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  1. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    bought a TV show, 5-dvd set (MOD, duallayer) which required two different versions of DVDFab to rip. One disc wouldnt play or rip and will be replaced by the manufacturer; I dont know if it was a bad burn, or the crazy copyguard method they used by having 99 titles.

    I tried using Pgcedit to remove useless stuff, but got some caveats (dvd might not burn right), and the titles werent removed. Is there an automated way to remove all the extra titles? I can reauthor and try to replicate the menu (it's just an image with episode titles), but thought I'd ask for suggestions first.
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  2. Do you realize that Copyguard (AKA Analog Protection System) is intended to prevent making copies to VHS tape? Copyguard is not a generic term meaning any sort of copy protection.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyguard
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    Does MOD = Manufactured On Demand? Odd that you felt the need to use the uncommon abbreviation for that one yet spelled out dual layer when DL would actually be well known here. Anyway...

    I can tell you that Time Warner deliberately uses a very difficult to crack method to copy protect their on demand Archive DVDs. I'm not saying that it can't be defeated, but it requires more than old rippers like DVD Decrypter to do it. (That's just an example. I know you used DVDFab.) It could be that whoever made your DVDs is deliberately using something to make the discs difficult to copy. Or it could be that they are just badly authored. If you are curious and would like an example of a badly authored commercial DVD, take a look at season 1 of The Office (the US TV version). There's only one DVD as there were only 6 episodes in season 1, but I did a format conversion from that DVD for a friend as a one time thing and that is as badly an authored commercial DVD as I've ever seen.

    For what it's worth, if I remember correctly Time Warner Archive DVDs actually are NOT guaranteed to play in PCs but they should play in standalone players. One of the ways they protect their discs is by deliberately making them very difficult to play at all in PCs, which also makes them very difficult to rip.

    Others will have to suggest solutions to your problem. I can only tell you that there is some chance this was done deliberately, especially if Time Warner made it.
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  4. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    geez, is it "correct the semantics" day? MOD is a common abbreviation among consumers.
    drj, I wouldnt mind the semantic correction if you actually addressed the problem, but it's not helpful just to post about the "misuse" of the word copyguard.

    The 99 title copy protection method has been used before, and is of course intentional. I was only asking if anyone who's encountered know how to get rid of the extra titles. I dunno, "remapping titles"?
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  5. I own both DVDFab and AnyDVD, but I rarely use DVDFab any more. I genrally use AnyDVD to rip to an ISO image, unless it detects "structure protection". When structure protection (like "99 files") is detected AnyDVD must rip to a folder to repair the structure damage.

    No guarantee it will resolve your specific problem, but AnyDVD ripping to a folder has worked on all of my problem disks - so far.
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    Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    bought a TV show, 5-dvd set (MOD, duallayer) which required two different versions of DVDFab to rip. One disc wouldnt play or rip and will be replaced by the manufacturer; I dont know if it was a bad burn, or the crazy copyguard method they used by having 99 titles.
    Hmm... funny how now you're saying that this is "intentional" copy protection when above you said "I don't know". But providing details isn't one of your strong points, is it? You could have mentioned what the DVDs are or who made them, but whatever. I pointed out that Time Warner deliberately makes their Archive series difficult to rip and copy. If you don't have Time Warner discs that info won't help you, but again, you're not providing details. That advice could be useful to others who find this thread in the future.

    I also use AnyDVD for ripping, but as I have never bought an on demand DVD, I can't offer personal experience on how well it works with them. As usual, the more obscure your discs are (ie. you bought them from some Chinese re-seller on Ebay rather than Amazon or Time Warner who also do on demand DVDs), the less likely any commercial ripping program will be able to specifically handle their copy protection. The variations on modern DVD copy protection schemes are almost infinite, which is why AnyDVD and DVDFab get constant updates with every major release cycle.
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  7. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    thanks Drj, I'll give it a shot. I have Anydvd, but it works in the background. What do you use for the actual ripping?

    jman, I've asked you not to reply to my posts before. But to clarify, I was able to rip 4 of the 5 discs, but wanted to clean out the junk titles. Seems like they should play if burned, as some programs will load them okay, but I'd prefer to clean them up first. It was regarding the cause of the defective disc that I dont know about. Aside from a bad burn, perhaps the crazy authoring was at fault.
    Last edited by spiritgumm; 14th Nov 2013 at 11:38.
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  8. Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    I have Anydvd, but it works in the background. What do you use for the actual ripping?
    I use AnyDVD itself to do the ripping. My first preference is to rip to an ISO image; if there is structure protection I rip to hard disk.

    https://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?328-Best-way-to-rip-with-AnyDVD
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  9. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    ah, I see the option when I right-click on the icon. Started ripping, but it's including all the title sets. I'll let it run and see if it's any different.
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  10. Usually, in this kind of protection, the fake VTSs are referenced through a fake menu with a lot of buttons in the VMGM. The video content of that menu is totally black and its duration is very short, so when it is played, the user cannot see it, and is not tempted to select a button. When the menu has finished playing (without user intervention), the navigation continues to the real content. The fake menu buttons link to the fake VTSs, so that they are referenced and it is difficult for the ripper (or PgcEdit) to remove them automatically. So, to get rid of the fake VTSs, it is theoretically sufficient to kill the fake menu, and therefore destroy the fake references. Then you can use Delete Uncalled VTSs (or the slower Delete Uncalled PGCs).

    Theoretically, it's relatively simple to do. The fake menu is usually in one of the last PGCs of the VMGM. It has usually 10 buttons or more, sometimes all stacked on each other at the same place. It is easy to recognize the menu because it has a black background and (usually) a short playback time. But take care, it is necessary to be careful when killing it, because the navigation can follow different ways.

    In the easier method, the menu has no Cell Still Time, and therefore, if the user do not press one of the invisible buttons, when the playback is finished, the navigation continues with the post commands (or the cell command, if any). In that case, it is sufficient to Kill PGC Playback of the menu, and when prompted to select a button, you should click the "No button" option.

    A newer and more complex navigation method uses the "delayed action button". In that scenario, the duration of the menu may be relatively long, for example, 30 seconds. But after one or two seconds, one of the buttons of the menu is automatically activated by the player. Its command is therefore executed, and the nav jumps usually to another PGC, to continue to the real content. The post commands, in that case, are fake, and lead to the fake VTSs. It is not obvious that a button is automatically activated, but it's the case, and that button must be selected when the menu is killed. To see what button is auto-activated, go to the Menu Editor, be sure to tick the "Advanced" option in the bottom left corner of the window, and have a look at the "force the delayed action of Button X after N seconds" option. If a button is selected and the delay is not -1 seconds, that means that that button is auto-activated, and you have to select it when you kill the menu.

    It is also theoretically possible to establish a navigation timer with the SetNVTMR command to branch automatically to a specific PGC during the playback of the menu (or any other PGC), but I have never seen that method used to protect a DVD.

    Anyway, after having determined if a button of the fake menu is auto-activated or not, use the trace to simulate the playback. When you're in the fake menu, select "No button" or the auto-activated button to continue the playback, and verify if the real VTS (containing the real movie) is correctly played, and note its VTS number. Then, kill the playback of the fake menu, and use Info -> Find Uncalled PGCs. Most fake VTSs should now be highlighted as uncalled, but the real VTS must not. If it's correct, use DVD -> Delete Uncalled VTSs. If there are still some uncalled PGCs remaining after the cleanup, use also Delete Uncalled PGCs.

    Notes:

    - In some rare cases, I have seen several fake menus in the VMGM. If it's the case, you may have to kill them all to get rid of all fake VTSs.

    - The real movie is also protected with fake tiny cells at the beginning (and sometimes at the end). They are the fake cells preventing to copy the PGC. So, when the main movie will be played during the trace, don't worry if a couple of black tiny cells are played before the actual movie. It's normal.

    Good luck!
    r0lZ - PgcEdit homepage Hosted by VideoHelp (Thanks Baldrick)
    - BD3D2MK3D A tool to convert 3D BD to 3D SBS/T&B/FS MKV
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  11. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    I used PGCedit to delete the uncalled titles, manually deleted unused titles and pgcs, and had to fix a few commands, although I'm really not good at the commands. Before I could burn a disc to test playability, I received the replacement set (they werent going to exchange a single disc from the set), just 2 days after reporting the bad disc.

    The discs were all re-authored normally. Customer reviews indicate many got the same defective disc, and either the company re-authored them immediately, or the replacements came from another MOD manufacturer using different masters.
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