Windows 7: How Long Will It Remain?

[Tom Saurus]

I have Windows 7 on my newest computer that I bought last in the summer of 2011. I am for the most part pleased with it. I have been thinking of getting a second i5 computer, but I would like to put that off until next spring. I really don't want anything to do with Windows 8. From the reviews and demos I have watched on YouTube, I am dreading Windows 8. Could there be the scenario next spring if you want a Windows computer, you have to buy a Windows 8 one? I was thinking that the new computer would become my Entertainment Hub, have a Hauppauge Colossus HD PVR card put in, mainly because it has the TBC build into it. Then have a nice LED TV hooked to it via HDMI.

From what I have seen of Windows 8, unless your an enthusiast for touch screen, it is not a good fit for a desktop. I wouldn't even want it on a laptop. One person in their review stated Business would not switch to this, after going to the expense of upgrading from Windows XP to Windows 7. There has to be something really worthwhile to justify the expense.

[nic2k4]

There seems to be a lot of FUD about 8 out there, I have seen many reviews that go either ways. I would suggest you base your decision on first hand experience and luckily now that 8 is out more actual facts should start to surface. By the time you get a new computer you should have more insights and a few bug patches should have been issued.

One thing that is really troubling with 8 is its requirement for UEFI and secure boot, that basically replaces the BIOS (only supported with Windows 7 64bit) and locks access to the drive preventing installation of other OS' that don't have the correct platform key (I haven't seen any info on whether there's a platform key for Windows 7). So if you get a PC with Windows 8 on it, there may be issues trying to replace the OS.

As for how long is 7 going to be around, this has yet to be determined.

I should add, even if 7 reaches end of sale life it may still be available from MS's servers. An easy way to find the server address is with Wintoolkit (sorry for the softpedia link, whatever you do don't click the green download buttons. The blue arrow download button is the one you want).

[lordsmurf]

I bought an i7 laptop earlier this year.
Why only an i5?

[MOVIEGEEK]

Windows 7 will have extended support until 1/14/2020, I just bought a 7 desktop earlier this year so I'm good for a while.
You should be able to buy a Windows 7 PC for about one year and the 7 installation discs should be available from retailers until 2015, individuals will be selling the discs for years online though.

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-extends-windows-7-support-to-2020

[jagabo]

There seems to be a lot of FUD about 8 out there

Yes, Microsoft has paid for a lot of glowing reviews.

Microsoft has indicated they would support Windows 7 until ~2020.
http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/search/default.aspx?alpha=Windows+7

[TreeTops]

But if this is true:..... "One thing that is really troubling with 8 is its requirement for UEFI and secure boot, that basically replaces the BIOS (only supported with Windows 7 64bit) and locks access to the drive preventing installation of other OS' that don't have the correct platform key (I haven't seen any info on whether there's a platform key for Windows 7). So if you get a PC with Windows 8 on it, there may be issues trying to replace the OS."

Most new computers will eventually come with Win 8 pre-installed so those people may have problems trying to install Win 7.

[Tom Saurus]

lordsmurf: If I can afford it, I will get an i7. But it must have HDMI output, that is important to me and unfortunately not every computer offers HDMI output.


I am hopeful from what I read here in the responses that if I can afford it next spring I can have a new computer with Windows 7 on it. I talked to the Computer Guy, I buy stuff from and he assured me he could get me a Windows 7 i5 computer next year and he said that by then the i7 computers should be down in price as well. It is a comfort to know that Windows 7 is going to be supported for quite awhile to come.

[roma_turok]

6 Start Menu Replacements for Windows 8

[Hoser Rob]

"If I can afford it, I will get an i7. But it must have HDMI output" ...

Pretty much any netbook has hdmi now. I doubt it'd be a problem.

I've been looking at UEFI as well, because I'm running linux now, and windows 8 is one of the main reasons I am doing so. Not that I actually think there's anything wrong with windows 8. I just don't want to go in that direction.

The thing you have to remember above all is that windows 8 is above all a tablet interface, even on a desktop. Can't blame them for that. Have you seen data for tablet vs. desktop/laptop sales lately?

The thing I have to snicker at is that they are now going to charge for windows media center. They'd better be doing a lot of development on it. At free it's a ripoff now.

[jman98]

The thing you have to remember above all is that windows 8 is above all a tablet interface, even on a desktop. Can't blame them for that. Have you seen data for tablet vs. desktop/laptop sales lately?

They are intended for completely different purposes. Nobody can do what we could call "serious work" on a tablet unless by that term you mean send email and surf the web. People aren't buying new computers more because of the economy than any other reason in my opinion. I have my doubts about the success of Win 8, but even if it is a failure along the lines of Vista, Microsoft will shrug it off and make Win 9 more like Win 7 than Win 8.

[usually_quiet]

The thing I have to snicker at is that they are now going to charge for windows media center. They'd better be doing a lot of development on it. At free it's a ripoff now.

Whether it is worthwhile or not depends on what you want to do with it, and where you live. Windows Media Center is much easier to set up for recording TV in the USA than its freeware competitors (I have tried almost every free PVR software package available for Windows), and Windows Media Center the ONLY program that can be used with a CableCARD tuner.

[MOVIEGEEK]

WMC is one reason I'm sticking with 7, it's valuable if you have a HTPC. As for HDMI, most desktops and laptops come with it nowadays.

[chicken264]

until microsoft produces another solid os which people like.
Same story with XP, I know it is going to be loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon g.

I also didn't like many things (from earphones, laptops, cameras software) that these reviewers like. User reviews like on Amazon are more reliable.

[usually_quiet]

I don't have a UEFI BIOS on my PC currently running the Windows 8 release preview. I ran the Windows 8 Upgrade Assistant again to be sure, and my PC passed, but it said that I couldn't use Secure Boot. So it seems that a UEFI BIOS is only an absolute requirement if you want to use Secure Boot. I think that it will be possible to boot into Linux without Secure Boot enabled. Pre-built PCs running Windows 8 will have a UEFI BIOS and Secure Boot will be enabled by default, but there should be a way to disable it.

There's an explanation of Secure Boot and other enhanced security features here http://www.itproportal.com/2012/10/31/how-windows-8-beefs-up-security/

The Linux foundation is working on its own solution for Secure Boot compatibility http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/linux-foundation-to-offer-signed...oot-conundrum/

[lordsmurf]

Have you seen data for tablet vs. desktop/laptop sales lately?

Those numbers are misleading.

The issue is that computers tend to last longer now than in years past. Unless you're a video game junky, a system from several years ago still loads a web browser, email and Word just fine. During a down economy, you don't waste good money on a faster computer that seems fast enough for what you do.

The tablet is an added purchase at best, not a replacement.

[Tom Saurus]

I just visited the Future Shop website. I am alarmed at how many computers have Windows 8 as there OS. If I get the money saved for an i7 I will have to see what my tech guy can come up with. This Windows 8 OS has turned me off big time. Why do the computer manufactures jump onto the Windows 8 bandwagon so quickly? Don't they realize that there are a lot of people so disappointed with Windows 8 that they are returning their laptops wanting refunds?

[jman98]

I just visited the Future Shop website. I am alarmed at how many computers have Windows 8 as there OS. If I get the money saved for an i7 I will have to see what my tech guy can come up with. This Windows 8 OS has turned me off big time. Why do the computer manufactures jump onto the Windows 8 bandwagon so quickly? Don't they realize that there are a lot of people so disappointed with Windows 8 that they are returning their laptops wanting refunds?

1) Microsoft offers financial incentives to sell the latest and greatest. I'm not in any way suggesting that such is illegal. Not at all. I'm simply saying that this happens.
2) A significant portion of what we might call "dumb users" believe that "newer = better". Every time a new version of Windows hits beta our forums get a lot of posts from people crying about how some program doesn't work under the beta. It NEVER makes them stop using the beta, but they complain mightily here about it.

Given the economic incentive to sell the latest version and the fact that large numbers of users aren't smart enough to be wary of new versions of Windows, there's no reason to not do it.

I have not personally heard of people returning Win 8 like they did Vista, but I tried Win 8 a few weeks ago and I was really unimpressed. I don't care how cheap it is, I have no plans to buy it or use it.

[KTH]

Like usually_quiet mentioned I hope that computer manufacturers will allow you to disable Secure Boot, but I'm guessing some will not. For example I doubt Dell computers would let you disable Secure Boot. The Dell bios's that I've seen on Windows XP, Vista, & 7 machines don't allow you to change very much.

[lingyi]

Win 7 on the hardware retail level will soon be gone. Atbest, you might be able to get it as a “downgrade” from your pre-installed Win8.

Look at it from a retailer’s perspective. Any new PC without Win 8 will be considered old stock. SadlyWin 8 is here to stay, just as Win 7 and Vista were when they were introduced.
That said, you always have the option to purchase andinstall Win 7 yourself. As mentioned, Win 7 is and will be available for salefor quite a while. If you're worried about the future, buy a couple of copies now for installation in the future. Given the amount ofbloatware installed on new PCs (it took me a half a day to uninstall all thestuff I didn’t want on my new laptop, it’s probably better to fresh install anew OS anyway.

My new laptop came with Win 8 preinstalled (ironically, thiswas the “upgraded” version of the laptop, with 2gb less Ram and no Win 7). Iplayed around with Win 8 for a few days (once you get past the new Startscreen, it was essentially the same as Win 7). Something happened when I triedto shrink the OS partition (something I’ve done dozens of times on othersystems). Win 8 blue screened and ratherthan fiddle around with restoring it, I put on a fresh Win 7 install. Beenhappily using it like that ever since.

A bit of info about UEFI. My BIOS (the laptop is a Lenovo)shows Win 8 as the OS, even though I’ve changed it to Win 7. To install Win 7,I had to switch a setting in the BIOS to “Other OS” before I was able toinstall Win 7.

[Verify]

I currently have three computers, one with XP installed, one W7, and one W8; all networked and with shared printers. I have had no problems with W8 and have installed some really old software as well as an old multifunction printer on the W8 box.

On the other hand, Microsoft just issued updates for all three systems and they impacted networking on the XP box and scanning on the W8 box. The W7 box was OK but doesn't have an attached printer so who knows.

Of the three operating system versions I prefer W8. I seldom use the 'tile' (ex metro) interface and it only takes one key-press or mouse click to toggle between the tiles and the desktop. I occasionally miss the start menu, but not enough to install one of the various free replacements. YMMV

(In case someone thinks that I'm one of the 'dumb users' I have spent over 40 years designing a wide range of hardware including custom embedded processors and smart card chips and at least 20 years developing business applications and real-time embedded software : )

[deadrats]

if you're buying a pre-built pc from one of the big oem's then for the most part you will be stuck with whatever OS comes pre-installed, if you're building your own you can, for the most part, install any OS you want.

the above is the theoretical answer, here's the practical one: take my 3770k as an example, i can install XP 64 or Vista on this pc but then i lose the ability to use quick sync (if that's important to an end user), AVX is only supported with Win 7 SP1 (IIRC), AVX2 and TSX i believe will require Win 8, similarly FMA3/4 and similar such specialized instructions will only be supported with the latest Oses, so you get stuck in an interesting quandary, do you stick with the OS that you like the best or consider superior (in your case i'm guessing that's Win 7) and give up the ability to take advantage of the latest advancements/features that modern cpu's offer or do you go with an OS that supports those features but you don't like as much/consider inferior?

it's a tough one, AVX2 will bring integer simd into the 256bit realm and along with tsx promise to nearly double performance in applications, like video and photo editing, that make extensive use of integer simd, that means if one wants to upgrade to haswell (or whatever AMD cpu eventually ends up also supporting the instruction set), you really have no choice but to go with Win 8.

and in a few years, Intel and/or AMD, or possibly some third party like Nvidia or ARM, will come out with some improvement that's so compelling that it forces you to go with the latest OS, that you hate, just so you can use the latest hardware improvement.

it happened with Win XP and DX9 (people hated XP when it first came out but had to upgrade to play DX9 games), it happened with Vista and DX10 (people loathed Vista but had to upgrade to use DX10), it happened with Win 7 and DX11 and it's about to happen with Win 8 and AVX2, wash, rinse and repeat.

[Tom Saurus]

I think judging that most computers are going to come with Windows 8 loaded on them, I will have to have the technician I go to, build me a custom computer. I noticed a lot of refurbished computers being sold on the tigerdirect website and they even have Windows 8 on them. Well I will have to see how much I can save and not knowing the future I may have to use the money for something else.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I have learned quite a bit over the years here at videohelp. Happy Holidays to everyone!

[Richard_G]

Win 95 - excellent
Win 98 - sucked
Win 98SE - excellent
Win Millennium - sucked
Win XP - excellent
Win Vista - sucked
Win 7 - excellent
Win 8 -?? but has anyone else noticed the pattern here?

Bring out the newest version with the latest and greatest features, then when it doesn't work properly, replace it so everyone has to go out and buy the improved version. Or am I just a cynic?

[ranchhand]

RichardG nailed it. Microsoft makes it's money selling OSs and Office, it's two biggest income producers. What better way to generate fresh money than release a new OS? I can't even begin to imagine the international licensing fees charged yearly that flows into their coffers from corporate sources world-wide. Enormous. The thing that I am watching closely is how international business is going to react to W8? I simply cannot imagine millions of corporate users sitting in their cubicles, hunched over, lovingly stroking their LCD screens trying to work with Excel or creating a presentation in powerpoint. That's why so many corporations are still running XP.
Lordsmurf said:

a system from several years ago still loads a web browser, email and Word just fine.

This is exactly what the VP of IT of a major corporation would say, and millions of satisfied XP and W7 users. I know folks who are still using Windows 2000. Remember it? Everything that runs on XP will run on W2000; I maintain a few of those old units.

[yoda313]

Everything that runs on XP will run on W2000; I maintain a few of those old units.

Well maybe business applications but not gaming.

For awhile I had win2000 and loved it compared to win98. I would have to reinstall win98 at least twice a year it seemed.

I eventually moved to winxp on a new computer because win2000 was not meant for gaming. At that time I was more of a pc gamer than a console gamer so that meant more to me then than it does now.

So deadrats was right in pointing out the improvements or forced obsolecence in the gaming world that will push hardcore users to the newest platforms to take advantage of whatever the latest and greatest in tech is.

Thats part of the reason why I've since mainly become a console gamer. Its too demanding and pricey to keep up with pc gaming. New graphics cards and processors are a pain to upgrade and keep up with whats the newest when all I want to do is pop a game in and play.

Yes I know its easy to physically upgrade a graphics card but the hassle to do it and the expense is not what I want to do anymore. And especially since the current gen is good enough and has been extended until the wii u just came out so we can get a little more out of the xbox 360 and ps3 before the next cycle starts.

[usually_quiet]

This is just a personal observation, not a reply to any post in particular. My sister and brother-in-law bought a Windows 8 laptop as a Christmas gift for my elderly mother, who has never used a computer. I think Windows 8 might be better for her than Windows 7. All she wants to be able to do is use a search engine, type letters, use a few apps and send/read emails, so the Start Screen may be easier for her to work with than the traditional Start Menu. She already likes the Bing Finance app.

I have both Windows 7 and a Windows 8 preview installed on my current PC. I like some of the Windows 8 features, and can use it reasonably well, but I am still uncomfortable with some of the changes. I already bought a Windows 7 license for my next computer, but I will probably buy a $40 Windows 8 upgrade for my present computer, now that have a compelling reason to become more familiar with Windows 8.

[deadrats]

Everything that runs on XP will run on W2000

that's a gross misstatement, as i said before XP brought about support for DX9, contrary to popular belief DX is not only D3D (the graphics portion of Direct X) but also things like Direct Sound, Direct Input, any applications that made use of these api features would not run on 2k, .NET 3.5 and above did not support 2k thus many .NET application wouldn't run, there were numerous apps created using the MFC api that wouldn't run on 2k.

perhaps the biggest draw back of 2k was that it didn't know the difference between a logical and a physical core; what this meant was that while 2k pro supported 2 cores, if you put together a dual hyperthreaded xeon system, you couldn't use 2k pro as only 2 of 4 available logical cores would be used, you could either shell out big bucks for 2k server (which supported 4 cores), advanced server (which IIRC supported 8 cores) or you could just buy xp pro which knew the difference between a logical and a physical core and thus even though it was limited to just 2 physical cores it was more than happy running a Pentium EE 840 using all 4 of it's logical cores.

make no mistake about it, this is videohelp.com, which means everybody that comes to this forum comes here primarily because they have some interest in video; consequently when avx2 starts making an appearance in video editing apps, probably the first will be in x264 and main concept's codecs, and people see the benchmarks and the performance improvements avx2 (and TSX) brings to the table, everyone at some point will look to upgrade to take advantage of it. that means they will look to buy processors that support this new SIMD, first will be intel and eventually amd will offer cpu's with avx2 and then they'll realize that they need an OS that supports avx2 and since win 7 does not and will not support it, even though we won't like it at first, we will all upgrade to Win 8, or it's successor if it's out by the time we upgrade cpu's.

we are not going to have a choice, either we stick with older hardware that is incapable of handling the UltraHD resolutions (and trust me, we don't have cpu's fast enough to deal with 2k, 3k and 4k resolutions) as well as the latest codecs (h265 is supposed to be a bear to encode and decode) or we bite the bullet and buy the newest hardware and the newest OS.

i can only speak for myself, the promise of doubling performance thanks to new SIMD's is too enticing, as much as i like Win 7, as soon as applications that can use avx2 are available i will upgrade to Win 8 + whatever the dominant processor is at the moment and never look back.

[deadrats]

I have both Windows 7 and a Windows 8 preview installed on my current PC.

do you see any performance differences between the two? is one more responsive than the other?

[usually_quiet]

I have both Windows 7 and a Windows 8 preview installed on my current PC.

do you see any performance differences between the two? is one more responsive than the other?

Yes. Windows 8 seems a little bit peppier, but nothing major.

[FulciLives]

I've been using a fresh clean install of Windows 8 (64-bit) for about 1 1/2 months now and I like it a lot. It does seem faster than my Windows 7 (64-bit) install (same hardware, separate HDD's but both are 7200rpm drives.) Of course my Windows 7 install is nearly 3 years running so I don't know if Windows 8 is faster because it is a more recent install and therefore less "junked up" or if it really is just faster.

I hated Windows 8 at first but it's not that bad. I will tell you though that I totally use Classic Shell in order to restore the START menu on the desktop. Also I pretty much avoid the "Metro" screen and stay in the desktop (although I sometimes use the Metro app for iHeartRadio).

I have found that some programs don't work in Windows 8 yet. For instance I can't get XviD4PSP to work.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman