Rendering Problems in Sony Vegas Pro

[CaptainCatholic587]

Hello all!

I am digitizing and editing my cousin's wedding videos. They were married back in 2004, so the wedding was filmed on VHS-C tapes.

I digitized the tapes into mp4 files on my computer. The mp4 files look fantastic.

I am using Sony Vegas Pro 12 (I know, an older version haha, I'm poor!) to edit the videos. I have tried rendering the edited video using multiple codecs, but they all result in a lousy quality render.

Currently, according to Vegas, one of the codecs that matches my video is the "Sony AVC/MVC (*.mp4; *.m2ts; *.avc)" codec (the "Memory Stick SD NTSC - 6256 Kbps" template to be specific). While the render completes entirely, and while most of the render looks good, the problem is that random parts of the render have a very choppy and annoying frame rate. This happens out of nowhere - I have no idea what the cause is for this (the original mp4 file looks great in these places, and it appears fine when playing it in the Vegas timeline - the choppiness only occurs in the render).

Take a look at 1 minute and 7 seconds into the render here and you will see the choppy frame rate (although I will say it is less noticeable in YouTube's lower-quality version of it - but it's extremely noticeable on my desktop). The video starts off with perfect frame rate, and it goes back to perfect frame rate around 1:53, but is super choppy from 1:07 to 1:53:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hjrq2joH0c&feature=youtu.be**

I will post the Media Info of the original mp4 file below.

I played around with the codec settings in Vegas - I even set it to "render using CPU only" (I have experienced problems with GPU rendering before and was hoping that'd fix it, but no luck). But nothing works.

I have tried other codecs as well, including ones that don't match my project settings, but nothing will work.

Any suggestions would be enormously appreciated!! The edited videos of my cousin's wedding came out so good - now I just want them to be able to see it online and share it with friends! Rendering problems are so frustrating.

Thanks for any help!
Tony

Media Info:
General
Complete name * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: T:\DeGennaro Home Video Tapes\002 - Miscellaneous VHS-C Home Movie Tapes (2002-2008)\Afee and Steve's Wedding (Tape 1) (TD1).MP4
Format * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : MPEG-4
Format profile * * * * * * * * * * * * * : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : mp42 (mp42/isom)
File size * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: 6.24 GiB
Duration * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 32 min 24 s
Overall bit rate mode * * * * * * * * * *: Variable
Overall bit rate * * * * * * * * * * * * : 27.6 Mb/s
Encoded date * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : UTC 2020-04-14 13:46:35
Tagged date * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: UTC 2020-04-14 14:19:00

Video
ID * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 1
Format * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : AVC
Format/Info * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: Advanced Video Codec
Format profile * * * * * * * * * * * * * : Main@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC * * * * * * * * * : No
Format settings, GOP * * * * * * * * * * : N=1
Codec ID * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : avc1
Codec ID/Info * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: Advanced Video Coding
Duration * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 32 min 24 s
Bit rate mode * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: Variable
Bit rate * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 27.4 Mb/s
Width * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: 720 pixels
Height * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio * * * * * * * * * * : 4:3
Frame rate mode * * * * * * * * * * * * *: Variable
Frame rate * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Minimum frame rate * * * * * * * * * * * : 29.940 FPS
Maximum frame rate * * * * * * * * * * * : 71.090 FPS
Original frame rate * * * * * * * * * * *: 30.000 FPS
Standard * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : NTSC
Color space * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: YUV
Chroma subsampling * * * * * * * * * * * : 4:2:0
Bit depth * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: 8 bits
Scan type * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: MBAFF
Scan type, store method * * * * * * * * *: Interleaved fields
Scan order * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) * * * * * * * * * * * : 2.649
Stream size * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: 6.21 GiB (99%)
Writing library * * * * * * * * * * * * *: x264 core 148
Encoding settings * * * * * * * * * * * *: cabac=0 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x1 / me=dia / subme=1 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=7 / lookahead_threads=7 / sliced_threads=1 / slices=7 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=tff / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=1 / keyint_min=1 / scenecut=0 / intra_refresh=0 / rc=cqp / mbtree=0 / qp=16 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=0
Encoded date * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : UTC 2020-04-14 13:46:35
Tagged date * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: UTC 2020-04-14 14:19:00

Audio
ID * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 2
Format * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : AAC
Format/Info * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile * * * * * * * * * * * * * : LC
Codec ID * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : mp4a-40-2
Duration * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 32 min 24 s
Bit rate mode * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: Variable
Bit rate * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 140 kb/s
Channel(s) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 2 channels
Channel positions * * * * * * * * * * * *: Front: L R
Sampling rate * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: 48.0 kHz
Frame rate * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode * * * * * * * * * * * * : Lossy
Stream size * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: 32.4 MiB (1%)
Encoded date * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : UTC 2020-04-14 13:46:35
Tagged date * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *: UTC 2020-04-14 14:19:00

[babygdav]

1. Original looks like INTERLACED video, TOP FIELD first.
In your render, is it PROGRESSIVE?
Or interlaced?

If it's interlaced render and you mess up by picking bottom field first, you'll get problems.

For progressive, adjust project properties for BEST VIDEO RENDERING. You may need to change the deinterlacing method used. (I forget - blend, drop, etc)

2. Frame rate
Frame rate * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Minimum frame rate * * * * * * * * * * * : 29.940 FPS
Maximum frame rate * * * * * * * * * * * : 71.090 FPS
Original frame rate * * * * * * * * * * *: 30.000 FPS

That's weird. Should either be 29.97 drop frame or 30 fps non-drop.
Check project properties to make sure it's one of these two - start with 29.97.

3. Customize the memory stick template.
When you go to render and pick it, you can go into the settings to customize it.

Start by setting a high bitrate for testing. 15Mbps to 20.
Use constant bit rate.
Set the frame rate to match project settings - 29.97 to start.

Try a render of the first five minutes you see the issue in.

....
3. Does this occur with the raw video in Vegas?
New project, drop the raw video in, set project settings to match frame rate, render to test.

I'm suspecting here it might be the variable frame rate shown in media info. You might need to check. Push the video through handbrake.fr to rerender it as another mp4 file (you can use the standard preset).


Drop that into Vegas and render out to check. Still issues?

[CaptainCatholic587]

1. Original looks like INTERLACED video, TOP FIELD first.
In your render, is it PROGRESSIVE?
Or interlaced?

If it's interlaced render and you mess up by picking bottom field first, you'll get problems.

For progressive, adjust project properties for BEST VIDEO RENDERING. You may need to change the deinterlacing method used. (I forget - blend, drop, etc)

2. Frame rate
Frame rate * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Minimum frame rate * * * * * * * * * * * : 29.940 FPS
Maximum frame rate * * * * * * * * * * * : 71.090 FPS
Original frame rate * * * * * * * * * * *: 30.000 FPS

That's weird. Should either be 29.97 drop frame or 30 fps non-drop.
Check project properties to make sure it's one of these two - start with 29.97.

3. Customize the memory stick template.
When you go to render and pick it, you can go into the settings to customize it.

Start by setting a high bitrate for testing. 15Mbps to 20.
Use constant bit rate.
Set the frame rate to match project settings - 29.97 to start.

Try a render of the first five minutes you see the issue in.

....
3. Does this occur with the raw video in Vegas?
New project, drop the raw video in, set project settings to match frame rate, render to test.

I'm suspecting here it might be the variable frame rate shown in media info. You might need to check. Push the video through handbrake.fr to rerender it as another mp4 file (you can use the standard preset).


Drop that into Vegas and render out to check. Still issues?

Hey babygdav! Thank you so, so much for your response!! I am going to try everything you suggested - although before I do that, I'll just answer some of the questions you asked:

1) Yes, you're correct, the video is interlaced, Top Field first! I checked my project properties and the settings in the codec - the video is being rendered with an "upper field first" field order, so I think that should be ok, correct? I will definitely try changing the deinterlacing method though, great idea!! (Right now, it's set to "interpolate fields," but I have the option of changing it to either "none" or "blend fields.")

2) That's actually a great point, the frame rate is very weird according to Media Info!! Not sure why that is. I did check project properties, and the frame rate is set to 29.970, so at least that is good to go (30fps is not an option for whatever reason).

3) I will try customizing the template for a higher bit rate (the original template had a bit rate of 6,000,000 bps). Good idea!

4) No, this does not occur with the raw video in Vegas. It looks great when just clicking "play" in the Vegas timeline!

Great idea about pushing it through hand brake! I will try that if the above ideas do not work!

Thank you so, so much again for your response, this is extremely helpful!! I'll let you know how all the above solutions work out and report back for anyone else who may experience similar issues!

Thanks so much again!!!!!!
Tony

[CaptainCatholic587]

Hi again! I just tried the following options:

1) In "project properties," I tried setting "deinterlace" to "none" - no luck!
2) In "project properties," I tried setting "deinterlace mode" to "blend" - no luck!
3) In "project properties," I ticked off "adjust source media to better match project or render settings." No luck again!
4) Went into the codec, customized the template ("Sony AVC/MVC (*.mp4; *.m2ts; *.avc)" codec (the "Memory Stick SD NTSC - 6256 Kbps" template) and changed the bit rate to 10,000,000 bps, then to 16,000,000 bps. Still no luck!

So I am thinking your original hunch is right - I likely have to rerender it in handbrake as another mp4 file. I'm guessing I should use "constant" frame rate?

Have to get to bed now so I will do this tomorrow and report back! Thanks so much again for your help!!!
Tony

[babygdav]

I'd just handbrake it.
Handbrake is pretty good on vbr. Just slide that quality slider up. E.g.instead of 18, push it up to 10.

[CaptainCatholic587]

I'd just handbrake it.
Handbrake is pretty good on vbr. Just slide that quality slider up. E.g.instead of 18, push it up to 10.

Awesome - you know what, I'm going to just do it now haha - ok, I will try vbr and put the slider to 10! Thanks so much again!!!

[CaptainCatholic587]

I'd just handbrake it.
Handbrake is pretty good on vbr. Just slide that quality slider up. E.g.instead of 18, push it up to 10.

I just rerendered it in Handbrake, imported the file into Vegas and rendered it - you're a genius!!!!!!! It worked!!!!!!! Thank you so much, I sincerely appreciate your help!!! My cousin will be thrilled.

Thanks again and stay safe!!
Tony

[babygdav]

Great!