Media player that can play at 48Hz and engage Freesync?

[Asterra]

This one is a little involved so bear with me.

I use a Samsung TV as my desktop display. This TV utilizes a whole boatload of "visual enhancements" by default which heavily corrupt the image. "Noise reduction", crosshatch dithering, the most destructive global dimming in the industry, etc. Most of these can be defeated satisfactorily by specifying a given HDMI port as "PC". But unfortunately, if your video is anything other than 30 or 60Hz, the TV "forgets" the port is "PC" and re-engages the image corruption, non-defeatably.

What this means is that I have no real avenue for watching media at its native 24Hz. The slight judder from viewing 24Hz material on a 60Hz display is far more tolerable than the corruption this TV gets to employ at 24Hz.

But I was thinking that perhaps if I tricked the TV, I could get away with murder. Maybe instead of changing the flat refresh rate to 24Hz when watching a movie, I could somehow force the media player to engage the TV's Freesync support to drop the framerate appropriately. And doing so would most likely not cause the TV to "forget" the port is a "PC" port.

Now here's where speculation ends and lack of expertise begins. I don't know how to get a media player to do this. How to get it to use Freesync instead of changing framerate. How to get it to use 48Hz for 24Hz movies, since 48Hz is the lowest Freesync refresh rate this display will support. But I assume these things have been figured out already. So it's just information whose whereabouts I would need somebody to point out to me.

Thanks in advance.

[davexnet]

Aren't you able to set the particular inputs advanced settings and disable all those options? I can do this on my LG 4k TV,
Someone here may know more, otherwise you can try the TV forums at avsforum.com

[Asterra]

Aren't you able to set the particular inputs advanced settings and disable all those options?

No. Believe me, I have gone round and round with this issue for two years now. These are things that can only be defeated under very limited conditions. At the very top of the list is the fact that the TV engages overscan and there is nothing, nothing that can defeat this. It's sad, too: When I first turn the TV on, I get about half a second of non-overscan before it engages all of its effects. So it's a firmware problem. I honestly have no doubt whatsoever that other TV makers give the user much better control over these things. Samsung is the absolute worst when it comes to this.

[davexnet]

It still may be worth visiting the forum I mentioned, they may have
some useful info. It seems odd that Samsung would disable all those options.
Have you discussed this with other Samsung owners?
Is there a specific model range involved?

[Asterra]

It still may be worth visiting the forum I mentioned, they may have
some useful info. It seems odd that Samsung would disable all those options.
Have you discussed this with other Samsung owners?

I know far more about the issue than almost anyone in these forums. I've even developed test images for revealing the various types of dithering Samsung TVs non-defeatably employ—this is minutiae that is quite simply beyond the interest of almost everyone. And, yes, I've plagued these forums and others (AVSForum particularly) with questions about this already, many times. This is a closed topic. That's why I'm instead looking for workarounds, such as Freesync 48Hz.

[flashandpan007]

What model is it exactly?

[Asterra]

Q70r.

[flashandpan007]

What size? One size has a drawback, I don't want to tell it now. Please post its the screensize.
I think I can help you a bit

What GPU do you use? full exact model number with Vram capacity of there are different models available.

[Cornucopia]

AFAIK Q70r is a model family, not a specific model. We need more specific info than that.

How do you know that device supports Freesync? Does it advertise that?

Scott

[flashandpan007]

I still have my 2018 Q9FN and also this from the 2018 lineup - from Q9FN down to some other Q... have Freesync support.

[Asterra]

What size? One size has a drawback, I don't want to tell it now. Please post its the screensize.
I think I can help you a bit

What GPU do you use? full exact model number with Vram capacity of there are different models available.

Q70R 55 inch. 3080 Founders Edition 10GB.

Really hoping that somebody will ultimately have some insight into my original question regarding media players and the ability to 1) play media at a fixed 48Hz and 2) properly engage Freesync while doing so.

[Asterra]

AFAIK Q70r is a model family, not a specific model. We need more specific info than that.

It isn't. The R designation is a family—specifically the 2019 models. The only potentially relevant bit of info not conveyed is screen size. If I were to spell out QN55Q70R, you would then also know it's the one they released to the North America region, but that would only reveal the unit's power requirements. It is worth noting, however, that 2020's models were secretly downgraded one full tier, so that for example a 2020 Q70T was not the equivalent of the Q70R from 2019 but rather the drastically inferior Q60R.

How do you know that device supports Freesync? Does it advertise that?

Yes. Furthermore, this support was ironed out satisfactorily in a firmware update sometime last year. But I feel I should now stress that what I'm actually after here is information that will lead me to a media player solution which plays back media at 48Hz and engages Freesync. I absolutely acknowledge that since this is not commonly sought (almost nobody even really cares whether or not they're watching their media at its intended framerate, for example), I'm not going to simply stumble across a how-to online, and that's why I'm asking here.

[usually_quiet]

I don't think there is such a thing as a media player that can somehow trigger FreeSync when playing a video with a constant frame rate. Also, since FreeSync is supposed to allow VRR video output from video games to display properly by allowing the video card to control the TV's/monitor's refresh rate, I don't know see how FreeSync could help you with video that uses a constant frame rate. Commercially produced video always uses a constant frame rate.

The Samsung QN55Q70RTV is supposed to have a panel with a native 120Hz refresh rate. If Windows' settings allow you to output the video's native resolution at 120Hz that should allow you to use the TV's PC setting to correctly display 24p video. (120/24 = 5, so at 120Hz you should be able to display 24fps video without judder.) If you must use 3840x2160 resolution for output then I guess that's a problem, because the TV and video card both need to have an HDMI 2.1 port for 120Hz at that resolution

[Asterra]

I don't know see how FreeSync could help you with video that uses a constant frame rate.

I outlined the particulars of my conundrum in the OP, but to summarize: Changing the target framerate on this TV to anything besides 29.97, 30, 59.94 or 60 Hz causes the TV to instantly drop out of "PC Mode", which in turn causes all of the following: Noise post-processing returns; crosshatch dithering returns; global dimming returns (Samsung has the absolute worst); the TV believes it needs to overscan—and almost none of these can be defeated outside of "PC mode." However, if I keep the "target" framerate at 60 and allow the VRR support to be what dictates the dip to 48Hz, I am fairly confident the TV will not "forget" it is in "PC mode".

The Samsung QN55Q70RTV is supposed to have a panel with a native 120Hz refresh rate.

It does.

If Windows' settings allow you to output the video's native resolution at 120Hz that should allow you to use the TV's PC setting to correctly display 24p video. (120/24 = 5, so at 120Hz you should be able to display 24fps video without judder.) If you must use 3840x2160 resolution for output then I guess that's a problem, because the TV and video card both need to have an HDMI 2.1 port for 120Hz at that resolution

As you suspected, in order to take advantage of 120Hz on this TV, I must use 1440p. Ignoring the negative and very noticeable impact this has on the image quality (thanks partly to the fact that pixels are no longer represented as individual units but instead "1.5 units", and partly to the fact that the maximum quality achievable by any upscaling is technically reduced by half), the real issue, I have noted, is that displaying a single frame for five frames at a time on a PWM-reliant display makes for very, very poor viewing. Compared to viewing media at 60Hz, it's essentially unwatchable. I would expect 48Hz to be at least as tolerable as 60Hz for the same reason 60Hz is very clearly better than 120Hz.

[usually_quiet]

Regardless, you are asking for video player software that has the ability to override the available Windows display refresh rate settings. I have never seen any that have that ability and doubt that they exist. TVs used to have other ways to turn off video enhancements and overscan than by using the PC setting. Too bad that is not still true.

[usually_quiet]

the real issue, I have noted, is that displaying a single frame for five frames at a time on a PWM-reliant display makes for very, very poor viewing. Compared to viewing media at 60Hz, it's essentially unwatchable. I would expect 48Hz to be at least as tolerable as 60Hz for the same reason 60Hz is very clearly better than 120Hz.

Your previous posts in this thread said nothing about picture defects caused by PWM at 120Hz.

[Asterra]

the real issue, I have noted, is that displaying a single frame for five frames at a time on a PWM-reliant display makes for very, very poor viewing. Compared to viewing media at 60Hz, it's essentially unwatchable. I would expect 48Hz to be at least as tolerable as 60Hz for the same reason 60Hz is very clearly better than 120Hz.

Your previous posts in this thread said nothing about picture defects caused by PWM at 120Hz.

And I never suggested that I'd previously made a note of it. Perhaps you are confusing the meaning of "I have noted" with that of "as I've previously noted"/"as I'd noted". There's an unambiguous difference.

[Asterra]

Regardless, you are asking for video player software that has the ability to override the available Windows display refresh rate settings. I have never seen any that have that ability and doubt that they exist.

It's not surprising but still disappointing. After all, games are obviously capable of engaging VRR at will. And it's not like VRR for media players would be something only I would find useful; being able to use VRR for media's native framerate would mean there'd be no need for the several-second pause while the display resyncs to a new target refresh rate. After all, I have never seen or even heard of a display that can swap from a 60Hz refresh rate to 24Hz with no visible pause (or e.g. without asking the user afterward if the change was acceptable), yet that's precisely what VRR is intended to do. Clearly, VRR as an option would be superior. This is the reason why I felt it was reasonable to expect this to be a feature of media players already.

Doubling 24Hz to 48Hz would have been a taller order, though I also felt this should have been on the table, as there are many display models out there whose VRR can't dip as low as the movie default of 24Hz.

TVs used to have other ways to turn off video enhancements and overscan than by using the PC setting. Too bad that is not still true.

This may be mostly a Samsung thing. They are unfortunately very anti-consumer when it comes to permitting control over the "features" they implement to disguise the shortcomings of LCD. Even turning off global dimming doesn't completely turn it off. I reckon the overscan just got packaged with everything else in Samsung's zero-user-control philosophy. I can't fault this philosophy, either; the relative handful of people who swear off Samsung forever for crushing starfields to oblivion, or making the screen perpetually brighten/darken when using subtitles, is probably trivial next to the majority who only see how "great" the black levels look when things are artificially crushed.

[usually_quiet]

the real issue, I have noted, is that displaying a single frame for five frames at a time on a PWM-reliant display makes for very, very poor viewing. Compared to viewing media at 60Hz, it's essentially unwatchable. I would expect 48Hz to be at least as tolerable as 60Hz for the same reason 60Hz is very clearly better than 120Hz.

Your previous posts in this thread said nothing about picture defects caused by PWM at 120Hz.

And I never suggested that I'd previously made a note of it. Perhaps you are confusing the meaning of "I have noted" with that of "as I've previously noted"/"as I'd noted". There's an unambiguous difference.

By definition, writing that is unambiguous will be understood as the writer intended. "I have noticed" would have been clearer or you could have left out the phrase "I have noted" and lost nothing meaningful to the conversation.

[Asterra]

By definition, writing that is unambiguous will be understood as the writer intended.

This assumes comprehension on the part of the reader. My clarification was not necessary as the sentence cannot be parsed to obtain the meaning you originally misconstrued—I provided it as a suggestion for what I suspected was an example of words being misread.

"I have noticed" would have been clearer

No. It does not carry the same conviction: "Noted" underscores documentation of something implied to be known already, which is more valid for the phenomenon in question; "noticed" is tentative, as though it was unexpected.

or you could have left out the phrase "I have noted" and lost nothing meaningful to the conversation.

No. Without specifying my observation of the phenomenon, there would be nothing whatsoever to indicate that I personally observed the negative visual impact, and it would appear as though I were merely trusting existing knowledge at face value.

[usually_quiet]

OK, I get it. You never make mistakes, except for buying this one TV.

My final advice is to find a TV that comes closer to meeting your standards for displaying 24p video and then sell, give away, or recycle the one that you have since your current TV's defects bother you so much.

[pandy]

That's why i'm avoiding Samsung product's as a plague - curious - did you ever tried to activate service mode and deactivate at least some "features" ?