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  1. Member
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    Hello everyone,

    I'm looking to convert my home movies to a digital format and I've got a few questions. I've been reading several threads on the subject, which have helped a lot, but I don't think I found the answers I was looking for.

    Heres the media and equipment I'm working with:

    VHS and 8MM tapes.
    Canopus ADVC-300
    Sony Handycam DCR-TRV350
    VCR (have to buy one still. Any suggestions?)
    Mac OSX computer with iMovie 6 HD for capture, then maybe Final Cut Pro X for processing (don't own FCPX yet)

    I bought the ADVC-300 to use for VHS capture and the Handycam because it was backwards-compatible with my 8mm tapes. The TRV350 model can hook directly to my computer via Firewire. I found that its analog-to-digital conversion works by using hardware to encode the analog signal from an 8mm tape to a digital signal, which is then passed on to my computer.

    I also found out that I can use the handycam to do the same to an analog signal coming from a VCR. This particular model also has a TBC and DNR built in.

    Now my main question is this: If the handycam can do that, do I need the ADVC-300 for the VCR portion of my project? I'm a total amateur when it comes to all this, so I don't know the fine points of difference between the two methods. This doesn't have to be a "pristine" job, just a "good enough" job. If so, I'd be willing to sell the ADVC 300 (as it wasn't cheap!)

    I understand also that the ADVC-300 has a lot of options I can work with to alter the image as its encoding. I'm not sure if this is useful to me just yet, as I understand there's a lot I'd have to learn to really take advantage of it. Other then the ADVC guide, anyone know of any good tutorials on how to take advantage of these features? I've used it a little bit to brighten up the image of test encodes, but its hard to do it without making it appear washed out. I've seen some good results with FCPX on this, so I may go with that method.

    Finally, after reading through this excellent forum for a little bit, I saw a lot of talk about capturing in a lossless format. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not able to do that using the equipment I have, right? Both the ADVC-300 and Handycam output in the DV format. Which I'm happy with more or less. It will work well for what I need it for. But if there's a way to capture lossless using my current equipment, I wouldn't mind. (It seems to me I'd need a different capture device and an 8mm player that doesn't automatically convert it to a digital format. If that's the case, I'm fine with what I have.)

    Thanks for any responses, and let me know if I need to clarify anything.
    Last edited by Link648099; 21st Dec 2014 at 00:12.
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  2. The main problem with using a camcorder as your DV converter is you have no control. If it works well and the colors, brightness, and contrast are good -- great. If not, there's nothing you can do.

    You can't capture lossless with your current equipment.
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  3. Member
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    Sell the ADVC-300 and use the Handycam. If you were to transfer a Digital8 tape shot on the handycam, it would be just that. A bit for bit transfer of the digital data on the tape to your hard drive which is encoded at DVavi. No different to transferring a file from an external hard drive to an internal one. Using the passthrough function on the camcorder will encode the incoming video into DVavi and then transfer it to your computer. The ADVC-300 does exactly the same thing but allows you to alter the video before it is encoded but, as you say you'll probably only make it worse anyway. Once you've got the DVavi file in your computer you can play around with it if you want but you still have the original, uncorrupted footage stored in as best quality as you are likely to get.
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    DV is not lossless. The "best quality" the O.P. is likely to get won't be DV with analog defects encoded as digital artifacts. The owner can have that if he wants it, but analog source to lossless YUV is probably best for VHS and 8mm analog tape archive. The owner has to make that decision. Another disadvantage of DV is PC-only playback, meaning that that color correction, noise reduction, or any standard output format for other than PC playback will require lossy re-encoding. Jagabo is correct: the equipment the O.P. is using won't capture analog source to lossless media.
    - My sister Ann's brother
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  5. Member
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    I never said it was lossless, I said DVavi is as good quality as he is going to get. With the two items he has, both encode an analogue stream to DVavi internally and transfer it to the computer over Firewire where it is a simple file transfer not a capture. If he was using a PC I would say to use WinDV to do the transfer as that is all it can do. Other software, including iMovie (I have no idea), may well be able to encode the incoming DVavi stream to something else on the fly, but that will always result in quality loss of some sort.
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    He can get losssless or close to it with ProRes. As he 's using a Mac he's pretty limited anyway. Lossy DV is likely the best he'll get with his gear, but you keep saying lossy DV is "the best". It isn't, not for the sources mentioned. DV fans seem to think VHS to DV will look like DV to DV. It won't.
    - My sister Ann's brother
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  7. Member
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    Thanks everyone.

    I'm leaning towards selling the ADVC 300, as Richard_G suggested, because the Handycam can do what I need it to do. I don't want to buy an analog 8mm player or camcorder, so the only thing I'd use the ADVC-300 for would be for VHS. Now if I remember correctly, the ADVC-300 has a built in TBC, right? And so does my handycam. Does anyone know about the quality of either?

    Like I said, I'm an amateur looking to do a "good enough" job, not a perfect one. I know that DV is lossy and for what it produces with the equipment (and expenditure) I have, that's fine.

    But if I wanted to do lossless, what equipment would I need? I have an iMac and Macbook that I can work with via Firewire 400. I'm not interested in purchasing or building a PC for this project. I have access to Windows XP and Windows 7 via VMWare Fusion 7, but I haven't tested whether I can use that setup to capture video.

    Ultimately, the goal is to burn these to DVD or Blu-Ray, but I also do not intend to get rid of my source files or tapes. I have long term plans for going all digital with my media, and I would plan to have these incorporated into that setup.

    I have another question regarding the use of iMovie, if anyone here is able to answer it. I understand that versions of iMovie after iMovie 6 HD use single field processing. Does anyone know if this is during encoding, or is only during outputting to another file format or DVD? As I understand the DV format and my current setup, there isn't any real encoding going on in the computer, but only the bit for bit receiving of the DV file from the camcorder/ADVC-300. So would that mean iMovie isn't actually altering the DV file upon receiving it, and only altering it during output?

    And if that's the case, wouldn't "capturing" be the same whether I'm using iMovie 6 HD or later versions of iMovie?

    Thanks again!
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  8. Originally Posted by Link648099 View Post
    Now if I remember correctly, the ADVC-300 has a built in TBC, right? And so does my handycam. Does anyone know about the quality of either?
    Since you've got both, take a short sample and use both -- see what the differences are.

    Originally Posted by Link648099 View Post
    wouldn't "capturing" be the same whether I'm using iMovie 6 HD or later versions of iMovie?
    No. Apple keeps screwing around with it and only someone who uses every version every day knows what the capabilities of each version are without looking it up. 6 is old enough it probably supports DV capture without re-encoding -- but double-check.
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  9. Member
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    Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    Lossy DV is likely the best he'll get with his gear, but you keep saying lossy DV is "the best". It isn't, not for the sources mentioned. DV fans seem to think VHS to DV will look like DV to DV. It won't.
    It may not be for the sources he has but it is for the equipment he has as you admit by saying it's the best he'll get with his gear. I use DV all the time but I'm using it to transfer footage shot on DV camcorders so it is the best I can get. Even then, it's only as good as the camcorder that shot the footage and there's a noticeable difference between footage shot on my old Sony VX1000 and my VX2100. I've used passthrough to transfer VHS but then the quality is affected far more by what is playing the VHS in the first place. Playing a cheapo VHS deck with composite out into a passthrough device is going to look pretty dire compared with playing it over S-Video from an SVHS deck.
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  10. Member
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    Originally Posted by Link648099 View Post
    Now if I remember correctly, the ADVC-300 has a built in TBC, right? And so does my handycam. Does anyone know about the quality of either?
    The handycam's tbc would be higher quality, assuming it actually has one. Forget the marketing hype about the ADVC having tbc -- it's hype, period. No one has ever demonstrated that the alleged ADVC tbc does anything.
    - My sister Ann's brother
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