How do these formats (DV, MJPEG, Huffyuv) compare?

Hi all,

As I am into buying a new PC, I've ran through lots of posts on this forum the past couple of weeks and have run through numerous internetpages regarding all kinds of hardware. As I am almost at the point of buying I still have a few small questions:

I would like to do some basic video capture to either (software) MJPEG, Huffyuv or DV compressed AVI and either keep them in MJPEG or DV (output to TV) or convert them to MPEG1 or MPEG2 (VCD).

I am considering two (or maybe both) options: a Canopus ADVC-1394 that will do realtime analog to DV conversion (and capture), or/and a Hauppauge Win-TV-FM.

(I'm not new to NLE, I've been using the Matrox Marvel for almost 4 years now, but it has died on me...)

1: Does anyone know the difference in quality between DV-video (converted from an analog Hi-8 source, using the ADVC-1394) and the same footage recorded through the BT878 into either MJPEG or Huffyuv?

2: Will the Hauppauge WinTV-FM record at resolutions like 720*576? (The website only mentions 320*240, but it doesn't seem to be the maximum.)

3: I want to do lots of editing on the material, using Ulead MSP. Are there any benefits in using one of these formats (MJPEG, DV, Huffyuv) when it comes to editing?

Thanks in advance,

Marijn

[TommyDee291]

The Win TV FM card will capture up to 720x576, I am pretty sure, I've had the card before, and i was able to capture up to pretty high dvd resoultions, but had to stop because my old pc couldn't handle it.

[TeeeRex]

I haven't much experience with the hardware you mentioned. I use a Pinnacle DV500 capture card and have found the DV codec that comes with it and the M$ one are both pretty crap (lose too much detail) However if i use the Huffuv codec in lossless mode then it's far superior to use as an AVI source for MPEG2 conversion. As long as you convert to MPG after editing then any AVI format is OK (but I use Premier 6.0 not Ulead MSP).

My PC is a P4 1.8Ghz with RAID0 but had it working fine on a standard hard disc as well and it didn't drop any frames on capture.

Possibly of some use to you ?

Possibly of some use to you ?

Well, almost. The supplied information is indeed very usefull.

Would the uncompressed BT878 Huffyuv AVI be as good as the Canopus DV? You say that the Huffyuv is superior, but would this apply to the BT878 as well? I mean, is it that good?

The Win TV FM card will capture up to 720x576

Is this possible with 'out of the box' software or do I need some third party stuff?

Thanks for you're quick responses, any other is always welcome.

Marijn

[ironwood321]

Huffyuv is a lossless codec so you capture will reflect your orignal including all the noise etc. The disadvantage is that it requires a constant high bandwidth, to pump video in at 768x576 25fps and audio. You need a system fast enough to do this. A possible solution is to use huffyuv but capture in YUV2 instead of RGB24. This is very good if you have the hardware etc to use it i.e a brooktree card or other which does not have a high cpu burden. And fast hard disks and a decent sound card.

DV there two type available a software codec from mainconcept which you can use if you wish with your anologue card or a hardware DV codec you can use with either a canoupus ADVC or Digital Hi8 or DV tape etc.
The bandwidth from DV is less so you will not burden you system as much and you might notice a slight loss of detail or softening of your image. You tend not to notice noise that much with this codec.
The software codec will use some cpu power to compress footage. (720x576)

Mjpeg has numerous standards but simply it works like standard jpg but for moving pictures. Artifacts and a loss of sharpness might be apparent when you use this codec. MJpeg capture tends not to produce decent looking MPegs when compressed.

What you use really depends on your system and how you want the output to look like.

[SatStorm]

With a Duron 1200MHZ and Win TV Primio FM, I grabb @ 720 X 576 and HuffyUV with no probs. The rest of the hardware: WD Caviar 40 (ATA100), Hercules Game furtissimo 2 soundcard, typical no-name geforce 2 64MB with TV out VGA card, and a Chiantech motherboard. You can't go cheaper today with new parts!

Third party software needed for grabbing, and the name of it is "Virtualdub"

For the rest of the codex:
With Pic Video MJPEG, grabbing is even easier Huffyuv (less CPU needed), but those kind of codex are not lossless and also, for some strange reason, there are no TMPGenc friendly. So the use of CCE is the best alternative (expencive encoder)

Finally, DV is the top quality I think and TMPGenc is optimised for DV (canopus) to mpeg encoding. Depending your source quality this can be the way to go.

I prefer more mainstream and cheap solutions, so I vote for cheap WINTV primio FM!

[TommyDee291]

I used Virtual Dub to Capture. What you have to do, is uncheck Overlay, and then you will be able to capture to High Resolutions.

[The village idiot]

Using one of the DV devices will be the easiest and most sure way of capturing. The down side is the long encoding times afterwards, and the large (though half the size of huffyuv at 2:1) file sizes. As far as quality goes... an S-video connection is only so good anyway. I don't think you will find any card or other device that can beat most of the DV devices for under about $600+. So for $200 and up they (DV devices) are easier and generally less problematic. Finding the best encoding software, however; is another story. There are many good ones, and some great ones, but they all cost money. The journey has just begun. Try Edit studio from http://www.puremotion.com, it looks promising.

[Ego_Shredder]

I use a WinTV FM PCI card and it can do 720 x 576 no problem. I also use the PicVideo M-JPEG codec at 18 Quality. I drift between using various capture programs, but I mainly use freeVCR, Virtual Dub and WinVCR v2.0. I use the last one when my source quality is poor and sometimes it can be the only one that doesn't drop frames. If the source is good, I hardly drop any frames at all.


I load the captured M-JPEG files into TMPGEnc and encode to MPEG-1 ready to burn as VCD's in Nero. Unlike the earlier post, I don't suffer any problems loading M-JPEG files into this program. My VideoCD's look pretty good on the whole when viewed on a normal TV. I only see blocks during fast motion scenes, but none at all the rest of the time. Also there is hardly any picture noise using M-JPEG. CPU load is very low, typically anywhere between 3% abd 30% on my Celeron 1.2GHz (O/C at 1.4GHz).


I have read stuff on various websites and forums saying video and audio go out of sync, when you bypass the capture card and go direct to the soundcard for the audio. I have tried both methods and I have lost sync both ways, so it doesn't matter which you use. I mention this because you might as well buy a WinTV GO! and save yourself some money, about half price infact. The WinTV GO is a mono card, but you can get stereo by going direct to your soundcard.


I'm very happy with the WinTV FM card and it's a lot of bang for your buck!


Cheers,

Ego