Could I have a bunch of counterfeit Taiyo Yudens?

[blueshell]

I'm wondering whether I've got a bunch of fake Taiyo Yuden 4X DVD-R's on my hands,
or whether there's a less conspiratorial explanation for the problems I'm having.

I've just received a 100-piece shiny silver top tapewrapped stack from shop4tech
[DVD-R 4.7GB 1X-4X Silver Lacquer (#TAI-DVDRVAL/4X), mfgr code DVD-R47VAL600SK,
shop4tech item number 3007, Media ID TYG01]. The tapewrapped stack looks exactly
like this http://www.supermediastore.com/taiyo-yuden-4x-dvd-r-media-silver-matte-spindles.html,
which is Supermediastore's picture.

However, I cannot burn them at higher than 1X in my Plextor-708A, under either Windows 98
using Nero CD-DVD Speed v3.80, or Linux using growisofs. Burning at 1X produces perfect
disks (no I/O errors, and Nero's ScanDisc produces nothing but little green squares;
I've done 1 out of 1 perfect burns (at 1X!) on each of the two operating systems mentioned).
Burning at 2X, 3X (which Nero apparently downgraded to 2X automatically), and 4X produces
disks with between 5 and 50% red squares to ScanDisk, and which bomb out for its read speed
tests, and which cause I/O errors when read under Linux. The errors are typically a long
stretch of solid bad sectors, often starting about 5-10% of the way into the disk and
extending for 10-40% of the disk, with okay sectors everywhere else. (One test produced
all the errors in the last 500meg of the disk, though, and one test hung the machine after
already seeing 24% errors.) My failure rate on >1X burning is so far 6 out of 6.
[The Nero tests use the "Create Data Disc" function to put something on them to test;
the Linux (Debian) tests use growisofs reading from a 4.6G file on a fast disk on the
opposite IDE bus (e.g., disk & writer are masters on separate buses, w/no other devices),
so I'm reasonably sure that the Linux tests aren't simply falling behind.]

The same hardware burns CDs at the drive's maximum rate (32X or 40X or something), reads
CDs at 40X, and reads (good) DVDs at 8X, so I'm reasonably sure it's not a DMA issue or
anything like that.

The >1X burns produce disks whose dye shows clear banding, e.g., there's an inner band about
1cm in radius, then another band another couple cm wide, and then an outer band, each of which
has slight differences in color and/or saturation. I'm assuming that what I'm seeing is the
writer switching laser strategies, and I'm wondering whether the bad burns are associated with
where those strategy switches happen---especially because one w/only a few % bad seems to have
a mid-band that's only a few mm wide, whereas one with 50% bad has a very wide mid-band...
Although it's hard to be sure that this correlation matches. (Note that there are -no- visible
bands -before- the burn; I've been checking. It's only post-burn that there are any visible
changes in the surface.)

I have no particular reason to suspect the drive, but I don't have much data on it: I bought it
a couple years ago and have used it (until this week) only to burn CDR's, which it was fine at.
Before the first time I ever put a DVD in it, I upgraded its firmware from 1.04 (the shipped
version) to 1.10 (Plextor's current version on their website). I don't have another DVD-writer
to test against, but Plextor claims that TY media is on their recommended list according to the
Plextor website (http://www.plextor.com/english/support/media_708.html), and both they and
other reports on the net claim that this media certainly should write at 4X and may even write
at 8X.

I discovered the summary of good & bad vendors & media at http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
only -after- I received the DVDs, and I must say that the various reports of fake TY's have
made me a trifle concerned, especially given the poor performance I've seen so far. According
to DVDIdentifier, the ones I have claim a Media ID of TYG01 (the reports of fakes I've seen
claim TYG02, but I don't know if those were the only ones), and Nero wants to write to them at
4X by default, so I'm -assuming- that the write strategy speed indicated by the disks is also
4X (I don't have a copy of DVDInfo to check this since it's been withdrawn, and am not sure how
to extract that info from DVDIdentifier, if it's even possible).

The disks themselves have no logos, but I gather that that's normal for TY. The package looks
like the picture from another vendor (see above). Every disk has GD000314 stamped near the
lead-in area, and GA5 where the hub grabs the disk.

Any ideas on what could be going on here? The fact that I can't write to them above 1X, under
two completely different operating systems, seems to implicate either the drive or the disks,
but I haven't had any problems with the drive in any other regard (reads & writes CD's just
fine; reads DVD just fine, writes fine at 1X).

Because of the various claims people have made about shop4tech (I've burned a couple hundred
CDR's from them with very few coasters, but maybe their DVDs are different), I just ordered the
identical product from Supermediastore and will compare their performance when they arrive, but
that's at least a week away since I'm on the opposite coast. (I'm hoping that, if they perform
very differently, I'll be able to RMA the old set back to shop4tech, since it's only been about
10 days since I placed my order with them.) I'm hoping not to have to go to the hassle of
finding someone else with a DVD burner to try some of these disks there, and I'm -really-
hoping I don't have to order a new drive (maybe a 716 this time?) to burn these faster than 1X,
so any theories would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. Here's what DVDIdentifier had to say about the disk:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:TYG01]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Taiyo Yuden Co. Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [TYG01]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4,489.3MB = 4.38GB (4.71GB)]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
** INFO : Hex Dump Of 'Control Data Zone'-Block Listed Below
** INFO : 4-Byte Header Preceding 'CDZ'-Block Discarded
** INFO : Format 10h - Format Information Of Control Data Zone
0000 : 25 0f 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 26 12 7f 00 00 00 00 %........&......

** INFO : Hex Dump Of 'Media Code'-Block Listed Below
** INFO : 4-Byte Header Preceding 'Media Code'-Block Discarded
** INFO : Format 0Eh - Pre-Recorded Information In Lead-In
0000 : 01 40 c1 fd 9e d8 52 00 02 86 0d 13 66 78 80 00 .@....R.....fx..
0010 : 03 54 59 47 30 31 00 00 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 .TYG01..........
0020 : 05 88 80 00 00 00 01 00 06 08 0f 11 87 78 80 00 .............x..
0030 : 07 88 80 00 00 00 00 00 08 05 16 0d 0f 0b 0b 00 ................
0040 : 09 97 08 0f 0b 00 00 00 0a 00 00 00 00 00 10 00 ................
0050 : 0b 05 1b 13 a8 89 65 00 0c b6 89 88 80 00 00 00 ......e.........
0060 : 0d 00 00 d0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ............
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

...and here's what DVDInfoPro said about it:

Media Information
Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO
Media code/Manufacturer ID TYG01
Format Type UDF 2.16
Volume Name
Application id
Implementation id
Recording Date/Time (mm/dd/yyyy) 0/ 0/ 0 0:00:00
Format Capacity 4.38GB(4.71GB)
Book Type DVD-R
Media Type DVD-R
Manufacturer Rated Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.0x 2770KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 1.0x 1385KBps
Write Strategy Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
2x Speed OPC beta 08
2x Speed OPC power 0F
2x Write Strategy field 1 11 87 78 80
2x Write Strategy field 2 88 80 00 00 00 00
4x Speed OPC beta 05
4x Speed OPC power 16
4x Write Strategy field 1 0D 0F 0B 0B
4x Write Strategy field 2 97 08 0F 0B
4x Write Strategy field 3 00 00 00 00
4x Speed OPC beta multi-pulse 05
4x Speed OPC power multi-pulse 1B
4x Write Strategy field 4 13 A8 89 65
4x Write Strategy field 5 B6 89 88 80 00 00
4x Write Strategy field 6 00 00 D0 00 00
Data area starting sector 30000h
Data area end sector 231020h
Linear Density 0.267um/bit
Track Density 0.74um/track
Number of Layers 1

Complete Media Code
00000000 00 6C 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 52 00 02 86 0D 13 .l...@....R.....
00000010 66 78 80 00 03 54 59 47 30 31 00 00 04 00 00 00 fx...TYG01......
00000020 00 00 00 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 01 00 06 08 0F 11 ................

[lordsmurf]

TYG01 was never faked that I'm aware of.

And the problems you describe sounds system/burner/firmware related.

Not to mention shop4tech should be selling TY as TY. Were these sold as TY? Or as a "house brand" like Matrix or Sonic or some of their other junk?

[trhouse]

I had 100 TY's arrive last Tuesday from Supermediastore. I tested one the same way you did with DVDInfoPro. Here are the results,

Media Information
Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO
Media code/Manufacturer ID TYG01
Format Type UDF 2.16
Volume Name
Application id
Implementation id
Recording Date/Time (mm/dd/yyyy) 0/ 0/ 0 0:00:00
Format Capacity 4.38GB(4.71GB)
Book Type DVD-R
Media Type DVD-R
Manufacturer Rated Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps
Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.0x 2770KBps
Write Strategy Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
2x Speed OPC beta 08
2x Speed OPC power 0F
2x Write Strategy field 1 11 87 78 80
2x Write Strategy field 2 88 80 00 00 00 00
4x Speed OPC beta 05
4x Speed OPC power 16
4x Write Strategy field 1 0D 0F 0B 0B
4x Write Strategy field 2 97 08 0F 0B
4x Write Strategy field 3 00 00 00 00
4x Speed OPC beta multi-pulse 05
4x Speed OPC power multi-pulse 1B
4x Write Strategy field 4 13 A8 89 65
4x Write Strategy field 5 B6 89 88 80 00 00
4x Write Strategy field 6 00 00 D0 00 00
Data area starting sector 30000h
Data area end sector 231020h
Linear Density 0.267um/bit
Track Density 0.74um/track
Number of Layers 1

Complete Media Code
00000000 00 6C 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 52 00 02 86 0D 13 .l...@....R.....
00000010 66 78 80 00 03 54 59 47 30 31 00 00 04 00 00 00 fx...TYG01......
00000020 00 00 00 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 01 00 06 08 0F 11 ................

Looks identical to your disk. Here are the burn speeds,



and the error results,



I do not think the problem is media either or that these are fakes. I have fake 02's and they do not work well.

[blueshell]

Thanks for your results. I'll try my disks from Supermediastore when they arrive, and I'll also try to find someone with another burner so I can eliminate that as a suspect.