60 FPS avi - question

[pike8]

i converted an mpeg video recorded with my tv tuner to an 60FPS avi using TMPGENC express, and it looks A LOT smoother.
however, when i play it on my mede8er or my DVD player, it's pretty choppy.
is there any way to convert my mpeg to 60 FPS video so it could be played anywhere and still retain smoothness?

original MPEG:

General
Complete name                    : C:\Video_1229-1725(CH-96).mpg
Format                           : MPEG-PS
File size                        : 177 MiB
Duration                         : 3mn 49s
Overall bit rate                 : 6 463 Kbps

Video
ID                               : 224 (0xE0)
Format                           : MPEG Video
Format version                   : Version 2
Format profile                   : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP            : Yes
Format settings, Matrix          : Default
Format_Settings_GOP              : M=3, N=15
Duration                         : 3mn 49s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 6 000 Kbps
Width                            : 720 pixels
Height                           : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
Standard                         : PAL
Resolution                       : 8 bits
Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
Scan type                        : Interlaced
Scan order                       : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.579
Stream size                      : 163 MiB (93%)

Audio
ID                               : 192 (0xC0)
Format                           : MPEG Audio
Format version                   : Version 1
Format profile                   : Layer 2
Duration                         : 3mn 49s
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 224 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Video delay                      : 103ms
Stream size                      : 6.12 MiB (3%)

TMPGENC 60FPS avi:

General
Complete name                    : C:\Video_1229-1725(CH-96).avi
Format                           : AVI
Format/Info                      : Audio Video Interleave
File size                        : 144 MiB
Duration                         : 3mn 49s
Overall bit rate                 : 5 271 Kbps
Writing library                  : TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress Version. 4.7.4.299

Video
ID                               : 0
Format                           : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile                   : Advanced Simple@L5
Format settings, BVOP            : Yes
Format settings, QPel            : No
Format settings, GMC             : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix          : Default (H.263)
Muxing mode                      : Packed bitstream
Codec ID                         : XVID
Codec ID/Hint                    : XviD
Duration                         : 3mn 49s
Bit rate                         : 4 925 Kbps
Width                            : 720 pixels
Height                           : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 5:4
Frame rate                       : 60.000 fps
Standard                         : PAL
Resolution                       : 8 bits
Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.198
Stream size                      : 135 MiB (93%)
Writing library                  : XviD 1.2.1 (UTC 2008-12-04)

Audio
ID                               : 1
Format                           : MPEG Audio
Format version                   : Version 1
Format profile                   : Layer 3
Codec ID                         : 55
Codec ID/Hint                    : MP3
Duration                         : 3mn 49s
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 320 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Stream size                      : 8.75 MiB (6%)
Alignment                        : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration             : 24 ms (1.44 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration     : 432 ms

[manono]

Why convert it at all? It plays smoothly kept as an MPEG or perhaps authored for DVD.

is there any way to convert my mpeg to 60 FPS video so it could be played anywhere and still retain smoothness?

It's not smooth since you converted a 25fps interlaced source to 60fps. Now, if you had converted it to 50 fps then that might play smoothly. If you advance frame-by-frame, you should see that one frame in every 6 is a duplicate, hence not smooth playing. Why would a European want a 60fps video?

A sample from the source MPEG might prove useful to confirm that the source is really interlaced and that it's not converted from NTSC.

[Baldrick]

Nope. Convert it to standard framerates like 25fps if you want it to work correctly on dvd players.

[pike8]

i see what i see, and i see that the other video is much smoother.

[manono]

i see what i see, and i see that the other video is much smoother.

A sample from the source MPEG might prove useful to confirm that the source is really interlaced and that it's not converted from NTSC.

And also perhaps a small sample of the one you claim is smooth playing (except when played on your DVD player or a Mede8or (whatever that is)). A short 10 second sample of both, ones showing steady movement, would be good. It's hard for us to guess what you have.

[jagabo]

Also keep in mind that 50 fps or 60 fps can be quite strenuous on a player. So even if you did the conversion perfectly the player might have problems with it. Looking at the specs for the Mede8er it looks like it should be able to play 50 or 60 fps. Try the Xvid AVI in this clip:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/307004-Best-framerate-conversion-%28eg-23-97-to-30-...=1#post1888926

[pike8]

http://hotfile.com/dl/93959176/b959469/example.rar.html
here, i've cut a little part of the original video, then converted it to 60fps avi with tmpgenc, and uploaded both in this archive.
so see it yourself and tell me is there any difference.

[jagabo]

As manono suggested earlier, the 60 fps file has one duplicate frame in every group of 6 (ie, one frame is duplicated to turn 5 frames into 6, 50 frames into 60). On a 60 Hz display that will show 10 tiny jerks every second. On a 50 Hz display it will usually play a little more jerky because you can't specify that only the duplicate frames be discarded. But both will be hard to see unless you have a long, smooth, medium speed panning shot. If you're watching on a 50 Hz display you'll be better off converting to 50 fps.

Both the original 25 fps interlaced MPG file and a 50Hz Xvid should play equally smoothly. If not, something is wrong with your playback.


50 fps Xvid AVI attached.

[pike8]

thanks a lot.
your 50fps avi is less jerky on my mede8er than both 60fps and 50fps avis i created with tmpgenc, so virtualdub seems better for this job.
it's not perfect as it is on my pc, but it's better indeed. now i'll have to experiment a little (any tips will be appreciated, since i always, for some reason, avoided using virtualdub).

[jagabo]

I think your player is just having problems with high frame rate Xvid videos.

[manono]

I think your player is just having problems with high frame rate Xvid videos.

Very possible. My suggestion is to lower the resolution, perhaps by doing a proper resize. For me the AVI plays at the wrong aspect ratio. Perhaps resize it to 640x480 and try again since, at 720x576, you're probably at the limit of what your player can handle (haven't seen the specs), the increased framerate stresses it even more, and at a lower resolution it might play more smoothly. And don't convert it to 60fps. If you insist on bobbing it, (why?) use 50fps.