Can you passtrough to pc what minidv camera lens see with firewire

[mammo1789]

Hi guys

Is it possible to stream live picture from the camera mode (not player mode) of an mini dv camera Panasonic nv ds60 I read somewhere that some models can do it. What i wanna do is basically capture what my camera is seeing trough firewire in digital format and recording it with windv (without recording it on the dv tape my tape system is broken). I don't have firewire cable now. The camera has analog video input and you can use it as analog digital passtrough ( as some here do). But can you record what camera lens see it trough firewire. I tried it with Svhs cable in to analog tv card and it works but can you use firewire so you get digital dv file.

I am asking this because the camera says it can record ( probably on the dv tape I guess ) in progressive 24p mode and I plan to use it as real time 8mm film transfer.

Thanks

[racer-x]

It should work......I've done years ago with a Panasonic DV camera via firewire and recorded using WinDV. You should see what the camera sees in the WinDV display window.

I also did it with a HDV camera (Cannon hv20) using firewire and HDVSplit a few years back.........

Note: You'll have to disable the timed auto shut down feature in the camera or it will shut off on you.

[turk690]

Is it possible to stream live picture from the camera mode (not player mode)...

It depends on the camcorder. I have two ancient PAL DV camcorders; Panasonic NV-DS28 can be put in camera mode and what lens sees is available as DV stream out of the Firewire port, no tape. On the other hand a Canon MV400i will only output DV if a tape is inserted and record is pressed; no tape no DV out (though you can monitor, as there is analogue out). I have another oldie camcorder Sony DCR-HC48 (NTSC) but I've never bothered to find out what it can do in this regard.

[jagabo]

I am asking this because the camera says it can record ( probably on the dv tape I guess ) in progressive 24p mode and I plan to use it as real time 8mm film transfer.

Note that DV camcorders that support 24p usually encode that in 30i stream. So you will have to use software to extract 24p from the 30i frames.

[2Bdecided]

I am asking this because the camera says it can record ( probably on the dv tape I guess ) in progressive 24p mode and I plan to use it as real time 8mm film transfer.

without direct film to video frame synchronisation (i.e. 1 film frame = 1 video frame), that may not be the best mode to use. Depends what you want to do with it next. Plenty of 8mm capture threads on this and other forums.

Cheers,
David.

[mammo1789]

It should work......I've done years ago with a Panasonic DV camera via firewire and recorded using WinDV. You should see what the camera sees in the WinDV display window.

I also did it with a HDV camera (Cannon hv20) using firewire and HDVSplit a few years back.........

Note: You'll have to disable the timed auto shut down feature in the camera or it will shut off on you.

I bought firewire cable and the camera was recognized by the pc ( it is windows 8 64 bit by the way). Now I can see the camera live in windv. Altough the manual that i find it online says that only Panasonic nv ds65 can stream live in camera mode I have ds60 ( manual says that it should work only in player mode) and it works.

Note that DV camcorders that support 24p usually encode that in 30i stream. So you will have to use software to extract 24p from the 30i frames.

Can you put some example how to do that thanks Jagabo.

without direct film to video frame synchronization (i.e. 1 film frame = 1 video frame), that may not be the best mode to use. Depends what you want to do with it next. Plenty of 8mm capture threads on this and other forums.

Yes I know David but there is some workaround that with Videofred try http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144271 but i used http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=161493 and it is very good it finds duplicates it restores the 18-25 fps from the 8mm film and after that you encode in fake 25 fps and use dgpulldown to make it more natural.
The result is very very good ( for real time transfer ). I also use some neat video and camcorder color denoise in vdub ( which makes miricles on this setup).

One think that i noticed ( i never used dv camera before ) that the picture looks like it is compressed ( i know that dv is compressed but it looks more compressed like Mpeg2 stream. When I used the camera with Svideo and into VDub capturing with lagarith the picture is more "flat" or "uncompressed".

So one more question is the digitizing process ( when using camera mode) in mindv camera better then the old route I used digitizing trough PC TV card.
I expected that connecting it trough firewire i will have less noise but it seems that the noise is coming from the camera sensor instead of the connection used
What do you guys think?

[smrpix]

Two quick thoughts --

1) 24p on a DV camera is a "special effect" that degrades your temporal resolution. No point in using it in this sitiuation because it only gives you less to work with after capture.

2) Depending on the camera's circuitry, the "old" method MAY output the video signal prior to the digital/analog conversion and could very well produce a better image. No harm in testing.

edit: and 3) any chance you can get your hands on an HD camera to do this so you're not stuck with SD resolutions?

[Safesurfer]

This might be useful:-

https://www.videohelp.com/tools/Enosoft-DV-Processor

[mammo1789]

Avysinth reports error if i try to open DV file ( type 1 and type 2 ) recorded ether trough Ensoft Dv proc ether with win dv if I choose direct copy in vdub will preserve dv?

Dv is "new" experience for Me

1) 24p on a DV camera is a "special effect" that degrades your temporal resolution. No point in using it in this sitiuation because it only gives you less to work with after capture.

I turn it off didn't notice any difference

2) Depending on the camera's circuitry, the "old" method MAY output the video signal prior to the digital/analog conversion and could very well produce a better image. No harm in testing.

edit: and 3) any chance you can get your hands on an HD camera to do this so you're not stuck with SD resolutions?

It seems more noisless if I can say
Dv capture looks more sharp but like compressed I tried ensoft and it really did improve the quality i will post samples when I finish testing differences between analog ( video composite from another camera also looks good when captured in vdub with lags) and digital live camera stream.

Maybe as smrpix said it could be that svideo signal is direct from the camera source.

I think that camera alone ( lens what it sees) is analog in nature Im right?

[smrpix]

Avysinth reports error if i try to open DV file ( type 1 and type 2 ) recorded ether trough Ensoft Dv proc ether with win dv if I choose direct copy in vdub will preserve dv?

You don't say what your Avisynth error is, but you should be able to open your dv files in virtualdub without it (and without incurring the RGB color conversion it entails.)

VirtualDub can do a directstream copy of DV with absolutely no loss of quality --if no effects are added. Cuts are fine.

[mammo1789]

You don't say what your Avisynth error is, but you should be able to open your dv files in virtualdub without it (and without incurring the RGB color conversion it entails.)

VirtualDub can do a directstream copy of DV with absolutely no loss of quality --if no effects are added. Cuts are fine.

Will dv bff - lagarith YV12 ( fast re compress ) bff make seance i will filter the clip allot

The error couldn't locate decompressor for fourcc dvsd as on the picture notice that avysinth is wrongly reporting the frame size

Media Info for the file :

Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Commercial name : DVCPRO
File size : 79.4 MiB
Duration : 22s 160ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 30.1 Mbps
Recorded date : 2013-06-25 21:03:01.000

Video
ID : 0
Format : DV
Commercial name : DVCPRO
Codec ID : dvsd
Codec ID/Hint : Sony
Duration : 22s 160ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps
Encoded bit rate : 28.8 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357
Stream size : 76.1 MiB (96%)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 22s 159ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 024 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 32.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 2.70 MiB (3%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 40 ms (1.00 video frame)

recorded with windv

Ignore the first picture mistake


If I open with directshow everything is fine

[smrpix]

Hmm, I have no clue why avisynth is acting that way. The windv mediainfo appears to be an absolutely normal PAL DV. (16 bit 48Khz sound is more usual, but this is fine.) The speed of the recompression to Lagarith will depend on your CPU.

[vhelp]

dvsd is the fourcc for a dv codec.

although (in your case) i find it hard to believe, but it sounds like you don't have a DV codec installed.

to resolve, just download and install cedocida.

[2Bdecided]

Yes I know David but there is some workaround that with Videofred try http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144271 but i used http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=161493 and it is very good it finds duplicates it restores the 18-25 fps from the 8mm film and after that you encode in fake 25 fps and use dgpulldown to make it more natural.
The result is very very good ( for real time transfer ).

It's just the use of 24p, rather than 50i or 60i that I'm questioning. You may be lucky and it works fine, but usually more information is better. Depending on the speed of the projector and the camera's shutter speed, 24p can give you more blended frames than 50i or 60i (assuming you bob-deinterlace the interlaced footage of course).

I'm not offering certain advice because I've never made either approach work to my full satisfaction. Just making sure you realise there are alternatives.

Cheers,
David.

[mammo1789]

dvsd is the fourcc for a dv codec.

although (in your case) i find it hard to believe, but it sounds like you don't have a DV codec installed.

to resolve, just download and install cedocida.

Thanks I installed it and it works now. I have windows 8 64 by the way.

It's just the use of 24p, rather than 50i or 60i that I'm questioning. You may be lucky and it works fine, but usually more information is better. Depending on the speed of the projector and the camera's shutter speed, 24p can give you more blended frames than 50i or 60i (assuming you bob-deinterlace the interlaced footage of course).

I'm not offering certain advice because I've never made either approach work to my full satisfaction. Just making sure you realise there are alternatives.

Yes I know it wasn't my intent to use 24p mode at all, just once to test it but as I sad I didn't notice any difference on or off at least to my eyes. I use regular 50i mode

As my initial toughs about the impact of different connections on same recording on the camera and on the 8mm projector interesting thing is that I didn't notice any difference.

Take a look of the pictures side by side on the same frame ( looks like both pictures are in sync I wonder if we can use median 3-9 technic here and get god results because i think that noise ( scratches and spots are on the different places on different recordings).

Another interesting thing is that i read that there are cameras that can shot 24 pictures ( individual pictures recorded on the sd card) per second so it might be used as real time real sync recording from the movie projector and because there is no temporal movement there will be no problem with flicker and desynchronization of fps.