Ethical Question

[proxyx99]

So according to some it is OK to make a copy of rental DVD for future viewing. Question : when? What is reasonable?. How about this: Judge, I decided to view all of my 650 Blockbuster backups in 2015, no time now.
Judge says: Ohh, I see. That's fair. Case dismissed. And Son, don't forget to erase them afterwards. Sure Jugde, you've got my word.

If you think that this is how it's gonna play out, go full steam ahead.

Although some arguments were very convincing (!?) I'm a bit sceptical...

[SatStorm]

Okey, let me lead this to a new direction, 'cause it looks like the younger age users (expecially those in USA) don't see the whole picture clearly...


Years ago, I use to be a DJ. Until 2000, I use to buy Vinyl Records (and only vinyl records) for 2 reasons:

1 - Vinyl Records gives a feeling to the DJs, no CD or optical media ever will do
2 - I wanted to record on tape or CDs my own compilations, so to share them with anyone I knew. Free, a gift.

You see, the way I sew it, those compilations I burned to CDs (or write on tape), it was for me and anyone at the club sharing the experience, like a photograph. It was a audio reference to those nights, same way a picture of a Video of that night, was a optic reference of that night. And the mix complilations I made at my home, it was like a photo of mine from a photograph studio. So, giving to someone one CD of my compilation, was like giving him a photo of mine to remember me.

Those who are DJs, feel neccessary to share with anyone their programs. The way a DJ feels it, the CDs/Records, the music inside them, the mixers, the amplifiers, all those things related, are simply tools for THEIR creation. Because there is a creation to lead an audiance dancing and feeling the vibe, by selecting the music in order the dj determines (and probably combine it with light effects or anything else you can imagine, dancers for example).

Based on the laws, this is totally 100% illegal action. Based on anyone ethicks, it is a 100% ethical action. Why? Because of the porpuse of the action.
It would be a 100% illegal action, if the DJ use to sell copied singles, compilations or whatever, "as is" and obviously for a profet. And I say obviously, because I know DJs that copy their CDs and sell them, because they feel that this way, they help their music scene expended. I can understand this action, as a not profit one, but do others? It is questionable...

For me also, it is 100 ethical action, for a DJ to sell HIS program on whatever price he wish. Why? The way I see it is like this: You sell a rock to an artist and you copyright it. The artist sculp it and create a scalpture from it. What has the copyright of the Rock to do with the final scalpture? Well, based of the laws, the final result because it is based on something which was copyrighted before, belongs to the owner of the rock, and the artist if it sell it, is an illegal action. Other example at this direction is the painter: If there are copyrights on the colours, the canvas, the brushes, etc, the result belongs to who? To the artist or those who have copyright all those things?
Extreme examples, because they use old and 100% determine values, like the artist, the artistic result, etc.
But if we move those actions to new stuff, then the only thing that change are the "tools". But, because of the laws, the actions are "illegal" when they include video / audio and copyright material in what the "hardware" and "Software" words determine.

So, why the result of a music program from a DJ, belong to the record companies? Why it is an illegal action to sell? Why it is illegal for a DJ to record his program to CDs (copy protected CDs don't allow you to copy anything), so to remember their moments?
Hmm... Difficult question, right?
And don't talk about "Fair use". This is a USA thing: It doesn't exist in the rest of the world, and currently in Europe, the Euro DMCA don't count it in any terms...

Anyway, in this example, we all know what is legal and what is ethical.
I won't discuss it with any ******* who gonna try doubt it based on laws and other ashole stuff.

Let now move this on more modern terms and actions.

Let say, that I'm a VJ (Video Jockey), which is the new kind of DJs (clubs mixing videos insteed of music). So, I have my DVD Video Clips (from my DVD Video collections) and I mixing them, same way I did all those years with my LPs or my CDs.
I also record them on tape / DVD for the same reasons I used to tape my program few years ago. I gonna share, give, sell, whatever those tapes, same way as before.

Now, this is 100% illegal action As it was before. Is it ethical?

Well... Here is the big news

THE BIG ONES MANAGE TO MAKE US ACCEPT THIS ACTION AS AN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY EVEN IN AN ETHICAL ASPECT

And this is IMHO their biggest success....

They succeed after all those years, with their various teachings and blames and laws and bullshit, make us feel illegal doing what we ALWAYS did, with the previous media forms.

Their great success, is that they manage to change and determine THEIR way, OUR ethics on those actions.

In short terms, the average person gonna find it ethical to burn a collection of music hits for a friend but will find it unethical and totally illegal to burn a collection of music video for the same friend.


Why? What really changes on the action?
The media-nature of course.
And so?
The reasons of those actions remain the same, even if the media changes.

So, why we feel different?
Because there is a re - determination of our ethics regarding those actions.

The question here rises: From who? Who is responsible for this? Who manage to make us re - determine our ethics?

I only know 2 things that can determine a person's ethics.

His Religion
His Traditions

Well, the big ones manage to make a third determination...

Their interests

So, today, ethics are a combination of: Our Religion, Our tradition (and even not being traditional is a reaction against our tradition/religion) and ..... Their interests

To put it in other way, those big ones manage to make there selfs equal to Religions and Traditions the same way...

Do you know how this is called? Brain wash
Do you know who do Brain wash?

I'm not foolish to mention them...

When you realise this thing, this ******* whole thing, you really sceared. They took them almost 250 years, but they manage it... (250 years, it is not a typo...)

And now, a big apocalypse to all of you:
Once upon the time, there was the ghetoes... People back then, devided to 2 parts: those of the inside and those of the outside. Those of the inside was "sacrificed" for the rest, one way or other...
After ww2, the world devided to "US' and "Them". "Them" sacrificed for "US".
The last 15 years, there is no US and THEM. We are all "the same".

Bullshit: Today, we don't have to sacrifice someones so the solution was to turn the whole world in a gheto.
And that is the reality. We are all "sacrificed" for some asholes.

Our ethics change, our beliefs, our religions... We don't have Gods and Traditions to follow. THEY are our Gods now and they determine our traditions...

We are slaves and we don't know it...

[ChrO]

All they can do is Tax the media and give it to the movie studios. Isn't that what they did with CDr's?

In some countries they have yes. Canada is one I believe.

In Denmark we could, until december 11 2003, copy a DVD/MusicCD from a library or from a friend, they added a tax on all DVD/CD media, that the movie/music industry got.
But now they have changed it to meet the coming EU req. (You know "DMCA on steroids" as headlines in some articles named it).
But they "forgot" to remove the taxes, it is almost gone on CDs but it was left untouched on DVD's...
So thats why almost all Danes buy there Media in Germany.

Chr

[VinnySem]

Can I make a suggestion that scenarios and ethics be left off the forum ? It always results in fisti-cuffs.

It only leads to fisticuffs when immature morons "contribute" to the discussion. If totally untrue statements like "everyone that comes to this forum is a pirate" were not made, this would have been a decent discussion. Controversial topics SHOULD be discussed, that is the only way to bring about change.

[aflowers]

In case anyone is interested, I contacted my satellite company regarding the recording of programs. The response is that it is legal to record the programming as long as I do not distribute them. That was pretty much my understanding, but some of the opinions here suggested otherwise. At any rate, now I know.

Alf

[FulciLives]

WAKE UP CALL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jarvis1781]

WAKE UP CALL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

any particular reason to wake this thread up again?

[jimmalenko]

WAKE UP CALL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

any particular reason to wake this thread up again?

This is one of the funniest thread I have ever seen here.

Good work Fulci !

[RabidDog]

Its only illegal to "break" the CSS encryption where this is enshrined in law .. and many countrys have very hazy or no copyright laws . The DMC America applies only to USA (obviously). Downloading films may not be illegal, especially if they have been broadcast (FTA) in your area, but the person who has uploaded it is probably committing a crime. Copying a rented movie for later viewing is probably a crime in the sense that you contract to keep/watch the movie within a certain time-frame, otherwise further payment needs to be made. Netflix does have late fees ..they dont allow you keep their movies forever, do they?
re example drunk driving .. consumption of the alcohol is not illegal (even over the limit), driving of the car while over the limit is not illegal, but being drunk while driving on public roads is. The passion of the Christ movie offered may have been a church giveaway, who knows? 8)
There are many Saints here.. who have never copied or watched anything "dodgy"

[DaveS]

copying a rented movie is illegal b/c you had to break the encryption to do it. it doens't matter who you rent from or what their payment policy is - it's unrelated...(US) .. rent it or buy it, if you copy it, it's not legal

[Supreme2k]

re example drunk driving .. consumption of the alcohol is not illegal (even over the limit), driving of the car while over the limit is not illegal(HUH?!), but being drunk while driving on public roads is.

In the U.S., in most states/counties, you can get a D.U.I. merely for being in a car (in the driver's seat) while drunk. Driving the car while over the legal limit is definitely illegal everywhere. I know it is in the U.K. (maybe not Ireland, though )

Also, public drunkeness itself is illegal in many places. It just depends on the cop whether you get tagged for it or not.

[bugster]

re example drunk driving .. consumption of the alcohol is not illegal (even over the limit), driving of the car while over the limit is not illegal(HUH?!), but being drunk while driving on public roads is.

In the U.S., in most states/counties, you can get a D.U.I. merely for being in a car (in the driver's seat) while drunk. Driving the car while over the legal limit is definitely illegal everywhere. I know it is in the U.K. (maybe not Ireland, though )

Also, public drunkeness itself is illegal in many places. It just depends on the cop whether you get tagged for it or not.

Not if you are on private land/roads, in the UK anyway.

If you cause an injury to someone whne driving drunk on private land, then it becomes criminal negilgence (AFAIK).
Again, UK only and AFAIK.

[ViRaL1]

Netflix does have late fees ..they dont allow you keep their movies forever, do they?

Actually yes, Netflix would have no complaint at all if you kept their movies indefinitely, so long as you pay your monthly fee. This starts at $19.95 for 3 movies out at a time and goes up from there. I doubt they'd have anything to say if you held on to any 3 discs no matter how good they are if they're getting $20/mo out of you. At least with Neflix, no one can make the argument 'I backed it up because I didn't have time to watch it when I got it."

[RabidDog]

Supreme2k ..public roads not your own country estate!

ALso charging someone else to watch your movie discs is def a crime.. unless you have agreement from the copyright holder.

Now for a supremely hypothetical scenario.. I rent a non-copyright movie in a country where DMCA-like laws have no jurisdiction, that would not be illegal to copy IMO.

[indolikaa]

Mr. Valenti,

As a member of the videohelp.com community, one of the more interesting questions that has been asked recently has to do with rental DVDs. Many of the members rent DVDs, but the rental time limit is sometimes not convenient due to factors beyond their control. I myself have often wasted a rental because, as a reserve EMT in my community, the time I may have set aside for viewing the DVD is lost due to the 911 tones echoing through my police radio.

This has begged the question: would it be considered legal to copy the DVD in question to a rewritable DVD, view it when time permits, then erase the disc once the viewing has ended?

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Sincerely,

Indolikaa Khan

Mr. Khan,

I am in receipt of your letter. You should be receiving a knock on your door shortly after reading this letter, at which time the MPAA Anti-Piracy Enforcement Squad (APES) will be escorting you to Hollywood so that you can be tried and found guilty of copyright circumvention.

Your vain attempt to justify making copies of rental DVDs movies, and your supposed 'public service' role in your community, do nothing to change the fact that you are, like every other American, are a lying, cheating, copyright-infringing bastard. Once our APES are done with you, we intend to burn your house down, sell your wife into slavery, and piss on the very ground you used to call home, so that when your 25-year sentence is completed, you might remember that circumventing CSS is as serious a crime as compromising nuclear weapons codes.

I look forward to urinating on your sorry ass, you unrighteous consumer.

Jack Valenti

Mr. Valenti,

How nice of you to send your business associates to my ranch to discuss the finer points of Fair Use! I am flattered that you would take the time out of your busy schedule and allow me the opportunity to help your people better understand the average consumer's position in this matter.

Unfortunately, you'll be needing to fill some vacancies in your staffing, as someone failed to inform you that Arizona is a 'homestead' state. Thus, when your men casually ignored the "No Tresspasing" signs that dot the perimeter of my ranch, I was left no choice but to disable them with a few shots from my Desert Eagle .50 AE. At almost 200 yards distance, I'd like to add.

That being done, I also filmed the ensuing orgy that took place after your men were rubbed down with the urine of a female sheep and my trusty stable of Australian Blue Heelers were released from their pens. I plan on releasing the entire spectacle on DVD with no copy-protection schemes, and freely uploading the material on a variety of P2P networks.

You might consider sending a few band-aids and some Preparation-H with the next group of APES you deploy to the Ranch of Indolikaa. Your men aren't looking too good right now, although I can't complain. My dogs haven't been happier. And since you brought up the subject of my wife? She is doing just fine, thank you. I was a little worried at first, but she did call to inform me that your wife is the cowardly, thin-skinned, submissive bitch we all expected her to be.

Yours Truly,

Indolikaa Khan

[Sam Ontario]

There are still places that don't offer 5-day rentals?

There are many movie rentals outside of USA have only one day rental especially those new release and hot rentals.

[SatStorm]

You can't say, he asked you ethically...

[indolikaa]

You can't say, he asked you ethically...

Sure you can! So what if religion and politics is brought into the discussion?

[northcat_8]

I am in receipt of your letter. You should be receiving a knock on your door shortly after reading this letter, at which time the MPAA Anti-Piracy Enforcement Squad (APES) will be escorting you to Hollywood so that you can be tried and found guilty of copyright circumvention.

That being done, I also filmed the ensuing orgy that took place after your men were rubbed down with the urine of a female sheep and my trusty stable of Australian Blue Heelers were released from their pens. I plan on releasing the entire spectacle on DVD with no copy-protection schemes, and freely uploading the material on a variety of P2P networks.

DAMMIT, I knew I should have taken that MPAA Anti-Piracy Enforcement Squad position ...now look at all the fun I am missing

:P :P :P :P :P

[SatStorm]

You nasty boy!
religion and politics on Videohelp.com?

What you trying to do? Bring offtopic here and lock the place?

You are a bad boy... I'll tell Jack Valenti to punish you, the next time you gonna meet him in private

(ooops.. I also bring sex in post... sorry Baldrick!)

[FulciLives]

Indolikaa ...

My my my ... what to say?

You have been having much fun lately with VERY long convoluted posts where you seem to have conversations with other people.

You forgetting to take your meds again :P

Who luvs ya

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[indolikaa]

Indolikaa ...

My my my ... what to say?

You have been having much fun lately with VERY long convoluted posts where you seem to have conversations with other people.

You forgetting to take your meds again :P

Who luvs ya

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Vodka and Prozac. A winning combination.

[aero]

Who the hell is going to order 3 more movies the next day unless they are copying for their library.

anyone with two kids separated by more than a few years.