noticed that the "Edited" notice was appearing in the new forum even if the post edited was the last one in a thread; this was a bit annoying as I often edit to correct typos or have a better idea.

But now when a discussion gets heated it's possible for people to change a post with no indication and leave a riposte looking like an unprovoked attack.

This will encourage abuse.

And even in old posts that I know I edited long ago this line has disappeared....
So I assume this information is still available but is not being displayed?

If you can't restore the original behaviour, better to have all edits indicated rather than none.

[Baldrick]

The "last edited by" should appear if you edit the post after 5 minutes.

[lordsmurf]

This will encourage abuse.

I don't agree. Rarely are two people in a post at the same time. Sometimes I'll make typos, or I'll just use poor words (overly aggressive, mild cussing), and come back and fix it.

If I wrote "Go **** yourself." as my post, and I meant it, I wouldn't change it.
If I was pissed off, wrote that, and came back 2-3 minutes later because I realized it was inappropriate, then that isn't "abuse" as some would put it. That's just common sense prevailing, even if it is a few minutes late.

Some of us also come from a background where you write, and then edit it many times.

[AlanHK]

This will encourage abuse.

I don't agree. Rarely are two people in a post at the same time. Sometimes I'll make typos, or I'll just use poor words (overly aggressive, mild cussing), and come back and fix it.

If I wrote "Go **** yourself." as my post, and I meant it, I wouldn't change it.
If I was pissed off, wrote that, and came back 2-3 minutes later because I realized it was inappropriate, then that isn't "abuse" as some would put it. That's just common sense prevailing, even if it is a few minutes late..

I didn't say you shouldn't be allowed to edit posts, as you seem to imply I did.

It's abuse if you write "Go **** yourself", I reply similarly, you delete your remark and I get reported, while you are looking innocent. With your "Last edited" line timestamped after my response that would raise suspicion that you shared the guilt.

And actually I think I was sanctioned once when I wrote something intemperate, though I deleted it almost immediately before anyone replied. Some trigger-happy mod probably got an email notification and acted on that.

[Seeker47]

Some of us also come from a background where you write, and then edit it many times.

YES ! Because -- never mind the rare, hasty insult -- we seldom get it right the first time !
Or, you forgot something, correct something else, or just find a better way to express it.

[AlanHK]

Some of us also come from a background where you write, and then edit it many times.

YES ! Because -- never mind the rare, hasty insult -- we seldom get it right the first time !
Or, you forgot something, correct something else, or just find a better way to express it.

OF COURSE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO EDIT YOUR POSTS.
No one said it should be otherwise.

Since both you and Smurf seem to somehow have got the opposite impression, it seems I should make it a little more obvious.

[lordsmurf]

It's abuse if you write "Go **** yourself",

No, it's not. It's called anger. And after a few minutes, cooler heads prevail. So you go edit it out (often hoping nobody saw it -- angry outbursts are usually just embarrassing for the writer).

I reply similarly, you delete your remark and I get reported, while you are looking innocent.

That's not my problem. I fixed mine. (I also didn't make you post yours, that was your choice.)
What I find in those situations is YOU MEANT YOURS and then got pissy because you got the admin/mod smack upside the head. (Note: "You" is used generic here, I'm not talking about you, AlanHK.)

With your "Last edited" line timestamped after my response that would raise suspicion that you shared the guilt.

What guilt? Any guilt was already expended by editing the post. Post edited, guilt now gone.

And actually I think I was sanctioned once when I wrote something intemperate, though I deleted it almost immediately before anyone replied.

Not possible. You can't edit a post after a mod carded you on it (on the old phpBB2 system, at least). Even if it were possible, a simple explanation to the mod would have resolved that problem.

Some trigger-happy mod probably got an email notification and acted on that.

The system doesn't work that way.

[redwudz]

If we receive a complaint about a post, we investigate it. If there is no violation, no action is taken. As Baldrick mentioned, you have five minutes to correct your 'error', after that the post is shown as 'edited'. While 'colorful' language may be tolerated, abusive personal attacks are not.

[AlanHK]

It's abuse if you write "Go **** yourself",

No, it's not. It's called anger. And after a few minutes, cooler heads prevail. So you go edit it out (often hoping nobody saw it -- angry outbursts are usually just embarrassing for the writer).

The original remark is NOT the "abuse" I'm talking about.
I qualified that with the rest of the sentence.

I reply similarly, you delete your remark and I get reported, while you are looking innocent.

That's not my problem. I fixed mine. (I also didn't make you post yours, that was your choice.)
What I find in those situations is YOU MEANT YOURS and then got pissy because you got the admin/mod smack upside the head. (Note: "You" is used generic here, I'm not talking about you, AlanHK.)

With your "Last edited" line timestamped after my response that would raise suspicion that you shared the guilt.

What guilt? Any guilt was already expended by editing the post. Post edited, guilt now gone.

You deleting it later after you know I've seen it doesn't leave you innocent.


And for the third time: I was only saying that edits should be timestamped. Not that you shouldn't be allowed to edit.
If you delete your remark after I've seen it and made a response, that is different than if you do so immediately.

And actually I think I was sanctioned once when I wrote something intemperate, though I deleted it almost immediately before anyone replied.

Not possible. You can't edit a post after a mod carded you on it (on the old phpBB2 system, at least). Even if it were possible, a simple explanation to the mod would have resolved that problem.

Some trigger-happy mod probably got an email notification and acted on that.

The system doesn't work that way.

It happened. I made a post that wasn't very polite, I changed it a minute later. Shortly after I receive a "warning". I ask Baldrick what I'm being "warned" about, he just said don't worry about it, it's only a 3-day warning. So I dropped it.

[ZAPPER]

I am slow to change. I am still getting used to this typewriter with the TV screen let alone the window dressing changes

It all looks a little Spartan on the surface and then again the posting page looks familar. Keep up with progress or get run over I guess




I have seen some questionable editing in the past and I think this has come up before but hey, it is a forum after all


At any rate, just keeping this place up and running ha got to be a pain without having to learn/invent new programing every couple of years.


Thanks